Not in korea lol
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Well, it's doing worse than Dynamite, Life Goes On, and Butter so far. Doesn't mean it's bad tho.
But above tweet shows it debuted?
They debuted inside top 100 on hour 2, not 1st hour.
Highest 1st day sales of all time (Hanteo)
Highest 1st week sales of all time (Hanteo)
best selling without a repack right?
I think a korean group surpassed a million with a repack
Repack? I don't think things like repack exist in Japan market lol. Cmiiw. Anyway this is a pretty old list, but this this the top 5 best selling album in Oricon (by Korean acts):
1. BoA Valenti 01/29/2003 1,249,197
2. BoA Best of Soul 02/02/2005 1,060,039
3. BoA Listen To My Heart 03/12/2002 931,742
4. Girls Generation 06/01/2011 872,401
5. KARA Super Girl 11/23/2011 746,681
When they think of TVXQ, they won't think of kpop, because TVXQ is a jpop act in Japan.
I never understand why ppl often brought up this argument whenever they want to prove how big TVXQ were in Japan tbh. I always feel like Japanese ppl think 'TVXQ=Jpop' have a lot more to do with the way TVXQ portrayed themselves in Japan, rather than anything else. I mean if all SNSD members can speak Japanese fluently, and they always talk&sing in Japanese whenever they appear on Japan TV, Japanese ppl will most likely think that 'SNSD=Jpop' as well imo (esp if they do it before Kpop got popular). Doesn't necessarily mean they're the biggest act ever or something, It's just the image they carry.
Unless you can do something significant internationally (e.g. Top 10 on BB100 or topping Oricon multiple times), domestic charting is more important imo.
If you still don't understand my logic, let's put it this way. BTS can sell more NOW than what Michael Jackson did in his heyday. But are we gonna say BTS is above Michael Jackson now? No we aren't. Michael Jackson is still Michael Jackson, the King Of Pop, regardless of what his sales look like compared to BTS.
BTS and Michael Jackson are from two different eras. While I'm comparing BTS and GOT7 in the same year 2015, when both groups are still active. So it's not comparable.
Comparing sales and charting from the same year/era is the most accurate&objective way to gauge someone's popularity at that specific time imo.
Display MoreI was talking about HYYH Pt 1. HYYH Pt 2 didn't come out until like the end of the year. You're really gonna tell me in general, BTS was bigger than GOT7 for the ENTIRE year of 2015 because they sold a lot for an album that dropped 1 month before the year was over? So ok, let's acknowledge that. By December of 2015, BTS > GOT7. But how about the previous 11 months? Granted I Need U did well. But is one song enough to determine an entire group's status? I mean, to some extent yes. But to say they ruled over GOT7, not exactly.
I mean Momoland Bboom Bboom did really well in 2018, but does that mean they were suddenly A List celebrity? Next to Red Velvet/Blackpink/Twice? I doubt it. It brought them recognition but there was still a wall between Momoland's status and the big 3 girl groups. We're here in 2021 and I don't think anyone will say Momoland is a top girl group. Clearly, having a breakthrough and a song that does really well doesn't always mean you've reached success, or surpassed your competition. Similarly, I Need U doing really well doesn't equate to BTS themselves being bigger than GOT7.
Although GOT7 debuted after BTS, but coming from the Big 3, ppl were already immediately paying more attention to GOT7. From their debut, GOT7 already got massive media and public recognition. BTS did not until 2016. Sales doesn't always represent a group's status. If you time traveled back to 2015 and interviewed random ppl on the streets, asking them to list the top 3 (currently active) boy groups...BTS isn't going to make it there. It was probably going to be Big Bang, EXO and Winner. BTS' popularity was limited to only within the fanbase, not the public. They have yet made a name for themselves/put their name out there.
Also, EXO definitely had the top sales in 2015. But I actually chose Big Bang as the bigger act of 2015 (this is coming from me, an EXO-L). Simply because how much people were impacted and listening to Bang Bang Bang and the other songs off the MADE album. Bang Bang Bang had more impact than any EXO title track in 2015, regardless of sales. Not everyone was jamming to Call Me Baby or Love Me Right but EVERYONE was jamming to Bang Bang Bang. I don't think EXO was the bigger act just because they had more sales.
PS: Even if we put this whole BTS vs. GOT7 debate aside. The user (flopppy) who I originally was having a debate with, was mentioning how I Need U was bigger than any EXO song from 2015. Can I just call bullshit on that. Call Me Baby was definitely more impactful than I Need U. And actually...Dope was the 2015 BTS song with the bigger impact. I wouldn't disagree if someone says Dope was bigger than Call Me Baby. Dope was the song people saw and were like "omg they are amazing performers" and that was the song that attracted a lot of BTS' international fanbase. More so than I Need U. You see? The "better sales/charting =/= the bigger song" also applies to BTS themselves.
Better sales and chart position does not 100% indicate a certain song is bigger than another.
Better sales and chart position also does not 100% indicate a certain group is bigger than another.
Sales & Charting and maybe survey like Gallup are the most objective measurement of popularity, things like
'Dope was the song people saw and were like "omg they are amazing performers"' are very vague.
Also, HYYH Pt1 sales by the end of May 2015 were 147k+, bigger than any Got7 album sales at that point.
Similar to BE Deluxe ver number
Bruh, BTS wasn't even acknowledged by Korea's general public until 2016. They were nugus in 2013 and 2014. They did not get a major increase in their international fanbase until 2015 (thanks to I Need U and Dope). And did not get a major increase in their domestic fanbase until 2016 (thanks to Fire and Blood Sweat & Tears). Finally, in 2017, BTS was able to solidify their branding and name (thanks to Not Today, Spring Day, and DNA). That's when they took over EXO's spot as the top group. Before then, BTS did not have as much of an impact, in either sales or popularity. If you think 2015 BTS was bigger than 2015 EXO and GOT7, then you are delusional. BTS didn't start out as a top group. Don't we all know that they had to slowly and gradually build their way up there? 2015 was definitely ruled by Big Bang and EXO.
BTS was clearly bigger than GOT7 in 2015.
- Better album sales :
BTS-HYYH Pt 2 (274k+) vs GOT7-MAD (91k+). BTS were the 2nd best seller after EXO in 2015
- Better Digital
On 2015 Gaon Year End Digital Chart : BTS-I Need U charted at #90, while GOT7 didn't charted at all
- Better Charting internationally :
BTS-HYYH Pt 2 chart on US BB200 at #171 and Oricon Japan at #15, while GOT7 never have any entry on US BB200 and on Oricon Japan their highest peak in 2015 was at #32 with 'Just Right' album
- Higher Youtube Views, I don't have the exact number, but by the end of 2015 BTS-Dope have more views than GOT7-Just Right
Display MoreYou can say DMUMT and The War can go head to head with each other.... Love Shot may give DMUMT an edge....
Every B-side in The War album went over 150K likes on Melon... The Eve being one of the most liked B-sides of all time...
Ko Ko Bop having high digitals....
Ko Ko Bop being the most streamed on Genie and Melon...
I think it's pretty big.
For me it's not just 'Love Shot', iirc DMUMT is their best charting album internationally as well. So, better physical sales, bigger hit song (arguable maybe), and better charting worldwide.
Display More
I don't think The War was as strong as their other era I mention above imo, I only put Growl, EXODUS, and DMUMT bcs
-Growl era (2013) - EXO biggest hit song
-EXODUS era (2015) - most music show wins for a single song by EXO (CMB/LMR, I forget), out of all EXO album EXODUS got the most Daesang, they did their biggest tour during this era as well
-DMUMT era (2018) - EXO best selling album ever, 'Love Shot' was a hit/pretty big and also it's their most viewed MV
By "cleaner", I simply mean that there's a dramatic shift in the number of wins achieved per generation in a given year, which is what happened in 2015-2016.
So for boy groups, I agree that the Third Generation started with EXO. However, for girl groups, many people say that it started in 2014 with the debut of Mamamoo/Red Velvet, which is what I went with here (since the graph is girl groups-only).
Oh yeah, I missed the word "GirlGroup" over there. Tho now I feel like I can't find that much correlation between that graph and the intial post in the OP. Since the graph is only for GG, while the post is taking account all artists (including soloist).
Yeah I think this relates to my post immediately above yours. The transitions between Gen 1-Gen 2 and Gen 2-Gen 3 were much "cleaner", while Gen 3-Gen 4 is much "messier". Perhaps the 4th Generation didn't really start in 2018.
I don't think the transition btwn Gen2-Gen3 is "cleaner" compared to Gen3-Gen4 tbh (if I understand the term correctly). At the beginning of 3rd gen, 2nd gen artists are still dominate as well iirc. Also looking at your graph, somehow it seems to indicate that 3rd gen starts from 2014? but I think ppl in general considered 2012 as the start of 3rd gen, yk I believe most ppl categorize EXO as 3rd gen group and they debuted in 2012 and their 1st win was in 2013 iirc.
Tbf, I think there are way more active 3rd gen acts compared to other gens for now. Gen 1&2 are either disbanding or on hiatus, Gen 4 only started in 2018 so 4th gen don't have that many artist yet Ig.
Display MoreI like it.....
A list of Nominees....
Criteria.... ?????
I'd suggest, from the 2nd Generation onward, so 2003 onward
* Topping the MNet or Melon Annual Charts
* A MNet or Melon Daesang
* 100+ Music Show wins from MBC, KBS, MNet and SBS
* 5+ number 1 Weekly Songs from either Gaon, Mnet or Melon....
So............................
Currently, the only group that qualifies for all of it is TWICE, BTS just needs to top the Annual Charts
That criteria seems pretty weird ngl. Also, seems to ignore other relevant metric like physical sales, touring power, international popularity, etc.
KARA bcs of Japan, their legacy in Japan alone is enough to put them inside top 10 imo.
For Sechs Kies, they used to be H.O.T direct rival during both groups peak, while Shinee never been a main rival for other 2nd gen BG on the list (TVXQ, BB, SJ). Also, I feel like Sechs Kies hit song are more recognizable than Shinee's in Korea, 'Sechs Kies-Couple' alone is bigger than any Shinee songs combined imo (I don't really have number/data to back up this claim tho).
