The more I think about it, the more I find terms like "international popularity", "global market" very vague.

streams because it is the current form of consumption of the western industry

the percentage of consumption that the artist has in certain countries

Quote from NEO

Those are also inflated by fandoms and some are pretty good streamers. Especially when it comes to achieving goals (100M streams, 200M and so on).

IMO, when someone says "x group is popular internationally" you end up equating said popularity to BTS' and BP's popularity and that's not very accurate. And that's what makes the word lose its meaning in the process.

The term "international" ends up being either VERY Western-centric or absolutely vague.

You're right about YouTube being easily manipulated, but some platforms like Spotify and Apple Music can give you a better idea of what's really going well with streams

example: kpop groups that had the most on-demand (paid) streams in the US in 2021

1. BTS

2. BLACKPINK

3. TWICE

4. Stray Kids

BTS and BLACKPINK are different cases, because they are groups that have a higher than normal popularity so I don't think they should be in comparison

Generally when it comes to global popularity, we talk about western markets because like it or not the industry is still very focused on America and Europe.

because there are groups that are big internationally (outside Korea) but that are big only in Asia such as China, Japan and SEA

example: Momoland and its hits on streams were all supported by the huge performance of the songs on SEA. So it wouldn't make Momoland invest in the West at that point if the song was performing well on SEA, right?

And indeed fan bases manipulate streams (as they manipulate other popularity metrics) but you know something performs organically when it's stable. So that's why ADs is not a valid argument to delegitimize someone's streams because despite initially boosting the numbers, it doesn't guarantee stability unless the music pleases the audience

It just translates to YouTube and Spotify popularity. Together they paint a decent picture of kpop fans worldwide. Idc if majority streams are SEA or USA.

(With China missing. So we can add QQ to get a more rounded view.)

Streaming is the easiest way. Spotify and YouTube are the best because they have numbers. Since Spotify Korea is dead, you can just take their numbers. For YouTube, you should discount streams from South Korea.

Sales are very hard to track globally. There's no way to discount Korean sales. You have to keep track country by country, only a few countries track sales, not all sales are counted, charts are in the local language.

Radio is the same thing. There's no global radio tracking. You have keep track country by country, a lot of times in their local language.

Now the global popularity threshold is the main question. There's no agreement on that. The fact is that other from BTS and BP, no K-pop act is actually globally popular. Globally popular songs got 1B views on YouTube a few years back, and now they get 1B streams on Spotify. On YouTube, only BTS and Blackpink managed that. On Spotify, only BTS.

To use local charts to determine popularity you have to understand the market of that country, so sales and radio are out of the question.

Quote from ISaidISaid

It just translates to YouTube and Spotify popularity. Together they paint a decent picture of kpop fans worldwide. Idc if majority streams are SEA or USA.

(With China missing. So we can add QQ to get a more rounded view.)

you can find out where the streams are coming from via the artist page on YouTube Charts

Stray Kids: México, Japan, US

EXO: Indonesia, SK, Philliphines

TWICE: Japan, Philliphines, Mexico

Quote from NEO

Aren't they part of the global market? Why do people single them out?

(Not saying it's your case, but I find it extremely off-putting how Kpop stans try to single out or make fun of groups' popularity in SEA/China).

So when people say "x group is popular internationally" that just means they are popular somewhere in the West? See, that's why I think the word loses its meaning, even though the market is Western-centric.

geographically? yea

for the music industry? no, because our music industry (as I said) is still very focused on what is successful in Europe and the US

for example: what is very successful in the US is usually successful in Asia, but what is very successful in Japan does not leave the country

Quote from NEO

6/10 countries are from Asia for Stray Kids.

BTS 7/10

It's not about the countries, it's about the volume, for example, only 4 k-pop artists made over 100M streams in the US last year

I guess promoting internationally means diversifying your fanbase and potentially earning more money in that region...

sure most of the international kpop fans are referring to mean Western and ignore everything else...especially the non-Korean asian markets such as CJ SEA which are all international

I guess kpop has grown a lot over the past few years and whilst I wouldn't know the exact numbers one might reasonably argue that for most groups international sales > korean ones

Quote from Litto

you can find out where the streams are coming from via the artist page on YouTube Charts

Stray Kids: México, Japan, US

https://charts.youtube.com/artist/%2Fg%2F11f3f_dy9l?hl=pt

EXO: Indonesia, SK, Philliphines

https://charts.youtube.com/artist/%2Fm%2F0h_dkd6?hl=pt

TWICE: Japan, Philliphines, Mexico

https://charts.youtube.com/artist/%2Fg%2F11btzyw8k4?hl=pt

Display More

Okay? I already know this? Isn’t it old news lol

It should also be taken into account that in most Asian countries YouTube continues to have good numbers while in the West streams are falling, for these Spotify and Apple Music have gained more space.

Quote from NEO

Yeah, I don't get why people try to belittle popularity in SEA or China. It's just so weird.

People are stupid. That’s why I specifically said I don’t care about where the streams come from lol.

Korea do use YouTube as well but yeah YouTube is so global it won’t matter.

Quote from NEO

I'd rather say x group has more "fans internationally" than say "they are popular internationally".

In my mind, it makes a whole difference.

If you just want to compare K-pop acts, Spotify and YouTube minus Korea is fine. But not everyone uses these two. JOOX is the biggest streaming platform in SEA. LINE Music is the biggest streaming platform in Japan. Tencent owns the biggest streaming platforms in China.

Quote from NEO

And 100M streams from a country is good enough to call them 'popular'?

for a kpop artist? yea

for an American artist? no

Quote from NEO

So besides BTS/BP we'll never find out other groups that might be popular, unless we want to spend a shitload of time trying to figure it out.

It's not worth the effort only for bragging rights.

The marketing and sales department of K-pop companies are the ones that should be keeping track of how popular they are in each country.

Most kpop groups get their streams from SEA and japan on spotify. Only bts, bp, twice, rv and txt have ever charted on usa spotify. I know some want to say yt is irrelevant because of ads but most of the time a popular kpop song will end up with higher yt views because of where kpop songs tend to be popular that is asia.

Quote from atropos

Most kpop groups get their streams from SEA and japan on spotify. Only bts, bp, twice, rv and txt have ever charted on usa spotify. I know some want to say yt is irrelevant because of ads but most of the time a popular kpop song will end up with higher yt views because of where kpop songs tend to be popular that is asia.

Wow not even Itzy or skz? Seems like txt is more popular here than I thought.

Quote from NEO

It's interesting to think how Spotify has been growing faster in Japan compared to SK.

I mean, they got into stream platforms not too long ago. They always seemed to be more against this type of music consumption.

there were investments for this to happen, mainly support from record companies

There's not any "popular k-pop group internationally" aside from BTS and BP, you have some groups with very solid fandoms depending on the country and that's a good thing; however, spotify and Youtube only tell a part of the story, music popularity goes up and down but that doesn't represent the potential of let's say your touring power, it gives an indication of how likable your music is for the casual fan, or how cool the MV is, or the viral component overall.

The term "popularity" on K-Pop is overused and overrated anyways, K-Pop groups survive and do well because of their fandoms, time has proved this again and again.

Also, people tend to forget Korea is not the only market where Spotify is barely used, China and Japan are also international markets, and on both of these their music streaming services are different.

Quote from NEO

I don't know why considering physical album sales is more profitable than streams.

Although touring in Japanese cities makes way more money than anything else. Dome tours every year are very common.

streams have become the form of global consumption… Even in Japan the physical is becoming a fan base product. In fact, it's funny how Japan jumped the digital age and went from physical to streaming

It's funny that digital (iTunes) only worked in North America, Europe and Australia.

Quote from Litto

streams have become the form of global consumption… Even in Japan the physical is becoming a fan base product. In fact, it's funny how Japan jumped the digital age and went from physical to streaming

On the age of SNS, streams can tell you how popular your music is, but the artist overall? Not really. We reached a point where you can see artists having songs with like 100M streams and barely selling out places with like 1,000 people, there are a lot of others measures that are more important so while you could say x artist is more popular than a different one because of streams, that would imply popularity barely correlates to success, specially on K-Pop when you not only have touring as a priority, but also physical albums, CF's and merchandising.

Quote from MakotoNijima

On the age of SNS, streams can tell you how popular your music is, but the artist overall? Not really. We reached a point where you can see artists having songs with like 100M streams and barely selling out places with like 1,000 people, there are a lot of others measures that are more important so while you could say x artist is more popular than a different one because of streams, that would imply popularity barely correlates to success, specially on K-Pop when you not only have touring as a priority, but also physical albums, CF's and merchandising.

…

preguiça de refutar em inglês. são 1 da madrugada