Japan copyrights law stopping Jpop to expand overseas?

I think it is the strict laws

they could earn so much smh

Is their law different from the rest?

I think it's because they stayed closed to the international market for too long. Now they're lagging behind. Albums are also very expensive. $12 for a single and $30 for an album is a lot. And this is without shipping.

overall i think Japanese media has "expanded overseas" just fine. it's weird to limit this discussion to a specific genre of music

I could be wrong on this,but from what I've heard from a few longtime j-pop fans :

Back when jpop was easily accessible in the early to mid-2000s,it actually took a toll on the sales.Ever since they implemented the strict copyright laws,the sales tremendously rose once again.

But then again,these are obviously different times,so who knows what could happen if they decided to cater to i-fans.

Quote from carrot-juice

I could be wrong on this,but from what I've heard from a few longtime j-pop fans :

Back when jpop was easily accessible in the early to mid-2000s,it actually took a toll on the sales.Ever since they implemented the strict copyright laws,the sales tremendously rose once again.

But then again,these are obviously different times,so who knows what could happen if they decided to cater to i-fans.

I don't recall j-pop being easily accessible in the mid-2000s.

I recall it being even more difficult than it is now.

Quote from Uni909

Is it because of the strict laws? Or is it up to the companies if they want to sell merch beyond Japan's border but they have no interest?

yes to both question

Jpop is all over Youtube.............

It has much more to do with Japan being a profitable and a large music market, and little to do with copyright.

K-pop needs the overseas fans, especially with how oversaturated the Korean music market is now.

Quote from Uni909

I know BabyMetal is popular amongst metal heads overseas. Not so much into them, but how are they promoting outside Japan? Two reasons why I made this thread:

A: I'm stanning now the new XG group and I wonder how accessable their merch will be.

B: Out of curiosity since I always hear it's difficult to stan Jpop groups and artists compared to Kpop.

one thing i always try to explain to kpop fans is you can't compare kpop to jpop because while all kpop is basically the same jpop varies wildly

Concerning babymetal, Japanese rock is fairly popular amongst rock fans all over the world, but jumpIng outside of music to other types of media. Japanese anime is more popular than anything that comes from that part of the world. Pokemon is literally the most popular i.p in the history of the world in terms of financial success.

Yes definitely, it also seen with other mediums like Animes or games where they changed their sentiments due to poor sales. Also, they are not really promoting overseas even when the song is dedicated for oversea fans (example: Arashi - Whenever you call). I am a longtime J-Pop/Rock fan and it was so hard to even get to see any mvs or anything. It still hard to get any information due to their strict limits. Japan is quite backwards when it comes to streaming and modern promotion

In my opinion, Japan sabotaged themselves with their strict isolations

And I say this as longtime fan of J-Pop/J-Rock. I even listened to it before K-Pop

Quote from katahtattat

one thing i always try to explain to kpop fans is you can't compare kpop to jpop because while all kpop is basically the same jpop varies wildly

Concerning babymetal, Japanese rock is fairly popular amongst rock fans all over the world, but jumpIng outside of music to other types of media. Japanese anime is more popular than anything that comes from that part of the world. Pokemon is literally the most popular i.p in the history of the world in terms of financial success.

K-Pop is also an umbrella term for a lot of Korean genre (like rnb, hiphop) while it’s true that J-Pop/Rock is versatile. Japanese anime is popular - yes but it was quite limited due to the strict limitations of a lot of studios and still is. It took a long time until anime was taken seriously and the studios tried to go overseas. For a long time, only insanely popular animes like Naruto and co. were easily accessible while the rest wasn’t. Netflix and Co. are a good way to shine light on the other animes but there are still a tons of studios who do not want their animes to be on any streaming platform.

Also, I wouldn’t say that anime is necessarily the most popular media steming from Asia when a) K-Pop and BTS exists b) games are much more representative and c) K-Drama and K-movies are heavily gaining traction (maybe K-Beauty too).

For games, Konami and Nintendo are literally sabotaging their own games by banning and copystriking a lot of famous streamer that are helping to promote their content. Nintendo started to counter these huge image losses by keeping it easy but Konami is still very much doing the worst out of all.

In my opinion, Japan’s softpower has decreased a lot through the years. Animes are very popular and have never been as popular as now but Japan was mostly seen as a perfect country and with Korea gaining a lot of popularity, I see a huge difference than a few years back. Mangas are still popular but webtoons are getting more popular and Korea understood it really fast. The sheer amount of apps where you can read legally (not illegally) Webtoons or the apps/websites where you can watch K-Dramas is outnumbering that of Japan. Imo, Japan needs to step up and get more towards digitalization. Different to popular sentiment, Japan is quite backwards when it comes to digitalization in certain areas and this is highlighted by the gaining interest towards Korea.

Quote from omegateatimer

In my opinion, Japan sabotaged themselves with their strict isolations

And I say this as longtime fan of J-Pop/J-Rock. I even listened to it before K-Pop

K-Pop is also an umbrella term for a lot of Korean genre (like rnb, hiphop) while it’s true that J-Pop/Rock is versatile. Japanese anime is popular - yes but it was quite limited due to the strict limitations of a lot of studios and still is. It took a long time until anime was taken seriously and the studios tried to go overseas. For a long time, only insanely popular animes like Naruto and co. were easily accessible while the rest wasn’t. Netflix and Co. are a good way to shine light on the other animes but there are still a tons of studios who do not want their animes to be on any streaming platform.

Also, I wouldn’t say that anime is necessarily the most popular media steming from Asia when a) K-Pop and BTS exists b) games are much more representative and c) K-Drama and K-movies are heavily gaining traction (maybe K-Beauty too).

For games, Konami and Nintendo are literally sabotaging their own games by banning and copystriking a lot of famous streamer that are helping to promote their content. Nintendo started to counter these huge image losses by keeping it easy but Konami is still very much doing the worst out of all.

In my opinion, Japan’s softpower has decreased a lot through the years. Animes are very popular and have never been as popular as now but Japan was mostly seen as a perfect country and with Korea gaining a lot of popularity, I see a huge difference than a few years back. Mangas are still popular but webtoons are getting more popular and Korea understood it really fast. The sheer amount of apps where you can read legally (not illegally) Webtoons or the apps/websites where you can watch K-Dramas is outnumbering that of Japan. Imo, Japan needs to step up and get more towards digitalization. Different to popular sentiment, Japan is quite backwards when it comes to digitalization in certain areas and this is highlighted by the gaining interest towards Korea.

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when i say all kpop is the same i mean in terms of like fast food, which in my opinion is a perfect allagory for kpop. there not all identical but It's really the same experience. every kpop group of any note was pretty much put together by some company following the "kpop formula" so if you ask me to check out a new kpop group i pretty much know what to expect even if the options vary slightly. i don't even have to count j rock to consider jpop much more diverse than kpop.

me saying Pokemon is the most popular ip of all time is not an opinion

List of highest-grossing media franchises - Wikipedia

hello kitty is a Japanese franchise too

Quote from katahtattat

when i say all kpop is the same i mean in terms of like fast food, which in my opinion is a perfect allagory for kpop. there not all identical but It's really the same experience. every kpop group of any note was pretty much put together by some company following the "kpop formula" so if you ask me to check out a new kpop group i pretty much know what to expect even if the options vary slightly. i don't even have to count j rock to consider jpop much more diverse than kpop.

me saying Pokemon is the most popular ip of all time is not an opinion

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/…grossing_media_franchises

hello kitty is a Japanese franchise too

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You obviously didn’t read my response lmao.

The first part:

Even though, the same as J-Pop: K-Pop is more than K-Pop groups and is an umbrella term for a lot of K-pop artists. The case that certain groups sound similar is also seen in J-Pop (example: there are/were a lot of AKB-like groups who sounded very similar active). But I agreed that J-Pop is much more diverse than K-Pop but your “kpop formula” argument doesn’t hold any power when you can find almost every genre in K-Pop.

Also Pokemon: I didn’t even mention it one time? I talked about anime?

Quote from omegateatimer

You obviously didn’t read my response lmao.

The first part:

Even though, the same as J-Pop: K-Pop is more than K-Pop groups and is an umbrella term for a lot of K-pop artists. The case that certain groups sound similar is also seen in J-Pop (example: there are/were a lot of AKB-like groups who sounded very similar active). But I agreed that J-Pop is much more diverse than K-Pop but your “kpop formula” argument doesn’t hold any power when you can find almost every genre in K-Pop.

Also Pokemon: I didn’t even mention it one time? I talked about anime?

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like i said all kpop groups of any note are pretty much the same. saying some perform different genres is like saying all fast food isn't the same because they make different types of food, but it is all the same formula and same experience. i get there are other music scenes in korea besides pop groups. they may all be wildly different, but this is a discussion about expanding overseas. only kpop groups belong in that discussion.

Pokemon is an anime.

Quote from katahtattat

one thing i always try to explain to kpop fans is you can't compare kpop to jpop because while all kpop is basically the same jpop varies wildly

I've noticed that quite a lot, actually. Kpop tends to magnetize towards one direction, whatever direction most groups are heading -- that leaves a lot of small artists in the dust as well.

The japanese music scene is quite diverse comparatively and (as a result) is quite hard to understand completely. I tend to just stick with artists names, for example, to keep things clearly defined: "is this artist's work or isn't this artist's work". (I've started to listen to Kalafina, Mirei, and Lozareena -- I'm still quite new so idk much about even the artists yet lol)

I guess Jpop doesn't share the same prestige values that Kpop uses. Korean Popular music seems to be a lot of a numbers game as well as using hype, visibility, and lowest common denominator marketing. Jpop artists seem to be more independent and genuinely experiment and invest into their music. (not that korean artists don't but it seems harder with many interlocks like company restrictions, seperation of artist, music writing, lyric writing, and choreography -- choreo isn't even requisite for song imo but it helps concert presence -- as well as just a more generally standardized content production)

TL;DR I got a little carried away (possibly) overanalyzing the situation but it seems that there are different doctrines within the music industries of the two countries and the laws are different as a result. (I'd think, though, to expand overseas, one would have to register content with either international copyright or in the target countries' copyright office right? --but then again the internet is fundamentally borderless and geo-locking is a new development rather than an inherent trait.)

Quote from omnimorphism

Is their law different from the rest?

I think it's because they stayed closed to the international market for too long. Now they're lagging behind. Albums are also very expensive. $12 for a single and $30 for an album is a lot. And this is without shipping.

Not by much. Indeed, I did scroll over the whole copyright law of Japan and, they were not many big differences aside from the prohibition to import oversea manufactured Japanese contents and the prohibition to circumvent the region restriction technology.

A CD of Japanese game for oversea market may be manufactured in China and sold at a much cheaper price to Made-in-Japan one. To import such CD into Japan is copyright infringement according to Japan's law.

Such CD may come with a code to limit it from usage in Japan and, if a person buy the CD and try to crack the restriction code to use it in Japan, that person also commits copyright infringement.

Quote from strawhatcrew

yes to both question

No to first question.

Quote from Kataphract

I guess Jpop doesn't share the same prestige values that Kpop uses. Korean Popular music seems to be a lot of a numbers game as well as using hype, visibility, and lowest common denominator marketing. Jpop artists seem to be more independent and genuinely experiment and invest into their music. (not that korean artists don't but it seems harder with many interlocks like company restrictions, seperation of artist, music writing, lyric writing, and choreography -- choreo isn't even requisite for song imo but it helps concert presence -- as well as just a more generally standardized content production)

TL;DR I got a little carried away (possibly) overanalyzing the situation but it seems that there are different doctrines within the music industries of the two countries and the laws are different as a result. (I'd think, though, to expand overseas, one would have to register content with either international copyright or in the target countries' copyright office right? --but then again the internet is fundamentally borderless and geo-locking is a new development rather than an inherent trait.)

J-pop idol fans always are keen on Oricon Chart. If you closely follow J-pop scene regardless of genre, you can often see the article on Oricon Chart.

K-pop can be very experimental, S.M especially. For examples,

"I Got A Boy" from Girls' Generation, which is a messy rhapsody of 4 different genres in one song.

The Kwangya shit and the ae-aespa.

Whatever that is released by Hitchhiker.

No. By universal standard sets by WIPO, copyright needs no registration and registration is mere a document evidence of copyright. If the person has any other mean to verify his/her possession of the right, the registration is not needed. The copyright is perceived once the work is created. Usually, the creator of the work is the right owner unless there is some conditions.

Quote from bzzz

No. By universal standard sets by WIPO, copyright needs no registration and registration is mere a document evidence of copyright. If the person has any other mean to verify his/her possession of the right, the registration is not needed. The copyright is perceived once the work is created. Usually, the creator of the work is the right owner unless there is some conditions.

So japan does run an unregistered trademark law?

that does give the question: does Japan have a Copyright office regardless? It seems a little laborious to have to prove a timeline everytime an IP dispute comes up. I'd think it'd be rather expedient to prove the timeline once to get it registered and use the registration as a certificate of copyright/originality.

Further, Although WIPO does stand at the forefront of IP protection, it doesn't necessarily hold legal authority; it isn't quite a patent office, despite its 193 member states approval. Its a forum first and foremost and to keep track of things, its a database. I do know that Japan is a member state of PCT but then again it isn't automatic as a safeguard against sovereign infringement, the country's native patent office would have to approve as well.

It just seems to me, that, without a proper registration of IP to be protected, it would be hard to create licenses for distributors and publishers to pay back the artists and labels in royalties. A license based off of "but I did it first" seems legally shaky at best.

Quote from bzzz

J-pop idol fans always are keen on Oricon Chart. If you closely follow J-pop scene regardless of genre, you can often see the article on Oricon Chart.

I know that there is still a lot of stat analysis in japan but from what i've seen, korea seems to do the "follow the trend" thing more than most

(that's not a bad thing, its just a side effect of how the cashflow works)

Quote from katahtattat

like i said all kpop groups of any note are pretty much the same. saying some perform different genres is like saying all fast food isn't the same because they make different types of food, but it is all the same formula and same experience. i get there are other music scenes in korea besides pop groups. they may all be wildly different, but this is a discussion about expanding overseas. only kpop groups belong in that discussion.

Pokemon is an anime.

Nah, heavily disagree with you. The fast food analogy makes no sense since fast food itself doesn’t follow the same formula. It’s just a lazy generalization. Your analogy would also make sense for J-Pop.

Well, you talk about the Pokemon franchise. While quoting it, you would need to know that Pokemon is more than their anime and mostly known for their games and trading cards, so your point?

Quote from omegateatimer

Yes definitely, it also seen with other mediums like Animes or games where they changed their sentiments due to poor sales. Also, they are not really promoting overseas even when the song is dedicated for oversea fans (example: Arashi - Whenever you call). I am a longtime J-Pop/Rock fan and it was so hard to even get to see any mvs or anything. It still hard to get any information due to their strict limits. Japan is quite backwards when it comes to streaming and modern promotion

It is true that Japan is behind in terms of digitalization compared to Korea. I mean Korea has a strong IT and adapts to things faster if you even use Samsung as an example. Go to each country and you’ll see that Japan isn’t so advanced and into the future as how people keep claiming. Still using fax, barely any cashless payment anywhere, no widespread use of 5g compared to Korea, no wifi on public transportation, no HD tvs on public transportation, less efficient subway system, saving ancient technology (lol), no general platform for their own artists to promote effectively overseas unlike Korea that has multiple, and etc.

Quote from omegateatimer

Nah, heavily disagree with you. The fast food analogy makes no sense since fast food itself doesn’t follow the same formula. It’s just a lazy generalization. Your analogy would also make sense for J-Pop.

Well, you talk about the Pokemon franchise. While quoting it, you would need to know that Pokemon is more than their anime and mostly known for their games and trading cards, so your point?

Believe it or not, a lot of jpoppies tend to generalize the entirety of kpop based off idols despite always complaining of how kpoppies generalize jpop based off akb48 and cute eccentric idols. Pot calling kettle black lol

Quote from Kataphract

So japan does run an unregistered trademark law?

that does give the question: does Japan have a Copyright office regardless? It seems a little laborious to have to prove a timeline everytime an IP dispute comes up. I'd think it'd be rather expedient to prove the timeline once to get it registered and use the registration as a certificate of copyright/originality.

Further, Although WIPO does stand at the forefront of IP protection, it doesn't necessarily hold legal authority; it isn't quite a patent office, despite its 193 member states approval. Its a forum first and foremost and to keep track of things, its a database. I do know that Japan is a member state of PCT but then again it isn't automatic as a safeguard against sovereign infringement, the country's native patent office would have to approve as well.

It just seems to me, that, without a proper registration of IP to be protected, it would be hard to create licenses for distributors and publishers to pay back the artists and labels in royalties. A license based off of "but I did it first" seems legally shaky at best.

I know that there is still a lot of stat analysis in japan but from what i've seen, korea seems to do the "follow the trend" thing more than most

(that's not a bad thing, its just a side effect of how the cashflow works)

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Copyright is not trademark nor patent. These are 3 separate things.

International trademark registration is a clause in CPTPP. I have no idea how the CPTPP has been up to.

I believe Japan does have copyright office. Still, the copyright registration will never be an absolute un-disprovable evidence. It is the evidence to be trusted unless there is a strong opposing evidence.

On the other hand, it will be very unfair if registration is needed to be protected by copyright law. A subject to copyright may not need any knowledge and a random uneducated person may create a work of copyright. For example, a high schooler may compose a song and upload it on Tiktok. What if the copyright to the song does not belong to him but a theft who registers it first?

WIPO is more of an agency to set the forum for various nations to discuss on a world standard regarding IP laws. Anyway, Japan is a member of Berne Convention.

Japan has set up the musical copyright royalty collection agency called JASRAC.

Korea is extremely collective to begin with, a sheep society of herd culture. Also, I guess Korean music industry landscape pretty much reflects the landscape of Korean economy. The backbone of Korean economic growth is the stated backed chaebol and K-pop is driven mainly by the Big 4.

I am no expert in J-pop but, from what I have seen, J-pop is very dissected and largely in the haze to foreigners. Rarely any foreigner can draw a clear picture of J-pop trend.

Quote from GoGoYoungeun

Believe it or not, a lot of jpoppies tend to generalize the entirety of kpop based off idols despite always complaining of how kpoppies generalize jpop based off akb48 and cute eccentric idols. Pot calling kettle black lol

Also, their perception on K-pop likely bases on few K-pop idol groups from big agencies, possibly from a decade ago.

Oh My Girl, aespa, (G)I-DLE are clearly different, aren't they?

Quote from GoGoYoungeun

Believe it or not, a lot of jpoppies tend to generalize the entirety of kpop based off idols despite always complaining of how kpoppies generalize jpop based off akb48 and cute eccentric idols. Pot calling kettle black lol

Yeah, it’s especially funny to see some J-Pop fans angry after K-Pop’s massive success in Japan recently

Quote from omegateatimer

Yeah, it’s especially funny to see some J-Pop fans angry after K-Pop’s massive success in Japan recently

It’s not even just jpoppies but actual Japanese people who despise the hallyu wave and are anti Korean too lol. Kpop is still niche there but nobody can deny that the amount of people who are interested in it has grown exponentially. It’s on its way to becoming a dominant foreign genre so this is why you have jpoppies showing their distain towards it or practically anything Korean, especially if it’s something that is worldwide popular (squid game, all of us are dead, bts/bp, etc). Just go on AramaJapan to see the same users active on that site over a decade ago lose their minds over Korean acts charting, receiving awards, or attending music shows.

Quote from GoGoYoungeun

It’s not even just jpoppies but actual Japanese people who despise the hallyu wave and are anti Korean too lol. Kpop is still niche there but nobody can deny that the amount of people who are interested in it has grown exponentially. It’s on its way to becoming a dominant foreign genre so this is why you have jpoppies showing their distain towards it or practically anything Korean, especially if it’s something that is worldwide popular (squid game, all of us are dead, bts/bp, etc). Just go on AramaJapan to see the same users active on that site over a decade ago lose their minds over Korean acts charting, receiving awards, or attending music shows.

Lmao i love those weeaboos who are triggered by every bts achievement and seriously write shit like “arashi is bigger internationally” like what are those people smoking

Quote from bzzz

Also, their perception on K-pop likely bases on few K-pop idol groups from big agencies, possibly from a decade ago.

Oh My Girl, aespa, (G)I-DLE are clearly different, aren't they?

From my experience, a lot of the times they don’t even bother to name the most popular ones or old ones but just go on a rant about Korean idols and lack of creativity, diversity, plastic surgery, auto tune, and other generalized nonsense. Yes, Japanese music has more variety to choose from, but that’s not to say that its Korean counterpart can’t offer variety. Korean music isn’t just all idols but it’s partly the fault of Koreans for mass exporting idol music instead of bringing light to their solo artists hence why the stereotype and generalizations persist.

Quote from omegateatimer

Lmao i love those weeaboos who are triggered by every bts achievement and seriously write shit like “arashi is bigger internationally” like what are those people smoking

Or making claims like it’s all Zainichi Koreans attending their Japanese concerts, only Korean Americans buying their tickets, the Korean government is sponsoring them, Korean government is lobbying foreign media/platforms to report about them and hand them awards, bots cheating on music charts, and etc LOL. The arashi claim is also ridiculous as hell

Quote from GoGoYoungeun

it’s partly the fault of Koreans for mass exporting idol music instead of bringing light to their solo artists hence why the stereotype and generalizations persist.

I don't think it is that wrong of policy. K-pop idol is unrivaled because K-pop is very idol focused.

If you watch J-pop idol scene 99% of them clearly are cheaper than K-pop counterpart and they aren't a dozen studios to produce online contents for them.

Also, the Korean uses its strong idol industry to support its various other industries. An idol in the drama to enhance its oversea marketing. The thriving K-beauty product and K-plastic surgery etc.

Quote from bzzz

I don't think it is that wrong of policy. K-pop idol is unrivaled because K-pop is very idol focused.

If you watch J-pop idol scene 99% of them clearly are cheaper than K-pop counterpart and they aren't a dozen studios to produce online contents for them.

Also, the Korean uses its strong idol industry to support its various other industries. An idol in the drama to enhance its oversea marketing. The thriving K-beauty product and K-plastic surgery etc.

Yeah and that’s the problem. It’s idol focused but doesn’t have to operate that way had a different approach been used. They’re depending too much on idols to promote Hallyu instead of focusing on other musical acts. This is why kpop to everyone only equals idols and nothing more. To think that Koreans are only listening to idol music have nothing else to offer in the music field is moronic in itself but this thinking is a result of their own over promoting and investing into it. Had they focused on spreading awareness to their indie artists, bands, trot singers, hip hop/rap artists, and etc things would be quite different and the genre wouldn’t have such a negative connotation to non Korean music fans. The accountability is just going to fall back on them in every scenario but those who don’t want to look past idol music choose not to in hopes of supporting and pushing a widespread generalized narrative.

Quote from GoGoYoungeun

Yeah and that’s the problem. It’s idol focused but doesn’t have to operate that way had a different approach been used. They’re depending too much on idols to promote Hallyu instead of focusing on other musical acts. This is why kpop to everyone only equals idols and nothing more. To think that Koreans are only listening to idol music have nothing else to offer in the music field is moronic in itself but this thinking is a result of their own over promoting and investing into it. Had they focused on spreading awareness to their indie artists, bands, trot singers, hip hop/rap artists, and etc things would be quite different and the genre wouldn’t have such a negative connotation to non Korean music fans. The accountability is just going to fall back on them in every scenario but those who don’t want to look past idol music choose not to in hopes of supporting and pushing a widespread generalized narrative.

But, this relatively small country managed to get something to make wave globally with this very approach. Which country else, with any different approach, sans USA can have the same level of impact? Germany has a far bigger music industry but, I don't think even 0.1% of population of my country knows a single German singer. Neither even 0.2% of that population knows a single Chinese singer debuted in the last 2 decade but Wayv or those former K-pop idols.

Quote from omegateatimer

Nah, heavily disagree with you. The fast food analogy makes no sense since fast food itself doesn’t follow the same formula. It’s just a lazy generalization. Your analogy would also make sense for J-Pop.

Well, you talk about the Pokemon franchise. While quoting it, you would need to know that Pokemon is more than their anime and mostly known for their games and trading cards, so your point?

that's nice you can disagree all you want, but most fast food places follow a genral formula and sell through marketing and providing a generic product. that's what the kpop that is sold overseas is. is there any kpop group known to overseas fans that wasn't put together by a company from a pool of trainies that debuted on tv. lets add a bonus. Are any of these companies not ran or founded by middle age men? My point is every one of these acts was formed with the goal of being mainstream for at the very least a national audience by people that pretty much fit the same demographic.

meanwhile there are multiple types of Japanese idol acts. some focus on mainstream while some are anti mainstream.

that's the difference.

of course korea has all sorts of music and a wide variety of musical acts, but focusing on what is sold to overseas fans which is idols. that's all the same.

Japanese idols or the music japanese companies try to sell overseas is not all the same.

you mention the 48 groups.

there's 6 acts that follow that formula and 9 total mega groups. your argument is because less than 10 groups share a similar approach, that's comparable to the entire kpop idol industry sharing the same approach.

by the way you would need to know every lucrative anime property is more than the anime. they all make money through licensed products including games and playing cards, so you pointing out pokemon does what they all do seems kinda silly.

edit

correction

I shouldn't say "everyone" or something similar. there might be exceptions, but that doesn't change my overall points.

Quote from katahtattat

that's nice you can disagree all you want, but most fast food places follow a genral formula and sell through marketing and providing a generic product. that's what the kpop that is sold overseas is. is there any kpop group known to overseas fans that wasn't put together by a company from a pool of trainies that debuted on tv. lets add a bonus. Are any of these companies not ran or founded by middle age men? My point is every one of these acts was formed with the goal of being mainstream for at the very least a national audience by people that pretty much fit the same demographic.

meanwhile there are multiple types of Japanese idol acts. some focus on mainstream while some are anti mainstream.

that's the difference.

of course korea has all sorts of music and a wide variety of musical acts, but focusing on what is sold to overseas fans which is idols. that's all the same.

Japanese idols or the music japanese companies try to sell overseas is not all the same.

you mention the 48 groups.

there's 6 acts that follow that formula and 9 total mega groups. your argument is because less than 10 groups share a similar approach, that's comparable to the entire kpop idol industry sharing the same approach.

by the way you would need to know every lucrative anime property is more than the anime. they all make money through licensed products including games and playing cards, so you pointing out pokemon does what they all do seems kinda silly.

edit

correction

I shouldn't say "everyone" or something similar. there might be exceptions, but that doesn't change my overall points.

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Well, you said that all of K-Pop is like that and just underlined your ignorance. Jpoppies are so funny, always fast to remind you that K-Pop stems from J-Pop but yeah sure J-Pop is sooo oh ho different. I don’t know if you realized it, I am an avid J-Pop/Rock fan. A lot of japanese pop bands follow the same formula (e.g. Jonny Entertainment??). And it’s not like every Korean act tries to promote overseas or tries to appeal to the Western audience. You are only highlighting that you have no idea about K-Pop while thinking that I have no idea about J-Pop which I can gladly reject since I own a lot of japanese albums, have been to Japan and listen to it longer than K-Pop. Your point is a lazy generalization just to feel a temporary superiority. This whole fast food generalization depends on facts that have nothing to with music and it is also another way to underestimate the quality and variety of their music.

Well, you talk about franchise. And then suddenly started to talk about anime? Also no: Pokemon is one of the few anime franchises internationally that has a strong following due to their games or trading cards. Animes like Naruto or One Piece have games but those are sub-brands (there is a special name for it that I can’t seem to remember) and are not as for Pokemon the reasons why people follow these anime. So, no it’s not silly. Give me a day and I can even add the Marketing term for it.

Quote from omegateatimer

Well, you said that all of K-Pop is like that and just underlined your ignorance. Jpoppies are so funny, always fast to remind you that K-Pop stems from J-Pop but yeah sure J-Pop is sooo oh ho different. I don’t know if you realized it, I am an avid J-Pop/Rock fan. A lot of japanese pop bands follow the same formula (e.g. Jonny Entertainment??). And it’s not like every Korean act tries to promote overseas or tries to appeal to the Western audience. You are only highlighting that you have no idea about K-Pop while thinking that I have no idea about J-Pop which I can gladly reject since I own a lot of japanese albums, have been to Japan and listen to it longer than K-Pop. Your point is a lazy generalization just to feel a temporary superiority. This whole fast food generalization depends on facts that have nothing to with music and it is also another way to underestimate the quality and variety of their music.

Well, you talk about franchise. And then suddenly started to talk about anime? Also no: Pokemon is one of the few anime franchises internationally that has a strong following due to their games or trading cards. Animes like Naruto or One Piece have games but those are sub-brands (there is a special name for it that I can’t seem to remember) and are not as for Pokemon the reasons why people follow these anime. So, no it’s not silly. Give me a day and I can even add the Marketing term for it.

feeling superior has nothing to do with anything. A streamedlined approach to making groups and marketing has made the kpop idol scene a lot of money. they should be commended for their intelligent approach, but i do think you might have comprehension problems. i clearly stated i was referring to kpop idol groups that korea tries to promote overseas.

therefore the korean acts that don't do this are irrelevant to the discussion.

i think the marketing term you mean is cross branding

Another term you should look up is hyperbole.

Pokemon is a multimedia franchise that began with games and testing cards.

I will not allow the anime degenerates to claim it.

and now the thread devolved to kpop vs jpop.. lol

Quote from katahtattat

feeling superior has nothing to do with anything. A streamedlined approach to making groups and marketing has made the kpop idol scene a lot of money. they should be commended for their intelligent approach, but i do think you might have comprehension problems. i clearly stated i was referring to kpop idol groups that korea tries to promote overseas.

therefore the korean acts that don't do this are irrelevant to the discussion.

i think the marketing term you mean is cross branding

Another term you should look up is hyperbole.

Why would I have to look up hyberbole? How is anything you wrote remotely a hyperbole? It’s a fact that not every anime is popular due to its sub-products while it is a whole franchise for products like Pokemon, Yugioh or Digimon?

Quote from katahtattat

when i say all kpop is the same i mean in terms of like fast food, which in my opinion is a perfect allagory for kpop. there not all identical but It's really the same experience. every kpop group of any note was pretty much put together by some company following the "kpop formula" so if you ask me to check out a new kpop group i pretty much know what to expect even if the options vary slightly. i don't even have to count j rock to consider jpop much more diverse than kpop

Well, that was your first reply. So where is the part where you clearly talk about their oversea marketing campaign? You added that afterwards but well let’s look at the last sentence. That’s basically what I was saying. Superiority complex at its finest. Also in your last answer, there was this section.

Quote from katahtattat

Are any of these companies not ran or founded by middle age men? My point is every one of these acts was formed with the goal of being mainstream for at the very least a national audience by people that pretty much fit the same demographic.

It’s so ridiculous to even call this an argument when in fact news flash almost the whole entertainment industry worldwide or the industries in general are globally run by middle aged men. Also, the second part, every act wants to get famous and mainstream. How is this not the case J-Pop? Make it make sense? Pop stands for popular music q.e.d. Music that is done to appeal to a big audience

Quote from katahtattat

A streamedlined approach to making groups and marketing has made the kpop idol scene a lot of money.

It’s seriously the Superiority complex that is talking now. J-Pop and K-Pop are not that different nor is the other better than the other one.

Quote from katahtattat

A streamedlined approach to making groups and marketing has made the kpop idol scene a lot of money.

The whole trainee system stems from Japan lmao

So let’s agree to disagree but fix that superiority complex of yours

Quote from omegateatimer

Well, you said that all of K-Pop is like that and just underlined your ignorance. Jpoppies are so funny, always fast to remind you that K-Pop stems from J-Pop but yeah sure J-Pop is sooo oh ho different. I don’t know if you realized it, I am an avid J-Pop/Rock fan. A lot of japanese pop bands follow the same formula (e.g. Jonny Entertainment??). And it’s not like every Korean act tries to promote overseas or tries to appeal to the Western audience. You are only highlighting that you have no idea about K-Pop while thinking that I have no idea about J-Pop which I can gladly reject since I own a lot of japanese albums, have been to Japan and listen to it longer than K-Pop. Your point is a lazy generalization just to feel a temporary superiority. This whole fast food generalization depends on facts that have nothing to with music and it is also another way to underestimate the quality and variety of their music.

Well, you talk about franchise. And then suddenly started to talk about anime? Also no: Pokemon is one of the few anime franchises internationally that has a strong following due to their games or trading cards. Animes like Naruto or One Piece have games but those are sub-brands (there is a special name for it that I can’t seem to remember) and are not as for Pokemon the reasons why people follow these anime. So, no it’s not silly. Give me a day and I can even add the Marketing term for it.

Jpoppies have been getting on my nerves for over a decade lol. Can’t have any conversation without one with this superiority complex, giving lectures about the supposed origins of kpop when nobody asked (that they seem to know better than actual Korean nationals who say otherwise as they’ve lived during the idol boom), and generalizations about the entire music industry. You can say the same happens with jpop but for the most part, kpoppies don’t know much about it to begin with unless they’re veteran fans so it can’t be really compared. Not every idol group cares for a western audience if they can get the attention of their own people which is where the longevity is lol. Being recognized in Korea is always the goal even if they’re a group with plans to cater to western audiences right out of the gate. Jpoppies love allowing Japan to take credit for the old and modern Korean pop scene but don’t want them taking the negatives that came with it (female exploitation, debuting underage idols, dating bans, rabid obsessed fans, facade image, and etc) so they’d rather project what they despise in a part of Japan’s music scene onto Korea’s to paint them in some sort of way lmao It’s becoming a redundant form of coping really.

Quote from bzzz

But, this relatively small country managed to get something to make wave globally with this very approach. Which country else, with any different approach, sans USA can have the same level of impact? Germany has a far bigger music industry but, I don't think even 0.1% of population of my country knows a single German singer. Neither even 0.2% of that population knows a single Chinese singer debuted in the last 2 decade but Wayv or those former K-pop idols.

I’m not undermining the industry and its hard work but the way they did things years ago and still today. Of how they can choose to promote other acts besides idols while they have the world stage but choose not to as idols are more profitable but is the reason why Korean music equates to music by idols to non Koreans when it’s not topping Korean charts as much as people believe it is. It’s generally fandom driven save for a handful of idols with gp relevancy. The approach was effective but can be revamped in a way.