Your favorite MHJ girl group (poll)

for me it's f(x), and it's not even close. I think their music and concepts always felt more experimental, like they weren’t trying to fit into a standard mold at all.

f(x). There is no question they are the best, as they were experimental and the girls' TRUE sister group (Sorry RV, but you were too slick for them lol)

Quote from Tatiana1820

Honestly, ALL MHJ girl groups are EXCELLENT!

From SES, SNSD, f(x), Red Velvet and lastly NewJeans - which I think was her magnum opus! Everything about NJ feels and looks ideal. Great team, music, production, individuality, visuals, marketing, brand, work environment (og one ofc) etc...

And you know what? Most if not all of MHJ ggs are my favorites of all time! SNSD team was the most lovebale and charismatic (with NJ). f(x) had the most unique style with the best albums, Red Velvet has the BEST catalogue of TTs and concepts and even SES actually have released some classic kpop gems.

But which group do YOU prefer and WHY?

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Hold the phone! When did she get involved with SES??? All I know is that she's close to the members...

Not people picking fx and Krystal is still flopping with her solo debut just last month.

I don’t believe it that fx was a favorite. Just overrated

Just so we're all on the same page, what input did MHJ have on each of these groups again?

Quote from jeyikal307

Just so we're all on the same page, what input did MHJ have on each of these groups again?

CD with all(?), bar NJ, who we all know who she was to them. Idk the relationship with SES.

Quote from JUSTVIBING

Not people picking fx and Krystal is still flopping with her solo debut just last month.

I don’t believe it that fx was a favorite. Just overrated

f(x)'s discography trumps ALL discogs by the others!

Quote from TikiTakiTokki

CD with all(?), bar NJ, who we all know who she was to them. Idk the relationship with SES.

She was the creative director of all these groups?

I don't think so.

Quote from jeyikal307

She was the creative director of all these groups?

I don't think so.

Okay, not all.

She was involved in album production for SNSD, and had some input with them (colour jeans. Yes, her obsession with jeans goes way back lol).

f(x) and RV were where she was definitely their CD, as she had to fund the Pink Tape artistic video herself, and got help from family to film it (Gramps had already given up on them by then).

As for SES, no idea about them.

Quote from TikiTakiTokki

Okay, not all.

She was involved in album production for SNSD, and had some input for them (colour jeans). f(x) and RV were whwre she definitely the CD for them, as she had to fund the Pink Tape artistic video herself, and get help from family to film it (Gramps had already given up on them by then).

As for SES, no idea about them.

This makes a bit more sense. SES debuted before she even joined SM, and she joined SM as a graphic designer.

I see her get a lot of credit for visual concepts for the most part, which is a limited domain. I know she did have the title of creative director, but I have no idea which groups that was for and what that role, in SM, entailed, given its monolithic structure at the time.

I think calling all of these groups MHJ groups is possibly insane glaze, but honestly, I don't know. Is she responsible for f(x)'s MUSIC? No idea! Does anybody know?

Quote from jeyikal307

This makes a bit more sense. SES debuted before she even joined SM, and she joined SM as a graphic designer.

I see her get a lot of credit for visual concepts for the most part, which is a limited domain. I know she did have the title of creative director, but I have no idea which groups that was for and what that role, in SM, entailed, given its monolithic structure at the time.

I think calling all of these groups MHJ groups is possibly insane glaze, but honestly, I don't know. Is she responsible for f(x)'s MUSIC? No idea! Does anybody know?

Personally, I would call a MHJ group those she was creatively involved with in succesive CBs, as she had her team, including Yemin Kim, involved with them, I think (defo f(x) and RV). Groups like SNSD and SES are not, IMO.

Those like Shinee, f(x), EXO, RV, and NJ, are.

Quote from Tatiana1820

She was their CD officialy yes. She was generally in charge of ggs in sm. I believe she had a bigger hand on them than on SM bgs where maybe lSM and Chris Lee had more hand onto.

Except fx/shinee which very more personal projects in my opinion. f(x) opus album Pink Tape was probanly produced by her (as a executive not direct music producer like with nj). sm didn't even want to finance that project.

BUT personally, i also suspect (another theory of tatty ) that she was a ghost producer as well and in charge/ co charge of the music alongside lsm etc. she couldn't take the credits because she just didn't have enough influence or power to do so, and because partially she liked to work and stay in the shadows .

I think the explanation behind how deeply connected/linked she is with SM musiciens, producers etc is because she actually worked with them privatly. They're not just names she knows, but very close connections, friends and loyal cowokers.

NewJeans was the first group she could fully claim. Well until Bango got mad at her success and started whining that he was also part of it or whatever. That's why i think she got so angry, she didn't wanted some other executive to appropriate her work anymore! She (allegedly) had enough of that sh*t for the past 20 years...

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Just to note for a mo, I think what she wanted to do is not repeat what happened with f(x) with NJ, hence why the girls owned the NJZ trademark.

I think that's what she wanted to do with the NewJeans trademark, but was restricted by HYBE being a majority shareholder.

The only time there could have been any involvement with S.E.S. was in 2002, with their fifth studio album, Choose My Life-U.

Uhm, sorry honey, but what the heck are you even talking about?

MHJ only have ONE group, NewJeans. I mean, sorry, she HAD one group. 🤣

She has "nothing" to do with the rest of your poll.

Quote from David33

Uhm, sorry honey, but what the heck are you even talking about?

MHJ only have ONE group, NewJeans. I mean, sorry, she HAD one group. 🤣

She has "nothing" to do with the rest of your poll.

Means unofficial. Ofc the others aren't "officially" her groups, but it doesn't mean they aren't "spiritually".

Quote from TikiTakiTokki

Means unofficial. Ofc the others aren't "officially" her groups, but it doesn't mean they aren't "spiritually".

I don't know why people think, just because she was a graphic designer and later a creative director in some cases, she was the MAIN Producer of these groups. She never created or produced a single song before NewJeans.

Like, I know she was responsible for concepts etc for multiple SME groups, but that doesn't make her or anyone the OWNER of those groups.

Tati must be running out of ideas about Bang Bang PD. 😂

For the record, I'm one of the few Kpop fan here who actually followed S.E.S. and she wasn't even part of SME when they already "disbaded".

I have found this, which is interesting, if not frustratingly vague

Again, there's a focus on visuals, but she says her duties went beyond those (but doesn't specify).

this bit struck out:

Quote

Back then, there was no recognition toward the importance of visual elements in the industry. Consequently, the lack of recognition toward its importance as a concept meant there could be no consideration toward it when allocating budget and time. It took an unexpectedly long time until I was able to make people recognize it as an indispensable strategy and concept within the industry. Despite my passion towards it, I recall that period as being a very tough time. That was how, in the approximately 10 years I was with SM before I left, the direction of their visual language came to be entirely reorganized around the method I had established. So I felt no reluctance about leaving the company. I felt like I had accomplished everything I needed to.

I'll be transparent as to why I'm raising this point here. I don't think this is an auteur industry, right? Most k-pop is collectively produced. And even then, I feel people engage with in different ways. When I think of most k-pop groups, zero visuals come to my mind, so for the groups listed, I think of Kenzie, Joo Young-Jin, and the outside producers like LDN Noise. That isn't to discredit the creative directors who influenced this music, whoever they are. Like I've said it before, 280's work outside of NJZ is not remotely similar to NJZ, and so I give a lot of credit to their sound in MHJ. But even looking at this interview, it seems like NJZ is the first time that everything aligned to her vision (the Korean word she uses in the interview is "Sayeon") outside of maybe Into the New World.

If we say that these groups are MHJ's vision, then people like Kenzie are flung to the periphery of that vision, given lesser importance, and, imo, that doesn't sit right with me, because when I think of groups, I think of what I hear, not what I see.

Tatiana1820, I appreciate the thought, but I'm not going to take a random youtube video as a source for anything.

I think NewJeans is her magnum opus because this is what she was building towards. It feels like there's a part of her previous group that you can see in NewJeans and everything just works. It also helps this is the group she started from the ground up and it changed the landscape of kpop.

Quote from Tatiana1820

david, this thread ain't for you

respectfully

What do you mean? I'm literally the fan of these groups since their debut, except S.E.S. 😂

I can't understand why are you still hyping up this witch after what she did to your girls. You should promote her for the Korean Spin-Off of "Orange is the new Black, starring MHJ and Bang PD.🤣

Quote from jeyikal307

I have found this, which is interesting, if not frustratingly vague

https://magazine.beattitude.kr…ject-minheejin-part1-eng/

Again, there's a focus on visuals, but she says her duties went beyond those (but doesn't specify).

this bit struck out:

I'll be transparent as to why I'm raising this point here. I don't think this is an auteur industry, right? Most k-pop is collectively produced. And even then, I feel people engage with in different ways. When I think of most k-pop groups, zero visuals come to my mind, so for the groups listed, I think of Kenzie, Joo Young-Jin, and the outside producers like LDN Noise. That isn't to discredit the creative directors who influenced this music, whoever they are. Like I've said it before, 280's work outside of NJZ is not remotely similar to NJZ, and so I give a lot of credit to their sound in MHJ. But even looking at this interview, it seems like NJZ is the first time that everything aligned to her vision (the Korean word she uses in the interview is "Sayeon") outside of maybe Into the New World.

If we say that these groups are MHJ's vision, then people like Kenzie are flung to the periphery of that vision, given lesser importance, and, imo, that doesn't sit right with me, because when I think of groups, I think of what I hear, not what I see.

Tatiana1820, I appreciate the thought, but I'm not going to take a random youtube video as a source for anything.

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I wouldn't believe anything she says, even if it's about the price of a cooked egg.

Quote from David33

I don't know why people think, just because she was a graphic designer and later a creative director in some cases, she was the MAIN Producer of these groups. She never created or produced a single song before NewJeans.

Like, I know she was responsible for concepts etc for multiple SME groups, but that doesn't make her or anyone the OWNER of those groups.

Tati must be running out of ideas about Bang Bang PD. 😂

For the record, I'm one of the few Kpop fan here who actually followed S.E.S. and she wasn't even part of SME when they already "disbaded".

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I think you're getting a bit het up about the producer shtick.

What constitutes the "owner" of a group? Who defines who is a part of who's group? These things have many interpretations.

For example, are KIOF and Close Your Eyes a part of Haein's group? Personally, I think they are.

Quote from TikiTakiTokki

I think you're getting a bit het up about the producer shtick.

What constitutes the "owner" of a group? Who defines who is a part of who's group? These things have many interpretations.

For example, are KIOF and Close Your Eyes a part of Haein's group? Personally, I think they are.

Well, it's pretty obvious. The one who debuted the group owns the group. Simple as that. Lee Sooman debuted these groups, he was the producer, and let's not even forget one of, if not the most important Producer at SME, KENZIE.

No, KIOF and CYE are not Haein's group either. Creative Directors doesn't own the groups, their job is to create concepts.

Quote from Tatiana1820

words of a willful victim of woman hating hybe tag pr propaganda

in truth the only one risking jailhole is that fraudpig

also to answer to jey as well, these sm ggs being mhj's groups doesn't stop them from being kenzies or other key sm creatives as well. indeed it was a collaborative project. even tho, i DO believe that SHE was the visionary and the creative DIRECTOR behind.

I don't envy your mind, it probably looks like this. Please t urn off that switch too. 🤣

Quote from David33

Well, it's pretty obvious. The one who debuted the group owns the group. Simple as that. Lee Sooman debuted these groups, he was the producer, and let's not even forget one of, if not the most important Producer at SME, KENZIE.

No, KIOF and CYE are not Haein's group either. Creative Directors doesn't own the groups, their job is to create concepts.

I'm not denying they are their groups, too, but I'm saying that the subject of "groups" can be subjective in of itself.

Quote from TikiTakiTokki

I'm not denying they are their groups, too, but I'm saying that the subject of "groups" can be subjective at the same time.

I don't think this is subjective.

Most people don't care about concepts, especially in the first 2 generation. She said this herself. Even today, people only care about music. You can create the best concepts ever, if the music is shit, no one's going to listen to it.

A creative director is kind of like a VFX artist. A VFX artist can make any movie look good, but it won't make the story better.

It's a team effort, and she had some parts in these groups, obviously, but her job was to put the cherry on top, basically.

Quote from David33

I don't think this is subjective.

Most people don't care about concepts, especially in the first 2 generation. She said this herself. Even today, people only care about music. You can create the best concepts ever, if the music is shit, no one's going to listen to it.

A creative director is kind of like a VFX artist. A VFX artist can make any movie look good, but it won't make the story better.

It's a team effort, and she had some parts in these groups, obviously, but her job was to put the cherry on top, basically.

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Whilst true, that's a pretty demeaning attitude towards creatives (which is shared by many).

GG/SNSD was, is, and always will be my personal Ultimate girl group.

i would say red velvet

Quote from jeyikal307

She was the creative director of all these groups?

I don't think so.

Bruv, don't interact with scumbags like that

You know the old Lie down with dogs phrase?

That poster is aa feral dog.

Quote from ThePhantomThief

Bruv, don't interact with scumbags like that

You know the old Lie down with dogs phrase?

That poster is aa feral dog.

Point taken.

Quote from Tatiana1820

Red Velvet not only has the best TTs and overall discography, they're also the ULTIMATE r'n'b QUEENS !

Thus is my own rv rnb playlist:

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i apreciate their cute side more, i like umpah umpah and birthday and sappy and zimzalabim. but i know you'll disagree with that.

Quote from jeyikal307

Point taken.

Oh, just ignore Phantom of the Opera. He's the type who'll have a gripe against someone until he's on his deathbed.

Already explained myself on the Ador v. HYBE thread via a quoted comment to him, with my reply in a spoiler, to not detract from the topic.