I’ve been there for many eras and I think this is the shortest her hair has ever been
Posts by Salalalala
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You can leave the „respectfully“ out.
I think everyone owes everyone basic human decency. Everyone can manage to be respectful and non insulting.
I am an ethnic Kurd whose ethnicity was oppressed by right wing Turks for a long time yet I manage to criticise their stance without being disrespectful.
The only thing that’ll happen from you being disrespectful is that the other side will be offensive towards what’s precious to you, too.
I am a muslim, which might be sth terrible to y’all, but I was always taught not to disrespect others people‘s beliefs, but it appears that while you believe to be on the moral high ground you still are not able to have a proper, civil discussion.
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It's best not to take any religious book too seriously. it would be like someone taking Harry Potter seriously. I mean it's just a book someone wrote. No need to get that upset.
I think some of y’all really lack empathy when it comes to religion. It is a book to you. I’d be more offended when someone insulted my religion than my ethnicity. You don’t have to agree with it but it really isn’t asking too much to not insult something.
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i think we've reached the part of the discussion that i can't really reason with. the sheer inclusion of the phrase is offensive on its own. so that's irredeemable in your eyes, i get that, it's quite understandable
i will disagree that Frank's intent is islamophobia. i can see how a bad faith mindset, ignoring context and the immediate audience (western liberal society with middling views on LGTBQ society), can paint that picture though. and i absolutely believe that RM has done nothing wrong here.
I actually didn’t mean that Frank is purposefully endorsing Islamophobia. What I meant was that the song endorses Islamophobia. I don’t know what Frank‘s attitude towards the song in the aftermath to the backlash was, so i can’t say anything about his stance.
Regarding what RM did, I still don’t love it tbh. He is a very educated person so I think it’s ignorant that he didn’t at least pause and think about how him posting that song would be received.
But I’m glad I could make this a little clearer to you
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Frank literally writes into the song his own knee-jerk misunderstanding of the phrase, that's the point. The muslim taxi driver then offers him prayer out of kindness. Frank drops his guard with "I guess it couldn't hurt me". There's a narrative here where for a moment, Frank shows his ignorance and is quickly made aware of it
Is that the same as endorsing Islamophobia?
The thing is, you only interpret the Allahu Akbar as a knee-jerk reaction.
It could be that Frank Ocean really believes that it’s a curse. And even if it was a knee jerk reaction, he still only refers to Islam explicitly in a negative context. We do not know whether he thinks Islamic prayer wouldn’t hurt him. Or if he harbours negative thoughts about Muslims.
The point remains that a holy phrase is highlighted in a negative, explicit manner and that point is not explicitly redeemed. There’s an imbalance there.
He could have simply translated the phrase to god is great. And I no longer would have an issue with it, because Islam wouldn’t be singled out.
But this way, I genuinely believe that it is kind of endorsing Islamophobia. Because if I gave the lyrics of the songs to someone without specifying what Allahu Akbar means, that person would still most likely assume that it is somehow related to a curse.
Apart from that, that phrase still has no place in a secular song.
So I think that calling Namjoon Islamophobic is a exaggerated but it can certainly be viewed as an ignorant action
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In an ideal world you’re right. We should all be allowed to criticize religions as much as we want. Religion has always been the root cause of so much evil in the world.
But the thing is in the real world there is always a power imbalance. So for example there is a difference when someone affected by the religion say for example a Muslim LGBT person bringing up an issue Vs someone random in the west (where Islamophobia is rampant anyway)or some other ethnicity removed from Islam to bring up the same issues. Which is what Frank Ocean did.
No one needs saviors. There is often a mentality that we need to “save others” but this results in you only making it worse for those people who are actually suffering from the negative effects of religion.
TLDR : stay in your lane don’t talk over others. Anyway there are nuances and this won’t always be true. But it’s a case by case basis anyway.
This is a point I’d like to elaborate on.
Islamophobia is actually a very nuanced topic.
I was born and raised in the west (Europe) and have had LGBTQ friends so I do not have some blind hatred against them.
And some of them have opened up about the fact that it is hurtful when religious people curse them, and fair enough, I‘m sure that’s the case.
But there still remains that fact that 100% of the Islamophobia that I have experienced had nothing to do with Islam‘s homophobia.
People just really hate Islam here. Some wouldn’t be even able to tell you why. Most people would refer to terrorist attacks since they don’t know anything about Islamic dogma whatsoever.
People also calling Islamophobia racism is related to the fact that it’s interlinked most of the time. If I were a normal Middle Eastern Person with very liberal views I’d still get racially profiled or receive worse grades because a teacher would assume I’m Muslim (yes i know of cases in which this happened).
And it makes it worse that Frank ocean never was one of the LGBTQ victims and still insults Islam in this way.
Because it makes the situation worse and only adds to the blind hatred that people have.
People think that Allahu Akbar is a terrorist phrase. Now they might think that it’s a curse too.
Day after day my religion is belittled by people who are not even affected by it just because they are xenophobic.
And to those people that say that the criticism is fair because the religion has controversial doctrines to them:
Where I‘m from, a devout Christian would never receive the treatment that I do, even though Christianity‘s, Islam‘s and Judaism‘s „outdated“ points are pretty much identical.
Yet Muslims are singled out every single time. It’s really frustrating and hurtful
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We can have a healthy discussion if you were willing to engage with the points I made.
Let me say it again:
I do understand the broader meaning of the song
But it bears no significance to me being offended.
Because if you take the context of the song away or keep it, it wouldn’t matter.
„Allahu Akbar“ is a sacred phrase that has no place in a secular song.
It especially has no place in a song where it’s first called a curse, but then Islam is not refrenced to in any other way.
We know that he thinks that prayer couldn’t hurt him or that he thinks that love is a bad religion.
But one point still remains- And you say "Allahu akbar" I told him, "Don't curse me"
That part is still the chorus. He states this once and then he returns to after another stanza. He views it as a curse and through the wording of the chorus it is presented as a curse, especially to someone that would not no the meaning of the phrase.
And that, plus the fact that, again, this phrase has no place in a secular song, makes it offensive.
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Follow up lyrics:
Taxi Driver: "But boy you need prayer"
Frank Ocean: "I guess it couldn't hurt me"
is the context important? You seem to allude to the importance of context in a previous post
I really don’t want to be rude but it feels like you’re being obtuse on purpose.
I do not care about the context. What I mean was that if he wrote a song in which he talked about Muslims hurting him with Islamophobia then that is his journey and I wouldn’t really care.
But a) that probably didn’t happen because he grew up in Louisiana because there are virtually no Muslims there and b) that’s not what’s happening in the song.
He calls allahu akbar a curse and it’s not clarified later. That on its own is enough to be offended. And I do kot have to look at his back story to be offended at that.
I’ve also had really negative experiences and traumas with some things in my life but that does not give me the invitation to be so offensive about it
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point to the part of the song where Islam is critiqued
I was upset and that second so I wrote critique even though that’s not what I mean. He did not openly critique it, but he still singled it out. He still called a sacred term a curse. So it’s not a critique, but an insult. Same thing in my book. Criticism at least has a rationale behind it.
If you told me in a civil way that you don’t like XY part about Islam I’d say i disagree but fair enough that’s your opinion. If you said your sacred term is a curse I’d be very pissed.
Why is it so difficult to understand this for some people?
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I was about to say. Salalalala are you actually referring to the song?
Obviously I am.
The lyrics goes „And you say "Allahu akbar"
I told him, "Don't curse me"So a sentence that already has a negative association is also associated with a curse. Most causal listeners would never bother looking up the broader meaning of a song so him terming it that way adds fuel to the fire
Apart from that, it’s really sickening how Muslims have to explain over and over why it’s not okay. Secular music is not permitted in Islam so using that term in a song is also really offensive. No matter which way you try to twist it, this shit is offensive and no, I do not have to understand the broader meaning of the song
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From sane twt discussion, it’s because the sacred arabic of “god is great” is used in the song. the phrase is not to be used is any secular music at all because it’s sin, like cardinal sin “you’ll get stoned to death” sin. Secular music itself for many islam denominations is sin. I guess that’s why the song is discussed to death, irregardless that the phrase is used by a taxi driver praying for him and his “problems”, not exactly sacrilegious on his part
on topic, for me an LGBT person criticizes the homophobia and trauma from organized religions is not offensive. their homophobia works externally as bad as internally to non-believer LGBT people and brought it up to law (e.g. florida’s recent anti-trans law)
So no, RM won’t get cancelled this is such non-issue if the song can exist and accessible in religious majority countries for over a decade before he shared in his ig story without commentary
growing up in the west I am more open towards the LGBTQ discourse than most people from my culture but I still don’t see the point?
if he grew up in a Muslim country or family I’d get it more but that man grew up Louisiana, where there are very few Muslims. He probably suffered a lot more from Christianity‘s dogma. so why Single out Islam and critique it when Muslims are already one of the most hated religious groups?
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I think it’s fascinating that y’all aren’t even Muslims and speak on behalf of us.
As a person who‘s also part of an ethnic minority if never demean someone who heard racist remarks about their own group just because I’m not part of it but y’all are still saying it’s not problematic even though you don’t know how hurtful this is.
So I’m going to say it: Allahu Akbar is of significant meaning to Muslims. It means „God is great“ and is a term frequently used in our daily prayers. Moreover, the term has a very, very negative association in the west because it has become associated with terrorist attacks so someone misusing that term againis so fucking annoying
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I'm just speaking from my personal experience but
but I'm a teacher and IVE/LSFM are more popular with kids so that probably plays a part in it. The reason that I thought Karina was more popular with boys is because Karina and Chaewon are by far the most popular idols with Middle School boys at my school. But I guess that's just a weird coincidence. Winter is probably 3rd.
Thanks a lot for the answer! If you don’t mind another question, did Earth Arcade really have a big impact on Yujin‘s popularity in Korea or was she already very popular before that?
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The extensions aren’t hiding anything TT
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I'm going to say Aespa 2nd at this time. They are selling the most albums and are massive in China plus they already do Tokyo Dome. There is not much difference between #1 weekly on Melon and #2 weekly on Melon.
Anyway they should be 2nd, if you discount gidle, since they have had a 1+ year head start on Ive and lsf.
Ive is last. They are bad outside of Korea which is were most of the money is, except for Japan but Aespa and already lsf are better than them in Japan. Their album sales growth is the worst, which is the best metric to measure growth, and dodgy because who sells 45% of their week one albums not on the 1st day. Digital ULs in Korea are also suspicious, as their company is well known for being dodgy, and frankly how can you have higher ULs than previous viral songs when your song is not viral and Melon subscriptions have dropped a lot.
I‘m sorry but what kind of logic is this? It’s pretty much „All of IVE‘s achievements suck and if they don’t, it’s sajaegi“.
Good for NJ that they’re that popular but why are Bunnies so hard up for downplaying every single one of IVE‘s achievements?
I AM was a popular hit in Korea, which you can tell by the fact that it had a lot of PAKs and is still charting #6 in Melon top10 after so many successful comebacks.
And they still sell a lot of albums and are very popular in Japan, so why would not being at the very top mean that their achievements mean nothing?
