KPop back to its "Natural Borders " - Japan feeding most of KPop's overseas concerts

    Irrespective of the acts before and after? So they did it all themselves? Really? If you want to brag about BTS's success in the west, be my guest, but there's absolutely no need to downplay the successes of others or pretend they have BTS to thank for them. BTS only "paved the way" (as their fans love to say) for themselves. Believe it or not, some of us westerners knew about Kpop long before BTS even existed.

    Quote from Popper-of-Ks

    Irrespective of the acts before and after? So they did it all themselves? Really? If you want to brag about BTS's success in the west, be my guest, but there's absolutely no need to downplay the successes of others or pretend they have BTS to thank for them. BTS only "paved the way" (as their fans love to say) for themselves. Believe it or not, some of us westerners knew about Kpop long before BTS even existed.

    Don't put words in my mouth.

    I didn't not say they were the first or paved the way etc.

    Neither am I downplaying the rest.


    Saying that BTS is the high tide of Kpop in the West and it will be by BTS Kpop will be remembered in West, is just statement of facts. Not any brag.

    It will be a micro population which will know Kpop acts other than BTS, while they are phenomenon.


    And I am no fan of BTS, dislike the ARMY- fandom culture. Yet facts are facts.

    I won't live in denial of them.

    You are most certainly 100% downplaying everyone else. For someone who supposedly isn't a fan of BTS, you sound strikingly like a fan of BTS right now, taking a page right out of their playbook by hyping their accomplishments while trying to minimize everyone else's.


    And as I've tried explaining to people on here numerous times before, they are not even a true "phenomenon." The Beatles were a phenomenon. BTS is a niche oddity with a dedicated fanbase and a company willing to spend money backing them. Only a small population of westerners will remember any of these groups in the long run. So let's not act like one is going in the Rock n Roll Hall of Fame and the others are minced meat.

    Quote from Popper-of-Ks

    You are most certainly 100% downplaying everyone else. For someone who supposedly isn't a fan of BTS, you sound strikingly like a fan of BTS right now, taking a page right out of their playbook by hyping their accomplishments while trying to minimize everyone else's.


    And as I've tried explaining to people on here numerous times before, they are not even a true "phenomenon." The Beatles were a phenomenon. BTS is a niche oddity with a dedicated fanbase and a company willing to spend money backing them. Only a small population of westerners will remember any of these groups in the long run. So let's not act like one is going in the Rock n Roll Hall of Fame and the others are minced meat.

    Thanks, next time some ARMY accuses me of hating BTS, I will use your certificate.


    Otherwise I reject your analysis of me.


    I am betting BTS will be remembered like how ABBA is

    And if they are not, other Kpop acts have far less a chance of being remembered at all.


    History will decide.


    The Beatles is a wrong comparison, as they are a part of West-Anglosphere.

    Irrelevant to this discussion.


    Bye

    Quote from Popper-of-Ks

    Irrespective of the acts before and after? So they did it all themselves? Really? If you want to brag about BTS's success in the west, be my guest, but there's absolutely no need to downplay the successes of others or pretend they have BTS to thank for them. BTS only "paved the way" (as their fans love to say) for themselves. Believe it or not, some of us westerners knew about Kpop long before BTS even existed.

    Before BTS, other than the foray by Psy, KPop was not considered to be mainstream.


    JYP and SM made attempts but they went nowhere.


    It is true that KPop was making inroads into the Asian-american pop, but they were not too strong

    Quote from WhyKnock

    Before BTS, other than the foray by Psy, KPop was not considered to be mainstream.


    JYP and SM made attempts but they went nowhere.


    It is true that KPop was making inroads into the Asian-american pop, but they were not too strong

    Except that Psy ended up as a flash in the pan.. a fantastically viral flash.. but still a flash.


    Earlier attempts did matter to set up BTS, nevertheless BTS is the high point -unless some future act achieves more than them. And I think that is not happening. All succeeding acts will have diminishing returns.

    So I do agree with your premise that Kpop is slowing rolling back to its home territories.


    West will incorporate some of Kpop's methods - production & marketing, but that is about it.

    Quote from BEG4DAWIN

    Yet, when I look at ticketmaster, there are like 500 Kpop acts touring the USA in 2024.


    Sure, most are playing 'Bingo halls' but still.

    Only Twice , mostly Japanese, toured stadiums.


    IVE and a certain nonKPopper did arena tours. I think NCT dream's tour is also Arena, and SM tends to rent bigger places than it needs.


    That's about it, the rest of them at Bingo Halls.

    Quote from BEG4DAWIN

    Yet, when I look at ticketmaster, there are like 500 Kpop acts touring the USA in 2024.


    Sure, most are playing 'Bingo halls' but still.

    That actually is indicative of decline. Too many with diluted impact is the spiral downwards.

    They are all simply rushing to squeeze the dying goose and make whatever buck they can. Even if they can't even fill 200-500 people venues.


    Soon they will drop below the break even point and poof.

    When fans will stop bulk buying their faves albums they will have more money to buy tickets to concerts. Also, we have now too many groups and many soloists who tour, so not 3 or 4 groups are present in the west. People have more choices, so market becomes competitive, so all the cake won’t go to only bp and BTS. Also, during covid era and after buying tickets to watch online became extremely popular and cheaper. So people started buying tickets so they can atlest watch their faves online, so consider this atleast

    Quote from bbgc

    That actually is indicative of decline. Too many with diluted impact is the spiral downwards.

    They are all simply rushing to squeeze the dying goose and make whatever buck they can. Even if they can't even fill 200-500 people venues.


    Soon they will drop below the break even point and poof.

    During the British invasion era, according to encyclopedia britannica,


    British Invasion | Origins, Groups, & Facts
    British Invasion, musical movement of the mid-1960s composed of British rock-and-roll groups whose popularity spread rapidly to the United States. The bands…
    www.britannica.com

    >Beatles,

    Peter and Gordon (“A World Without Love”),

    the Animals (“House of the Rising Sun”),

    Manfred Mann (“Do Wah Diddy Diddy”),

    Petula Clark (“Downtown”), [Not her - she would be somewhat equivalent to the singer who had taken a photo with anchovy)

    Freddie and the Dreamers (“I’m Telling You Now”),

    Wayne Fontana and the Mindbenders (“Game of Love”),

    Herman’s Hermits (“Mrs. Brown You’ve Got a Lovely Daughter”),

    the Rolling Stones (“[I Can’t Get No] Satisfaction” and others),

    the Troggs (“Wild Thing”), and

    Donovan (“Sunshine Superman”) all topped Billboard’s singles chart.<



    10 acts topping Billboard Hot 100, plus one not part of the Invasion, the equivalent of the person who has been the greatest enemy of KPop.


    No one can imagine the singer who contributed nothing to KPop topping Hot 100, ever.


    The unfortunate thing was that no one, other than BlackPink in a half hearted way, followed BTS' advances with a strong follow up.


    So it seems your analysis would be correct.


    They are just going for the scraps on the afterglow of BTS' world conquest, and with the recent New Jeans implosion which will probably make the KPop boom without successors, the fly by night KPop tours by nugus will end as well.

    Quote from Taemin-Identity

    When fans will stop bulk buying their faves albums they will have more money to buy tickets to concerts. Also, we have now too many groups and many soloists who tour, so not 3 or 4 groups are present in the west. People have more choices, so market becomes competitive, so all the cake won’t go to only bp and BTS. Also, during covid era and after buying tickets to watch online became extremely popular and cheaper. So people started buying tickets so they can atlest watch their faves online, so consider this atleast

    Hard to do since a lot of fans live in places where concert venues are not easy to get to.


    Everyone and her brother is touring USA , even the Senior Singer, when there is something to collect so that did create a saturation.


    Plus the music was not catch enough. It became bland.

    Quote from WhyKnock

    Before BTS, other than the foray by Psy, KPop was not considered to be mainstream.


    JYP and SM made attempts but they went nowhere.


    It is true that KPop was making inroads into the Asian-american pop, but they were not too strong

    It STILL isn't mainstream outside of S. Korea and maybe Japan & some other countries. BTS changed nothing in that respect.


    There's nothing wrong with the Beatles comparison. You wanted a phenomenon, so I mentioned a real one. Their songs aren't any more English than those of the group you brought up, and you yourself made a point of BTS releasing English songs to appeal to the west as well. Are we just setting the bar real low for a Korean "phenomenon?"


    I already mentioned that none of these acts will be remembered by the western general public. That doesn't mean everyone but BTS did nothing. It's a false equivalence.

    Quote from WhyKnock

    Hard to do since a lot of fans live in places where concert venues are not easy to get to.


    Everyone and her brother is touring USA , even the Senior Singer, when there is something to collect so that did create a saturation.


    Plus the music was not catch enough. It became bland.

    Senior Singer is making good bank in the US, bcoz hers is a rare sighting outside her domain and she is comfortably doing 15000 venues. If at all, the feeling is that she has undersold her own capacity.


    But others - not so much, they indeed are cashing on the afterglow but with diminishing returns.


    Probably only Twice, BP and BTS when the return will have top tier concerts - stadiums & arenas. Then SKZ likes, then it is rapid down gradient.


    When NJ, Ive, LSF, TWS etc., come West, it will be purely the Kpop fandoms, which sure are larger than 2015-2017 when BTS started, but Western GP will increasingly not come.

    That is my prediction, but we will have see how it plays out.


    The Senior Singer is again fortunate to tour in this exact plateau period.

    Quote from Adelaidestevsn

    South Koreans contribute very little to Kpop as a whole, I read somehwere - can’t remember which group but only 3% of profits came from SK and the rest was from overseas

    Koreans are very detrimental for KPop


    Yet Bang was foolish enough to give up the world for 3% of the entire profits the company made

    Arjit Singh. who sings primarily in one language of India, albeit the most spoken, is now the most followed act on Spotify.

    There is no Kpop act in top 10, BTS is at 11 and Blackpink in 19th. The top ranks are dominated by Western artists and few Indians.

    Spotify is more reliable, because unlike YT or Instagram, Spotify is primarily for music and not swayed by MVs, fashion or Skinshow.


    If China ever opens up to join these platforms or India consolidates into a single language, the rest all would be kicked out of the top ranks.


    Kpop got lucky with BTS/BP, that is all. S.Korea and some percentage of E.Asia/SE Asia are indeed its typical market.


    And longer BTS is out of action, more difficult it is going to be for them to recapture global audience. Their return will have a spike, but that is it.

    They will definitely continue to sell out concert tours, they have a large enough fandom for that.

    But days of global dominance are done. Frankly they dominated perhaps for couple of years.

    Impressive for Korea. But not a big deal otherwise.


    Though anecdotal, I met with some teenagers past weekends and turns out the most currently discussed Kpop act is SKZ, not BTS or BP, which are already seen as yesterday's news.

  • AllKill VIP

    K-pop was always going to be niche in the west. The question was always how big was the niche going to be and whether it would be worth it allocate resources to sustain that niche.


    To penetrate the west, the best chance that you have is to do it through America, which is the cultural superpower for most of the world. To succeed in America, you have two and only two language options for long-term viability:

    • English.
    • Spanish.
      • And if you choose Spanish, then English is a big plus because you'll probably want to make an English version for mass appeal; 1/6 of Americans speak Spanish anyway, but there's no need to ignore the other 5/6.

    People mistook high streaming numbers and view counts of the equivalent of Swifties and believed that BTS and Blackpink and others were breaking into the mainstream. They never were. American music programs and award shows catered to K-pop for engagement. Fans thought that creating "K-pop" categories was a form of racism in order to prevent their faves from winning the big awards. That's not the case. The categories are there to stuff as many K-pop groups as possible into programs in order to fish engagement numbers from their fans.


    K-pop fans boast when their faves get big brand deals, but why is it that even big group nobodies that have just debuted are able to score international brand deals instead of the soju and fried chicken deals from back in the day? Because the group's fans will engage with the content and do the hard work of spreading that content around for free advertising.


    K-pop's natural place is with Koreans, which is why the domestic market is the most important market for any group. That's where almost every idol will make their money after their decade of being an idol. Japan, China, and SEA are also important due to proximity to South Korea in terms of geography and culture.


    K-pop companies will still try their hands overseas because why would you leave money on the table if you can snag some for profit or some other intangible.


    Is this sad? Not really. I'd really like to see K-pop go back to the late 90s and 00's and start borrowing from J-pop again.

Participate now!

Don’t have an account yet? Register yourself now and be a part of our community!

Register Yourself Login