This is specifically calling out fans who are like, “ oh they tour a lot.” Kpop tours aren’t especially vigorous and usually don’t last too long. The groups have significant breaks between them and if they are huge groups like Twice, BTS, BP etc, they are very much well compensated for their time and energy spent. Please stop act like these people have the hardest job in the world. I’m not saying it’s easy but y’all gotta chill out. Its tough yes but many jobs are tough they ain’t special.
Idols don’t work any harder than normal people
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This☝️
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"Normal" people work a range of different hours.
Some more than others. So, in that aspect you are right. "Idols" may work as many hours as a normal person, but that just means some may be overworked (just like normal people can be) and some may not be.
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"Normal" people work a range of different hours.
Some more than others. So, in that aspect you are right. "Idols" may work as many hours as a normal person, but that just means some may be overworked (just like normal people can be) and some may not be.
Exactly that’s what I mean and if we are talking about huge idols like BP, Twice, BTS etc they are millionaires and make thousands in deals with companies. Whereas most normal workers, especially in Korea, can’t even afford a house unless they put themselves in major debt. As someone who has done house/apartment hunting in Korea it is not easy and most people hate it or have to go into debt to even afford the deposit.
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Exactly that’s what I mean and if we are talking about huge idols like BP, Twice, BTS etc they are millionaires and make thousands in deals with companies. Whereas most normal workers, especially in Korea, can’t even afford a house unless they put themselves in major debt. As someone who has done house/apartment hunting in Korea it is not easy and most people hate it or have to go into debt to even afford the deposit.
Yeah, but I don't think it makes sense to think that just because they are compensated more means you should have less sympathy for their hard work.
I have sympathy for any person who feels they are working beyond their limits. No matter the industry because we are all human and we all feel stress.
I remember seeing Jeongyeon break down in tears on a live once when Twice was at the height of their busiest schedule. And, people were saying similar things to this. "You make a lot of money?" "Why are you complaining?" "Just quit if you don't want to do it."
And it's like, damn, have a conscience? We all go through rough times. Might not be the hardest job in the world, but it has it's hard moments just like every thing else.
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Yeah, but I don't think it makes sense to think that just because they are compensated more means you should have less sympathy for their hard work.
I have sympathy for any person who feels they are working beyond their limits. No matter the industry because we are all human and we all feel stress.
I remember seeing Jeongyeon break down in tears on a live once when Twice was at the height of their busiest schedule. And, people were saying similar things to this. "You make a lot of money?" "Why are you complaining?" "Just quit if you don't want to do it."
And it's like, damn, have a conscience? We all go through rough times. Might not be the hardest job in the world, but it has it's hard moments just like every thing else.
You are missing my point. I’m not saying you shouldn’t feel sympathy for them. I’m saying you shouldn’t act like they have the hardest job in the world. I never said it is an easy job, simply that it isn’t exactly overly hard either. It’s a job. I have sympathy for anyone who is having a hard time at their job.
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You are missing my point. I’m not saying you shouldn’t feel sympathy for them. I’m saying you shouldn’t act like they have the hardest job in the world. I never said it is an easy job, simply that it isn’t exactly overly hard either. It’s a job. I have sympathy for anyone who is having a hard time at their job.
Yeah, I'm missing the point of the thread.
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You can be sympathetic but also be realistic. Big idols do tours, promotions and comebacks and then get months-long breaks, where the average working person who works the same hours will never get that. There are obviously harder jobs, physically and mentally, but I’ll still feel for an idol if they’re upset/hurt from the work.
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like most things it's a spectrum/range of "work" no? also what is "hard" how are we defining hard - are we referring to physical work vs non-physical
in terms of hard work are we comparing the judge who has to use their analytical skills to decide cases vs the undersea welder? is one work harder than the other? is a server who runs around serving people at a restaurant harder than being the CEO of a fortune 500 company?
now onto idols - what of the hours and days and years of hard work in terms of their training? it's not uncommon for idols to train 6 days a week with a break on the seventh and that's in addition to their normal schooling - idols like jihyo trained for like 10 years - is that not hard work? do we discount the time an idol takes training to be an idol in the first place?
and once you become an idol - there's probably periods of harder work (physically) compared to downtimes - ie. touring or comebacks - learning the song/chereography/waking up at like 3am to get to inkigayo or other music shows to prerecord/perform etc etc
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You can be sympathetic but also be realistic. Big idols do tours, promotions and comebacks and then get months-long breaks, where the average working person who works the same hours will never get that. There are obviously harder jobs, physically and mentally, but I’ll still feel for an idol if they’re upset/hurt from the work.
Of course and I would never tell someone not to feel sympathy for anyone having a hard time at work. Also idols are also overworked. They have tons of events and things to do.
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Ah the "you may be having a hard time but somebody else is having it harder" approach.
A well-loved thought process by people with the emotional depth of a dried puddle in Texas summer.
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like most things it's a spectrum/range of "work" no? also what is "hard" how are we defining hard - are we referring to physical work vs non-physical
in terms of hard work are we comparing the judge who has to use their analytical skills to decide cases vs the undersea welder? is one work harder than the other? is a server who runs around serving people at a restaurant harder than being the CEO of a fortune 500 company?
now onto idols - what of the hours and days and years of hard work in terms of their training? it's not uncommon for idols to train 6 days a week with a break on the seventh and that's in addition to their normal schooling - idols like jihyo trained for like 10 years - is that not hard work? do we discount the time an idol takes training to be an idol in the first place?
and once you become an idol - there's probably periods of harder work (physically) compared to downtimes - ie. touring or comebacks - learning the song/chereography/waking up at like 3am to get to inkigayo or other music shows to prerecord/perform etc etc
Training as opposed to schooling. Schooling is difficult in Korea. In my opinion most idols just traded their time doing one tiring thing for another. For example students in Korea will often go to school from morning till night. High schoolers go to school until like 11pm at thre most and if they don’t stay in school till then they have after schools to go to. So it’s night like kids in Korea that don’t become idols have it easier. Idols usually don’t focus on school because they are focusing on idol work. So again it’s just trading own thing for another. Korean students can equally say they envy idols as they can go dance and possibly become an idol while the kids, if they fail their tests, can really only hope for shit jobs where they are paid subpar.
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Training as opposed to schooling. Schooling is difficult in Korea. In my opinion most idols just traded their time doing one tiring thing for another. For example students in Korea will often go to school from morning till night. High schoolers go to school until like 11pm at thre most and if they don’t stay in school till then they have after schools to go to. So it’s night like kids in Korea that don’t become idols have it easier. Idols usually don’t focus on school because they are focusing on idol work. So again it’s just trading own thing for another. Korean students can equally say they envy idols as they can go dance and possibly become an idol while the kids, if they fail their tests, can really only hope for shit jobs where they are paid subpar.
right and which one is "harder"
the medical student who spends 10 years of his life training to be a doctor is hard work but is that harder or less hard than an athlete training to be a basketball player? vs the training an idol does to be an idol vs any other job per se
I'm sure we can agree it's all hard work - but is one necessarily harder than another - are they even comparable?
is it possible to conclude - it's all hard work both the performance of the job and the training necessary to get there whether one is an idol or a "regular" person?
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It depends what you compare to. Working harder than people in counties with heavy regulated labour laws (eg Scandinavia), then probably yes.
Compared to countries like Korea or - just making something up - the tech industry in US. Then maybe no.
In occupational research one way to evaluate work stress is to weight amount of work made compared to rewards received (salary, esteem, etc).
Successful kpop stars work prolly same hours as many Koreans but with waaayyyy higher rewards in relation to work put in
Not saying they aren’t overworked , but contributing w a perspective
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Ah the "you may be having a hard time but somebody else is having it harder" approach.
A well-loved thought process by people with the emotional depth of a dried puddle in Texas summer.
to be "hard" work it has to be compared to other forms of work
if everyone is working hard, then that's not hard work, thats standard work
going beyond the standard is what makes it hard
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It depends what you compare to. Working harder than people in counties with heavy regulated labour laws (eg Scandinavia), then probably yes.
Compared to countries like Korea or - just making something up - the tech industry in US. Then maybe no.
In occupational research one way to evaluate work stress is to weight amount of work made compared to rewards received (salary, esteem, etc).
Successful kpop stars work prolly same hours as many Koreans but with waaayyyy higher rewards in relation to work put in
Not saying they aren’t overworked , but contributing w a perspective
Of course, I’m speaking generally but one a one to one level it will vary.
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but OP you dont understand dieting and dancing is so much harder than building bridges, farming, staying up nights to study, etc
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but OP you dont understand dieting and dancing is so much harder than building bridges, farming, staying up nights to study, etc
Farming is pretty damn hard work tho ….
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Normal people don’t work as hard as other normal people
How hard you work is often dependent on what profession you’re in and some professions are harder than others. Some jobs need even more hard work than being an idol and other jobs are not nearly as stressful nor require as much hard work.
Unless you’re implying everyone in the world work the same amount? That’s simply not true.
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to be "hard" work it has to be compared to other forms of work
if everyone is working hard, then that's not hard work, thats standard work
going beyond the standard is what makes it hard
but then what is "standard work" - that's different by occupation and region
and also can standard work never be "hard"
can one form of work really compared to another form? how does physical work compare to non-physical work?
to a neurosurgeon performing brain surgery is standard to them but is that not hard?
or are we comparing work performed within a profession/occupation? the idol who performs 2 shows over 2 days is working harder than the idol who performs only one show over two days?
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Normal people don’t work as hard as other normal people
How hard you work is often dependent on what profession you’re in and some professions are harder than others. Some jobs need even more hard work than being an idol and other jobs are not nearly as stressful nor require as much hard work.
Unless you’re implying everyone in the world work the same amount? That’s simply not true.
I’m speaking generally. My point isn’t to say everyone works the same. It’s simply that fans need to stop acting like idols are working especially harder than anyone else. It’s relative that’s my point.
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Farming is pretty damn hard work tho ….
im being sarcastic, if you cant tell
studying is extremely hard work too, if you are actually paying attention and trying to learn/solve things
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but then what is "standard work" - that's different by occupation and region
and also can standard work never be "hard"
can one form of work really compared to another form? how does physical work compare to non-physical work?
to a neurosurgeon performing brain surgery is standard to them but is that not hard?
or are we comparing work performed within a profession/occupation? the idol who performs 2 shows over 2 days is working harder than the idol who performs only one show over two days?
well the idol who performs 2 shows over 2 days definitely is working harder, unless the other idol is working a lot behind the scenes
i guess total amount of time spent, at high effort ( mental or physical ) is a good comparison
anyone can say they work hard
everyone likes to delude themselves into thinking they work hard
very few actually do
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Of course, I’m speaking generally but one a one to one level it will vary.
I think you miss that I’m sort of agreeing with you
On discussion in this thread.
When comparing amount of work to everybody else, it would make sense to set the reference point to the general Korean labour force and if so their work hours arent that much different. Except successful idols earn waaaaayyyyyy more then an average person and can retire earlier (see previous comment about work volume vs work rewards)
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im being sarcastic, if you cant tell
studying is extremely hard work too, if you are actually paying attention and trying to learn/solve things
I’m a PhD student so yup work/studying 60-80h per week is no joke I know
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I’m a PhD student so yup work/studying 60-80h per week is no joke I know
keep working you got this
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well the idol who performs 2 shows over 2 days definitely is working harder, unless the other idol is working a lot behind the scenes
i guess total amount of time spent, at high effort ( mental or physical ) is a good comparison
anyone can say they work hard
everyone likes to delude themselves into thinking they work hard
very few actually do
I would agree (assuming ceteris paribus)
is it though - obviously there are some forms of work that are comparable but there are so many jobs that just aren't
obviously we aren't looking at the amount of compensation that the job entails nor the degree of difficulty of job (or should we?)
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I think you miss that I’m sort of agreeing with you
On discussion in this thread.
When comparing amount of work to everybody else, it would make sense to set the reference point to the general Korean labour force and if so their work hours arent that much different. Except successful idols earn waaaaayyyyyy more then an average person and can retire earlier (see previous comment about work volume vs work rewards)
but successful idols are the outliers no?
should we not compare like for like?
I mean if we look at the top 10%/5%/1% of all idols shouldn't we be comparing then to the top 10%/5%/1% of non-idols (ie. the chaebols and CEOs/business leaders) instead of the average korean person?
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I would agree (assuming ceteris paribus)
is it though - obviously there are some forms of work that are comparable but there are so many jobs that just aren't
obviously we aren't looking at the amount of compensation that the job entails nor the degree of difficulty of job (or should we?)
in terms of difficulty of job......if a regular worker made a hundred mistakes, no one would make excuses for them based on how hard they work
so if anything, idols have it easier
in fact, barely any of them improve any skills over years of "practice"
wonder where the hard work goes
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Ah the missing the point completely tactic interesting. I never said you shouldn’t feel bad for idols or that idols shouldn’t complain. I’m strictly talking about fans. Idols almost never act like their job is harder than other peoples. This is strictly coming at the fans not the idols. I don’t hear BP, Twice, or BTS members acting like what they do is so much harder than everyone else’s that is strictly something fans do.
Which is funny considering this thread is a reaction to someone saying BP had a hard, physically demanding job
Not the hardest.
Just hard.
This and your responses are pretty much saying you don't believe people should feel bad for them.
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Yeah sure. The idols mentioned in OP was bts, BP and twice which are outliers
The questions put was if idols work harder than average person and although their work contains unusual aspects the total work volume in itself may not differ that much from ordinary people
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in terms of difficulty of job......if a regular worker made a hundred mistakes, no one would make excuses for them based on how hard they work
so if anything, idols have it easier
in fact, barely any of them improve any skills over years of "practice"
wonder where the hard work goes
so we're looking at the outcome of the "work performed" and not the inherent hard work of said performance or training...
interesting
does that mean one only worked hard if they have a performance or effort to show such hard work?
so if an idol does not show improvement (either because they've "peaked") or because they are just lacking - does that mean they haven't worked hard?
is it possible to work hard and not yield any results? vice versa - is it possible to not work hard (innate talent or whatever) but producing excellent results?
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to be "hard" work it has to be compared to other forms of work
if everyone is working hard, then that's not hard work, thats standard work
going beyond the standard is what makes it hard
For it to be hard work, shouldn't it be compared by the effect it has on the workers?
If I go to a mining town or farming industry, those jobs aren't suddenly easy just because everyone is doing them. It just means everyone is getting fucked over
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in terms of difficulty of job......if a regular worker made a hundred mistakes, no one would make excuses for them based on how hard they work
so if anything, idols have it easier
in fact, barely any of them improve any skills over years of "practice"
wonder where the hard work goes
I don't think that 1st sentence is necessarily true. Especially if you have a decent manager.
A lot of people make mistakes due to overwork or taking on more than they can chew, and a decent manager would notice that and account for that by reducing the amount of tasks for that particular position. I know this since I have had regular ass jobs lol with decent managers who understood things like that.
I think in more high risk jobs like surgeons, builders, etc., I think more people are less willing to over look the mistakes since people's lives are at stake. But, in my low risk regular degular ass job, my boss was more forgiving.
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so we're looking at the outcome of the "work performed" and not the inherent hard work of said performance or training...
interesting
does that mean one only worked hard if they have a performance or effort to show such hard work?
so if an idol does not show improvement (either because they've "peaked") or because they are just lacking - does that mean they haven't worked hard?
is it possible to work hard and not yield any results? vice versa - is it possible to not work hard (innate talent or whatever) but producing excellent results?
yes indeed it is possible to work hard for years and not show any improvement
it means you have no talent and should leave the industry for someone else who can actually produce results
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I love her so much but that one video of Jeongyeon a couple years back when she complains about how hard she works and starts crying really irks me and comes off as so annoying when you think about how so many idols would kill to be in her position with a packed schedule and it also comes off as really tone deaf
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yes indeed it is possible to work hard for years and not show any improvement
it means you have no talent and should leave the industry for someone else who can actually produce results
Things like dancing and singing require innate talent so no not everyone is going to be good at it. As long as they try that's what matters.
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yes indeed it is possible to work hard for years and not show any improvement
it means you have no talent and should leave the industry for someone else who can actually produce results
right so the hard work is still there regardless of the results of the hard work
interesting (obviously going on a tangent my friend) does that mean that group who shows no "meaningful" results should just disband regardless of the work put into it? and thus only non-nugu groups should stay in kpop?
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