Seems like we can’t talk about certain things anymore. I hope everyone is doing okay and not letting the hate to the boys get to them too much
{𝕓𝕥𝕡𝕗} ⑦ Safe place
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I think AKP is really not the place for ARMY anymore and I'm thinking of quitting it all together.
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lawyer got banned again btw
wtf this is ridiculous
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I think AKP is really not the place for ARMY anymore and I'm thinking of quitting it all together.
Yeah after seeing what just happened I don’t think I want to be active here anymore
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well this might be the final push for me to leave akp
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Wait we have something in the works
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Honestly johnny you need to decide exactly what you want AKP's brand to be and stick to it I think? Come hell or high water, regardless of your personal preferences.
Is it the wild west of Kpop? Ad-Click-generating fanwar bait at all times? Moderationis complete biased-chaos that targets some and lets others be trolls freely?
Okay, then the fallout will be a terrible reputation, a general jerk-free-for-all and constant scandals when things like racism and other terrible behavior become standard, and since ARMY are targets #1 you'll lose the biggest fandom in the scene except for our solos, akgaes and other worst elements. (And likely many in affiliated fandoms, too.) But hell, you'll be free and a lot of people will be happy.
You might not like us, but we're the biggest feeders and influencers of the whole community. Lots of us like to keep on top of kpop and find it interesting. If we can't do it here we'll do it elsewhere.
Is it a spicy (fanwars will always be huge here, it is what it is) but informative hub for all of kpop, regardless of who you stan?
Okay, then moderate it fairly, evenly, let all your spaces be equally 'safe' and keep targeting us and BTS to private chats. This will save you lots of headaches in the future, and will make it a lot less likely that in a few months time AKP will become the nastiest kpop site around, with all the bigoted, disgusting, terrible people who just want a platform. That has legal ramifications too - If Fox News, OANN, Parlor, and Newsmax can't pull off letting lies and endless slander flourish, AKP definitely can't. There's too many people watching kpop these days, and fans yelling for companies to protect their faves. Also, the repercussions for ad revenue can be huge.
Just my two cents. I'll shut tf before I get banned. (maybe too late!)
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the main issue is that users openly bashed bts and a mod encouraged it. No other fandom and group was targeted on that discord like bts and it was very upsetting to see. That discord is public meaning anyone can access and I don’t thinking bashing like that should be allowed as it also gives a bad rep to the forums.
Users had really vile language in that discord and hateful speech that made army feel Unwelcomed and targeted. When we spoke about it in the guild none of us hated on anyone, we are just rightfully upset that behaviour like this is allowed to occur and even encouraged
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Honestly johnny you need to decide exactly what you want AKP's brand to be and stick to it I think? Come hell or high water, regardless of your personal preferences.
Is it the wild west of Kpop? Ad-Click-generating fanwar bait at all times? Moderationis complete biased-chaos that targets some and lets others be trolls freely?
Okay, then the fallout will be a terrible reputation, a general jerk-free-for-all and constant scandals when things like racism and other terrible behavior become standard, and since ARMY are targets #1 you'll lose the biggest fandom in the scene except for our solos, akgaes and other worst elements. (And likely many in affiliated fandoms, too.) But hell, you'll be free and a lot of people will be happy.
You might not like us, but we're the biggest feeders and influencers of the whole community. Lots of us like to keep on top of kpop and find it interesting. If we can't do it here we'll do it elsewhere.
Is it a spicy (fanwars will always be huge here, it is what it is) but informative hub for all of kpop, regardless of who you stan?
Okay, then moderate it fairly, evenly, let all your spaces be equally 'safe' and keep targeting us and BTS to private chats. This will save you lots of headaches in the future, and will make it a lot less likely that in a few months time AKP will become the nastiest kpop site around, with all the bigoted, disgusting, terrible people who just want a platform. That has legal ramifications too - If Fox News, OANN, Parlor, and Newsmax can't pull off letting lies and endless slander flourish, AKP definitely can't. There's too many people watching kpop these days, and fans yelling for companies to protect their faves. Also, the repercussions for ad revenue can be huge.
Just my two cents. I'll shut tf before I get banned. (maybe too late!)
We do moderate fairly and evenly, but everyone thinks they are the victim. The level of double standards and entitlement are off the charts. Everyone thinks they are being treated unfairly, but that is not the case.
Do you not see army slander other artists? You may not have personally, but almost everyone is guilty of this sort of behavior. Even in your own subforum, you are slandering your fellow users. That doesn't make it ok just because you are defending your artists. Two wrongs do not make a right.
We are trying our best, but really you all need to take a step back and realize all parties were in the wrong and are being dealt with in the same way.
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i would love to know why @s_song_calling_f and lawyer did to get a ban, please.
And I subscribe to NaomiBlue message, potential ban be damned. What exactly are we doing here on allkpop now? Bashing is allowed but not really, only selectively. Bashing users the same. A whole discord channel promoted only for ARMY users and BTS to be dragged left and right. And the moment they defend themselves and BTS, they're called toxic.
If Allkpop doesn't need ARMYs anymore, just tell us plainly. We're not ones to come where we're unwelcomed. And either Allkpop continues to be the bashing fest it was pre-revamp, or you moderate fairly and equally, both in the forum AND in the discord.
the ARMY community here on Allkpop was willing to give it a chance after the revamp, because we hoped it would become a more neutral place, where all could enjoy KPop equally. Take a good, objective look at the threads that were made pre-revamp, and see how many were non-ARMYs dragging BTS, shading ARMYs etc. We had hopes for something better. If this ain't it, then it would help to know it upfront.
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Now that I'm caught up on everything. We are organizing an email campaign to send to Big Hit as well as spreading the words on twitter that this AKP website is allowing public slander and defamation of BTS to unimaginable scales, including malicious bashing of the members, false accusations of plagiarism, etc. Pages after pages of nonstop bashing and false rumours targeting the members individually. Pretty nasty stuff if you ask me and of legal magnitude.
I will message you all the details. Thanks!
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We do moderate fairly and evenly, but everyone thinks they are the victim. The level of double standards and entitlement are off the charts. Everyone thinks they are being treated unfairly, but that is not the case.
Do you not see army slander other artists? You may not have personally, but almost everyone is guilty of this sort of behavior. Even in your own subforum, you are slandering your fellow users. That doesn't make it ok just because you are defending your artists. Two wrongs do not make a right.
We are trying our best, but really you all need to take a step back and realize all parties were in the wrong and are being dealt with in the same way.
Just a question really: So if a MOD encourage the bashing, was that okay? How is that fair and even?
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We do moderate fairly and evenly, but everyone thinks they are the victim. The level of double standards and entitlement are off the charts. Everyone thinks they are being treated unfairly, but that is not the case.
Do you not see army slander other artists? You may not have personally, but almost everyone is guilty of this sort of behavior. Even in your own subforum, you are slandering your fellow users. That doesn't make it ok just because you are defending your artists. Two wrongs do not make a right.
We are trying our best, but really you all need to take a step back and realize all parties were in the wrong and are being dealt with in the same way.
The threads made today have only been about the discord and that hate that was allowed to spew. No army was even active much in that discord because we knew we were unwelcomed.
I also don’t see where we hated today on users other than bring attention to the hate we saw and we didn’t even mention anyone by name but just mention the awful behaviour. I stand by the statement that I don’t think we did much wrong today but bring attention to what was upsetting many users
Also about the doxxing. If something is on a public forum it isn’t doxxing
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the main issue is that users openly bashed bts and a mod encouraged it. No other fandom and group was targeted on that discord like bts and it was very upsetting to see. That discord is public meaning anyone can access and I don’t thinking bashing like that should be allowed as it also gives a bad rep to the forums.
Users had really vile language in that discord and hateful speech that made army feel Unwelcomed and targeted. When we spoke about it in the guild none of us hated on anyone, we are just rightfully upset that behaviour like this is allowed to occur and even encouraged
I looked into that and I know exactly which mod you are referring you. His words were taken out of context and he made a mistake, but nowhere do we allow open bashing.
As for feeling unwelcomed, you guys have the biggest fandom by far and can easily overrun any server. I understand some people wrote unflavorful things, but invading the discord server to ss and doxx the other users was not the right method of action.
Either way, I cleared up the situation on the discord server and warned all the users to stop posting disrespectful things about artists on there.
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We do moderate fairly and evenly, but everyone thinks they are the victim. The level of double standards and entitlement are off the charts. Everyone thinks they are being treated unfairly, but that is not the case.
Do you not see army slander other artists? You may not have personally, but almost everyone is guilty of this sort of behavior. Even in your own subforum, you are slandering your fellow users. That doesn't make it ok just because you are defending your artists. Two wrongs do not make a right.
We are trying our best, but really you all need to take a step back and realize all parties were in the wrong and are being dealt with in the same way.
I do see ARMY sometimes slander other artists, and I think you should come down hard on them too. All artist slander should be cut off at the kneecaps. I want reasoned debate or at least silly squabbling, and I don't have any patience for those who make ARMY look bad, either. Take 'em all down.
But saying "Everyone is bad" ignores that our issues are very specific: Terrible and defamatory things were being said about BTS in the Discord, we have receipts, and it wasn't being at all moderated. Many users were involved. There aren't receipts of core ARMY (not those pretending to be ARMY just to make us look terrible, or trolls, or bored multis) other than 1 or 2 users at most going after other groups.
Mods are there to police, but we caught them *getting involved in the fray*. One of ARMY's biggest trolls is now a mod.
If there are receipts then those people needed to be taken to task as well. We'll have to agree to disagree, but the modding has in general been very lopsided, and this just underscores that.
you've got a cool thing going here, seriously. It's amazing you're getting artist AMAs. But boosting the "ARMY are so toxic!" narrative when everything that just happened shows we're not the problem is just going to lead to this place turning into a mess.
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Now that I'm caught up on everything. We are organizing an email campaign to send to Big Hit as well as spreading the words on twitter that this AKP website is allowing public slander and defamation of BTS to unimaginable scales, including malicious bashing of the members, false accusations of plagiarism, etc. Pages after pages of nonstop bashing and false rumours targeting the members individually. Pretty nasty stuff if you ask me and of legal magnitude.
I will message you all the details. Thanks!
what is bighit even gonna do i-
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You all have a crazy amount of double standards, entitlement and playing victim going on in here, and no matter what I say, nothing will change your minds.
No point in reasoning with you all here. We are moderating fairly and equally, but you will always refuse to see that. I don't know what else to say to you, but stop calling out other users and follow the overall rules of the forums and you guys can have your safe space
How about we leave it at that?
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You all have a crazy amount of double standards, entitlement and playing victim going on in here, and no matter what I say, nothing will change your minds.
No point in reasoning with you all here. We are moderating fairly and equally, but you will always refuse to see that. I don't know what else to say to you, but stop calling out other users and follow the overall rules of the forums and you guys can have your safe space
How about we leave it at that?
can we please know why the two guild members were banned?
And what measures were taken against the discord users bashing BTS in there?
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Why wouldn't they be banned? they came in guns blazing and took screen shots to doxx and call out other members which is strictly forbidden.
In addition, their attitude was "I'm leaving the site anyway, so let me shit stir the pot and create drama first".
And how many discord users were bashing bts? Everyone received a warning and were informed to stop. The people who were banned wouldn't drop the subject and continued to press forward.
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You all have a crazy amount of double standards, entitlement and playing victim going on in here, and no matter what I say, nothing will change your minds.
No point in reasoning with you all here. We are moderating fairly and equally, but you will always refuse to see that. I don't know what else to say to you, but stop calling out other users and follow the overall rules of the forums and you guys can have your safe space
How about we leave it at that?
it’s seems like we aren’t gonna agree here as I don’t recall anyone naming any users in that thread. But I do have some questions I’d like answered so I’ll move on.
Will there be new rules out in place for the public discord about not bashing and repercussions if one does so?
The two users that were banned can I ask why? They did the same thing every other army in the guild did and it’s really upsetting to see those two targeted. I hope you can unban them because they did nothing wrong but be rightfully upset about what they saw.
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Why wouldn't they be banned? they came in guns blazing and took screen shots to doxx and call out other members which is strictly forbidden.
In addition, their attitude was "I'm leaving the site anyway, so let me shit stir the pot and create drama first".
And how many discord users were bashing bts? Everyone received a warning and were informed to stop. The people who were banned wouldn't drop the subject and continued to press forward.
How is talking about toxicity on public server doxxing? Its public. Its promoted on highly the biggest kpop forum. It has a thousand members. Noone posted any screenshots from what I saw, everyone could go there and see for themselves what people were talking about.
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Oh and before you all bring out the pitchforks, I didn't ban them nor did I know they were until you pointed it out. The discord mods did it and have posted the reasons for it.
Nonstop verbal abuse and calling the place a "shithole", even when asked to stop is the reason given, in addition to the calling out of other users.
You can't come into a place and trash it and continue to do so and then feel entitled to access. But who am I to teach common sense.
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Oh and before you all bring out the pitchforks, I didn't ban them nor did I know they were until you pointed it out. The discord mods did it and have posted the reasons for it.
Nonstop verbal abuse and calling the place a "shithole", even when asked to stop is the reason given, in addition to the calling out of other users.
You can't come into a place and trash it and continue to do so and then feel entitled to access. But who am I to teach common sense.
But a_song_calling_f didn't even comment in the discord. So what's the reason she is banned here in AKP?
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Why wouldn't they be banned? they came in guns blazing and took screen shots to doxx and call out other members which is strictly forbidden.
In addition, their attitude was "I'm leaving the site anyway, so let me shit stir the pot and create drama first".
And how many discord users were bashing bts? Everyone received a warning and were informed to stop. The people who were banned wouldn't drop the subject and continued to press forward.
Thank you for the explanation, though Discord is still a public space and i don't see how it qualifies as doxxing.
But what I'm getting is people were mad for what was being said about BTS; the ones who got angry about it were banned, but the ones who were toxic (we love this word, lol) in the first place and did all the dragging got a slap on the wrist.
And this is what we mean about unfair moderating. If dragging artists isn't allowed, why are those users getting away with it?
I'm all for objectivity. If you see ARMYs dragging other artists, you are in your rights to give them a warning etc. But punishment should be equal for everyone, and in this particular situation, it looks like 2 members of the guild took exception to the things being said, and got punished for addressing it. And those who were dragging BTS got away with a laugh and two less ARMYs to worry about calling them on their ugliness.
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Oh and before you all bring out the pitchforks, I didn't ban them nor did I know they were until you pointed it out. The discord mods did it and have posted the reasons for it.
Nonstop verbal abuse and calling the place a "shithole", even when asked to stop is the reason given, in addition to the calling out of other users.
You can't come into a place and trash it and continue to do so and then feel entitled to access. But who am I to teach common sense.
I really didn’t see them saying that and I didn’t see them name any users but talk about the situation. No mod came in to our thread and told us to stop but only deleted it then banned user's. I thought we had a wp system. Tbh knowing that it wasn’t even you who banned them makes it worse cause I can understand you not using the wp system but mods who are just normal users permabanning without warnings just doesn’t seem right to me if I’m honest
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Why wouldn't they be banned? they came in guns blazing and took screen shots to doxx and call out other members which is strictly forbidden.
In addition, their attitude was "I'm leaving the site anyway, so let me shit stir the pot and create drama first".
And how many discord users were bashing bts? Everyone received a warning and were informed to stop. The people who were banned wouldn't drop the subject and continued to press forward.
Wow you are absolutely just lying at this point.
1) They DID NOT call out any users. Go dig up the deleted post and show me proof if you say they did, because the reality is that they DID NOT.
2) They DID NOT share screenshots. Again show me proof if you say they did, because the reality is that they DID NOT. Also your discord is a PUBLIC server. I can literally just search and click and go straight to see all the bashing. Pages after pages of unmoderated bashing. Ohhhh boyyyyyy it looks sooooo bad just sitting there in the public discord server that anyone can see
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I hope you investigated this yourself so you would know the situation and be able to judge fairly. There wasn't a mod who came in the thread to warn users about the thread or are you talking about guild mods? If you are then we were only telling them to stop arguing. I have no power to ban or give members warning points.
She wasn't shit stirring either, she was just sharing what was on a PUBLIC discord. So why were they immediately permabanned and not given warning points instead?
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Thank you for the explanation, though Discord is still a public space and i don't see how it qualifies as doxxing.
But what I'm getting is people were mad for what was being said about BTS; the ones who got angry about it were banned, but the ones who were toxic (we love this word, lol) in the first place and did all the dragging got a slap on the wrist.
And this is what we mean about unfair moderating. If dragging artists isn't allowed, why are those users getting away with it?
I'm all for objectivity. If you see ARMYs dragging other artists, you are in your rights to give them a warning etc. But punishment should be equal for everyone, and in this particular situation, it looks like 2 members of the guild took exception to the things being said, and got punished for addressing it. And those who were dragging BTS got away with a laugh and two less ARMYs to worry about calling them on their ugliness.
Moderating is done as objectively as possible, but being a human means emotions will sometimes come into play. Do I think this is alright? Not really, but it happens and improper judgements are made. I'm not disagreeing that maybe the wrong punishments were given and Ves can decide if a reversal should be made, but honestly, the amount of aggression and the attitude of certain members can greatly influence a moderators decision.
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Thank you for the explanation, though Discord is still a public space and i don't see how it qualifies as doxxing.
But what I'm getting is people were mad for what was being said about BTS; the ones who got angry about it were banned, but the ones who were toxic (we love this word, lol) in the first place and did all the dragging got a slap on the wrist.
And this is what we mean about unfair moderating. If dragging artists isn't allowed, why are those users getting away with it?
I'm all for objectivity. If you see ARMYs dragging other artists, you are in your rights to give them a warning etc. But punishment should be equal for everyone, and in this particular situation, it looks like 2 members of the guild took exception to the things being said, and got punished for addressing it. And those who were dragging BTS got away with a laugh and two less ARMYs to worry about calling them on their ugliness.
This pretty much, you bash and namecall and abuse BTS and you get a slap on the wrist but if you call out users who did that you get a permaban. Shouldn't punishment be equal and fair? Those users atmost deserved a warning point or two and not a permaban.
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Wow you are absolutely just lying at this point.
1) They DID NOT call out any users. Go dig up the deleted post and show me proof if you say they did, because the reality is that they DID NOT.
2) They DID NOT share screenshots. Again show me proof if you say they did, because the reality is that they DID NOT. Also your discord is a PUBLIC server. I can literally just search and click and go straight to see all the bashing. Pages after pages of unmoderated bashing. Ohhhh boyyyyyy it looks sooooo bad just sitting there in the public discord server that anyone can see
TYPING IN CAPS MAKES ME REALLY FEEL INDIFFERENT TO YOUR POST. ALSO THREATENING AN EMAIL LAWSUIT CAMPAIGN ON A DMCA PROTECTED FREE SPEECH PLATFORM REALLY MAKES ME TAKE YOU SERIOUSLY.
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TYPING IN CAPS MAKES ME REALLY FEEL INDIFFERENT TO YOUR POST. ALSO THREATENING AN EMAIL LAWSUIT CAMPAIGN ON A DMCA PROTECTED FREE SPEECH PLATFORM REALLY MAKES ME TAKE YOU SERIOUSLY.
so can i go and talk whatever i want on that DMCA PROTECTED FREE SPEECH PLATFORM
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Moderating is done as objectively as possible, but being a human means emotions will sometimes come into play. Do I think this is alright? Not really, but it happens and improper judgements are made. I'm not disagreeing that maybe the wrong punishments were given and Ves can decide if a reversal should be made, but honestly, the amount of aggression and the attitude of certain members can greatly influence a moderators decision.
Vesti's hands are tied here - two Guild members were banned and you want her to make the judgement on it? How is that fair to her? If she unbans them she'll be called biased, and we both know the amount of work she's put into this new forum. She doesn't deserve this.
If you think the punishment is unfair, then you could make the judgement on it. Because if aggressiveness is a license to be biased, then I don't see how all those comments in the Discord about BTS didn't tilt the balance with the mods in favor of also banning those members doing the dragging.
To my knowledge also, no warning was given to the people in this thread. One of the members banned didn't even post in the Discord chat. Sharing screenshots from the allkpop Discord to allkpop forum shouldn't pose an issue, they're both public spaces populated by basically the same users. And i hardly doubt it warrants a permaban, with no warning and no explanation.
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Vesti's hands are tied here - two Guild members were banned and you want her to make the judgement on it? How is that fair to her? If she unbans them she'll be called biased, and we both know the amount of work she's put into this new forum. She doesn't deserve this.
If you think the punishment is unfair, then you could make the judgement on it. Because if aggressiveness is a license to be biased, then I don't see how all those comments in the Discord about BTS didn't tilt the balance with the mods in favor of also banning those members doing the dragging.
To my knowledge also, no warning was given to the people in this thread. One of the members banned didn't even post in the Discord chat. Sharing screenshots from the allkpop Discord to allkpop forum shouldn't pose an issue, they're both public spaces populated by basically the same users. And i hardly doubt it warrants a permaban, with no warning and no explanation.
How are her hands tied? she knows them better than i do, so it's giving her the call.
if its my decision, then i will stick with the permaban as they broke the rules that are stated clearly in the rules that would incite a permaban.
ABSOLUTELY NO
Inappropriate call outs or highly inflammatory insults/insinuations against forum users including exposes.
That's what the forum mods considered when they issued the permaban.
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