About the Sowon issue....

Quote from samtanvan

Ma’am when did i say their isn’t a swastika? Did you even read what I wrote? Swastika wasn’t exclusive to the Nazis. It was a symbol of the German military before the Nazis even became a group. Should probably read the replies, the hat was also worn by german soldiers that fought with Americans against the Nazis. Does that make them Nazis? No, its a hat worn by all Visor Corps in the German military. The mannequin is wearing a Visor Corps uniform which is a generic German uniform before and during the existence of the Nazis.

PS. Swastika was used all over Europe actually, that’s why many countries who weren’t even apart of the Nazi Empire banned it.

I'm sorry but did you even read what I wrote? I said the Eagle on top of the Swastika was a symbol created and used by the Nazi party.

The picture of the hat was to show you the emblem on the hat, it was the eagle with the swastika, it was nothing to do with the style of the hat.

Quote from samtanvan

I completely agree with you in that Germany took full responsibility, because they should. Along with countries like Austria as well (side note: interestingly their ult right party has recently tried to push their evil past and present anti-semitism on Muslims, who at the time were praised for going above and beyond to “rescue” jews and some were also victims of camps, primarily Auschwitz). But it is highly incorrect to say every German should be held responsible for the Holocaust. I doubt their is a single historian that will say all german soldiers were Nazis, simply because that is highly untrue, if that was the case, the death toll would’ve been significantly higher because their would’ve been more manpower. The series of events that took place would also contradict the whole every Soldier= Nazi, because it makes no sense that troops of the Wehrmecht would fight the Nazis alongside American troops.

Also like to point out that, indeed that the Wehrmacht did play a role in the Holocaust but not in the sense that many Americans were incorrectly taught. Approximately 19ish million men served in the German military from 1935-1945, The SS had approximately 800,000 active personal by 1944 of which some weren’t even radicalized or you could say “forced Nazis”. Some were indeed radicalized but many were prisoners of war and came from countries invaded by the Nazis and were forcefully conscripted. Not to excuse them of their actions, they deserve punishment.

Though I am indeed a kpop fan, I really have no idea who Sowon is but the whole calling her a Nazi and proclaiming the mannequin is a Nazi is what took me for a loop.

Well, I'm an european muslim, my professor at the uni was a Jew, whose family was saved by muslims, we protected our Jewish community after the occupation, so yeah, I know all about it. But some of us also fought for Germany, willingly, my great grandad spent the war in a konz camp cause he didn't want to fight for them. History is never just black and white, but in this case it doesn't matter, I'll say it again, they fought for Germany, for their Führer, they are nazis, simple. Seems to me like we don't read the same books, nor do we learn the same history. German konz camps, such as Dachau were full of anti nazis since 1920's, they could have said no, stand their ground, but they didn't, it's their cross to carry, idc about them at all. Never have any of my professors tried to excuse any German soliders ever, nor do my German friends. Every German I know is just ashamed of that dark part of their history. No excuses, no ifs, no ors, nothing, too many people lost their lives for that. Why do you? I really want to know why are you so passionate about them? Honestly, I don't get it.

Wow

OP this ain't it. If you argued from the point of view that she did not see the small Swastika on the hat, that could be a passable excuse, because the big swastika armband is more commonly portrayed in the media.

But if you are saying she saw the swastika and still took a picture, then it's really indefensible. 99.9% of the people are not going to know the different factions inside the german millitary.

Quote from leni17

History is never just black and white, but in this case it doesn't matter, I'll say it again, they fought for Germany, for their Führer, they are nazis, simple.

The regular German soldier didn't necessarily choose to go to war. Armies were made of enrolled civilians who didn't have a say in going to war or not. It's weird you say 'History is never just black and white' and immediately follows by a very binary statement. But I agree, it's rather pointless to discuss if this soldier or that soldier was a true nazi or not.

Quote from Alex_Murphy

But I agree, it's rather pointless to discuss if this soldier or that soldier was a true nazi or not.

That's what I meant to say, thank you for pointing it out. Like I said in another comment in this thread, what matters is that they did fight for Nazi Germany, and that post war Germany took full responsibility.

Quote from Zazatwin22

In 2021 regardless of the swastika’s history of being for peace (for whom is the question) one should assume that the swastika is symbolic of Nazi Germany and its history of grave civil rights crimes towards MILLIONS OF INNOCENT PEOPLE.

I strongy disagree, especially in Asia where this symbol was widespread way before the Nazis took it for themselves.

Quote from Zazatwin22

Trivialization is not appreciated because it takes off the severity of the situation at hand and takes it off the fact that what Sowon did is NOT DISMISSABLE DUE TO IGNORANCE OF HERSELF, HER COUNTRY, or her accusers(not the best word but the only word i can think of in this moment) who were harmed by her actions.

I think trivilization is what you're doing right now by associating the genocide of millions with a random Asian girl taking a careless photo with a mannequin in a cafe, therefore throwing her in the middle of a shitstorm of epic proportions in the social media. We've seen how this kind of things can go and that's not pretty. But hey, that's just my opinion.

Quote from Zazatwin22

So in your personal opinion is what sowon did okay?

It doesn't look good is what I think. I already said it elsewhere.