Nevermind white-passing, what about white conformity in kpop

Quote from godkingteshub

The term Asian is derived from European perspective. Historically Indians, Chinese, Arabs, etc. NEVER considered themselves Asian until they were colonized by Europeans and they were conveniently lumped into one group for the benefit of Europeans. If you look at the traditional art and paintings from these cultures none portrayed people with blonde hair and blue eyes unless they were depicting people of foreign origin like Tocharians or Scythians. The popularization of blonde hair/blue eyes came from colonial and post-imperialism of Western white culture to the rest of the world.

You completely ignored my point but not answering anymore to a troll.

idols dye their hair in pink purple or even multi color like Jimin's recent look. Fairness in Asian countries is not about looking white but pale by their own standards because poor people used to work under the sun and were tanned compared to the wealthy people.

No doubt there maybe some superiority feeling when it comes to White people; but i think it's more because White people dominated countries are rich compared to other majority non White countries. Also Western media dominates globally; everyone around the world has grown up watching hollywood movies or listening to Western songs so their beauty standards of course got influenced by media.

Quote from bestofworst

idols dye their hair in pink purple or even multi color like Jimin's recent look. Fairness in Asian countries is not about looking white but pale by their own standards because poor people used to work under the sun and were tanned compared to the wealthy people.

I brought up the same point once in another thread, that it was a class thing, not a race thing; I got replied it doesn't matter, it's still the same and it's called "colorism". ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Actually west look yellow to me not white

I kinda get your point tbh. Colonialism in general has left the rest of the world to belive eurocentric standards are the epitome of beauty. Most countries still have that hangover.

Quote from jinaland

Actually west look yellow to me not white

We are indeed.

Quote from godkingteshub

it’s a different case, black hair is naturally present in all ethnicities

There's black people with naturally blonde hair...

Hair color isn't tied to ethnicity

Quote from godkingteshub

If we count rare exceptions then all white people should be allowed to make fun of monolids and wear afros, going by your logic

????? What in the world

Dude you have issues

Quote from godkingteshub

And kpop isn’t helping in that regard either. They are spreading it further and cementing it to the youth. They see these popular idols with blondish hair and blue eyes, shimmering white skin and faces tweaked to make them look less ethnic. In comparison, even Japanese groups do some eccentric styling they will almost always have their natural black hair and eyes, and don’t tweak their faces as much as kpop idols, so they most resemble regular people in their country.

Wow just wow

idk if you’re serious but this whole thread reeks white supremacy to me and you’re probably ignorant of it looking at the way you write. You probably thought of yourself “woke”.

Quote from godkingteshub

you should just get educated. there’s a prevalent attitude in the beauty industry that looking less like the traditional pre-colonial beauty standard of one’s own ethnicity is preferable to looking more closer to it. for example: monolid eyes aren’t preferred compared to rounder eyes in East Asia despite that thousands of years before European colonization, monolids eyes were representative of beauty because it was a natural feature of their ethnicity. Same with flatter noses. That was never an aesthetic issue in traditional East Asian cultures. But now, post-white European imperialism, the beauty trend is more prominent straight noses. Am I supporting this? No. Am I saying people shouldn’t look whatever way they want to? No. I’m saying there’s a social and cultural influence from European white culture that has imposed itself into ethnic cultures, and in this case it influenced their notions of beauty.

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Lmao I don't know why you call me uneducated when you are here spouting nonsense. You start a thread with demeaning generalized statement about a race you have very little understanding of.

Your points are the same crappy Western-centric, ego-boosting, superficial understanding of the East. That is why I can't help but laugh because people like you take yourself so seriously. Your type of statements are the one that get laugh at on Asian social media.

And to drive the nail in the coffin, monolid and flat nose? Is that your idea of what is ethnic-looking? Really? That tell me all I need to know on where you stand. Monolid was never considered as the standard of beauty. Neither is flat nose. And at one point, pale skin is the beauty standard WORLDWIDE even before East and West contact. Did history start in the 1900s and colonization for people like you?

Third, and it will be a hard pill to swallow for a lot of people here - blonde hair and blue/green eyes are just another type of aesthetic for Asians. The same way white people have taken certain "look" from other culture for fashions and entertainment, Asians find those type of trait fascinating and they don them as looks for "aesthetic". Asians do it when they in East Asia too and has nothing to do with wanting be white or to be accepted by white people.

Please stop drinking that kool-aid

About the culture part that you talked about.

You should change white people to foreigners instead because it's not only white people that have a different culture from them.

Quote from godkingteshub

So where did the plastic surgery trend for double eyelids, jaw shaves and rhinoplasty come from? Some random Korean just said “this is what you should get to be beautiful” and others just agreed?

so your answer to these questions is because asians want to look white and be passed as white?

funny enough you mentioned shave jaw when the beauty standard in the west is to have a strong jawline

is Asians double eyelid even remotely similar to Caucasian double eyelid? Do white people even think of themselves as having double eyelid before they get into or learn about Asian beauty standard? The Asian double eyelid is about folding the lid, whereas non-Asian double eyelid is due to the bone structure. Have you look into how South Asians, and South East Asian eye structure look? Or what about black and middle eastern that share very similar bone structure around the eyes to white? It is as valid then to say Asians want to be passed as black, latino, middle eastern, other asians by getting double eyelid surgery.

I can’t help but wonder if you’re not looking at this from a Western lens and assuming here. For example, many of the elements you’re listing here are about looking different or unique, but you are assuming them to be Western-centric because you’re thinking from a Western viewpoint and (I’m assuming) the impact Eurocentric beauty has had on Western minority groups.

That is definitely a thing (at least here in the U.S.), but I don’t think this is what is happening in Kpop.

For example, different hair color/eye color isn’t necessarily about seeming white, but rather because it’s different, rare and cool. To give two examples, in the U.S., the most popular hair color to dye is blonde. In nature, this is an uncommon hair color. People dye their hair this color to stand out and be distinctive to what they consider “boring” brown hair. Thus, within Kpop, this is another way to make them stand out - the same reason many American pop stars go blonde or add weaves/extensions.

Second example here. I have found, as a mixed person, that when I travelled to fairly homogenous countries or regions, I was often perceived to be more interesting or exotic because I looked so “different.” (That’s it own kettle of fish, but the point here is that it’s less about looking like “white culture” and more about looking different within the Korean culture.) It’s like the weird obsession I see lately with adding freckles to Kpop idols or even here in the U.S. by Instagram beauty influencers. Again, because it’s uncommon, people are in a frenzy to adopt it.

As others have noted upthread, whitewashing/pale skin and large eyes were beauty standards in many countries dating many centuries back so again, it feels like you’re applying a Western filter to the assumptions.

Finally, the oft discussed Korean beauty standard within Kpop often does not align with the Western beauty standard, as we often see on this forum, particularly around male artists. The visual in many of these groups is not the one talked about the most or often even deemed the most attractive in the group.

Many of the other areas here to me simply reflect doing business in a global world and are not exclusive to Kpop. When artists of all ethnicities go to other countries, they often adopt different mannerisms and behaviors that are appropriate the country or the show. Guests that are pretty PG on American late night talk shows get wild with their stories on the Graham Norton Show in the UK while having a cocktail. Similarly, an artist might adjust their banter, demeanor and look in a more conservative country.

As for working for white-owned brands or companies, again Kpop is a business. Why wouldn’t you want to model and work for who gives you the most money?

Quote from godkingteshub

You are thinking of more rare cases, of people actually want to pass as a white Caucasian person. Like this woman for example.

I'm talking about influence. Which is undisputed that white Western culture has influenced East Asian cultures a lot in the modern era. And this influence isn't from wanting to appear white, but influenced some East Asians to think that their natural features aren't "good enough". So they have to changed it with plastic cosmetic technology that initially developed in the West. And thereby it created a new set of beauty standards that pushed for more distinct features while rejecting their natural ones.

To reiterate: it's not about "wAntInG tO lOoK wHiTe", but not putting their natural ethnic features in the same rank as that of stereotypical whites/Europeans in terms of beauty. Regular East Asian people have been asked about it, and they say things like "whites are generally better looking, they have better features". I'm not making this shit up, this is them talking (see video for example).

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And there's even rich Chinese women who want to have babies with white genes. This is the influence that I'm talking about. That even native born Chinese who were raised in a very nationalist country and proud of their history and culture, would still look up to 'whiteness' to this extent.

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You need to organize your thought.

1. You said I was talking about rare cases, and you only meant by "influences", then you show me selective rare example of a Chinese woman getting a white donor sperm. I was unable to finish that article due to paywall but it talking about one 39 years old woman. I need more statistic to show that Chinese women overwhelming considered white sperm over Asian sperm for me to see a good example of what you meant by general "influence" and not rare cases.

2. Your thread was about Kpop or Korean in specific wanting to look more white to fit in or be accepted by white people. You pointed out green/blue eyes, blond hair, double eyelid surgery, pale skin - all traits you attribute to only whites. I counter argued that one of those trait are share by other non-white people. Now you said it's about "foreigner"

3. I already said that specific traits are considered as "aesthetic" to Asians. Have you walk the street of Korea, Japan, China, Thailand, Vietnam? Do you overwhelming see Asians having blue eyes contact or trying to be white?

4. Your conclusion that because of a few examples you hear from here and there, you reason that they must have done this because they reject their race's natural features. Have you forgotten that plastic surgery rate is relevant in all countries, even in white-dominated countries? Plastic surgery is very much a superficial - aesthetic leaning industry. Why do you insist that people get plastic surgery because they don't want to look like their own race and not because they don't like how they look? So what about white people who seek plastic surgery? Did they do that because they don't want to look white?

Your generalization is so problematic and shallow. It perpetuate again and again that Asians are self-hating, that everything they do is because they want to be white. I do not deny that due to certain political events that happened in the 19th century, there are some white worship in Asia. The admiration is much more to do with the economic, and political power, and military assistance that the US bring than how white people physically look. But you make a thread trying to be "woke" to say how "problematic" Kpop is by "trying to be white". Another day, another thread assuming that Asians are "self-hating" by selectively pick a few example out of a population of 2-3 billions. At this point I'm not even offended but I do laugh. I won't deny that some Asians people do like White features, but they only like the features on good looking White people. And not every white person is good looking.

I suggest you go live in Asia for a couple of years. Then you will know how people there really think about Western people.