[I might or might not be salty about this BB article] I think the reason why calling ARMY's funding 'chart manipulation' doesn't sit well with me...

Again Justin Bieber gave step by step instructions to his fan base on how to help Yummy pushed to number one. OLivia’s fan base advertised for other fandoms to block PTD from number 1 and gave the details.

Who isn’t doing chart manipulation?

I mean rigging the chart is what kpop fans do always. Even on korean charts. It’s not new. Mass buying/mass steaming/download heavy charting

BTS fans just adopted the common kpop methodologies and applied it to a global scale because there’s more of them worldwide.

The GG ‘organic’ Vs BG ‘inorganic’ discussion in kpop stan verses has transcended into global platform for BTS Kek.

People will not stop criticizing fandom efforts no matter how many years it’ll be. Best to brush it off.

The other fandoms do the same, they simply dont have enough fans in US to buy.

Its also very transparent what is happening. BB is owned by the same company as THR and their main purpose is serving the interests of western big labels. Its one defamatory article after another. Western industry is clearly threatened.

Why dont they ask western pop stars about their bundles, radio payola, Spotify discovery mode, paid playlisting, VPN usage to their face? Why was there no army troll quotes in Olivia's or Ariana's or Dua's or Justin's articles? Were all the versions of Folkloe/Evermore listed at their latest story on Taylor? Somehow they only do this to BTS.

And its their own chart. They make the rules. If they want sales to count less, they can change it. But oops, it would also hurt some artists pushed by the industry. So they defame BTS and try to create a narrative where they organize massive chart manipulation instead.

Mass manipulation is just a zinger to throw at the incredible success of BTS. If the didn’t sell out products, deliver TV rating, have a stadium tour that sold out in less than an hour and pushed resale tickets into the thousands, have Samsung and McDonalds partnering with them, then there is no real demand to back up their incredible numbers, that might be a story but BTS continues to grow at an incredible rate

Quote from merribelle

Mass manipulation is just a zinger to throw at the incredible success of BTS. If the didn’t sell out products, deliver TV rating, have a stadium tour that sold out in less than an hour and pushed resale tickets into the thousands, have Samsung and McDonalds partnering with them, then there is no real demand to back up their incredible numbers, that might be a story but BTS continues to grow at an incredible rate

yes but their music success is not organic in the west.

People are being too sensitive

I don't get why people care so much about it. If it's so easy to manipulate then why do you give it any credit? Just ignore the chart.

I mean, if bundles, radio payola, paid playlisting are used to manipulate the charts, it's also manipulation for fans to keep the song on the chart by collecting money from other fans outside the country. Playing by the rules does not change the fact that it is manipulation. If Billboard couldn't call all this manipulation and ask these questions to the western artists' faces, they shouldn't have done it BTS either. After all, everyone plays by the rules.

Quote from amalyas

... is because literally any other fandom can do the same thing. ARMY doesn't have a super-secret advantage over any over fanbase. They have learnt with time how charts worked, but that's something that every fanbase can do. And they do it, just not as efficiently as ARMY. Everyone can fund purchases. Everyone can organise streaming parties. This just asks for some dedication.

Do you want to call BTS success fandom-driven ? Alright. But ARMY is just playing the game better than other fanbase, and other players start throwing a tantrum because they are furious to not have the same amount of success.

Instead of crying over ARMY wrecking the game, maybe other fanbases should wonder why they are the only ones able to do so.

Other fandoms mass-buy too like Swifties but the main reason ppl complain is because BTS are a kpop boyband

Quote from reesul29

Other fandoms mass-buy too like Swifties but the main reason ppl complain is because BTS are a kpop boyband

i see people complaining here who are kpop fans so this logic makes no sense

Quote from bobsyouruncle

i see people complaining here who are kpop fans so this logic makes no sense

Yeah but I meant ppl who are fans of western artists, for kpop fans it's mostly jealousy tbh

Quote from bobsyouruncle

i see people complaining here who are kpop fans so this logic makes no sense

Kpop fans who are complaining on this topic are known haters. Only 4 kids complained and all of them are known BTS antis. That list now includes you.

If you really did dig deep before commenting this, you'll see none of the kpop (non BTS) fans are losing their sweat over this like you.

Just an advice. Start getting information about things you're talking about. Because you're starting to look dumb here on the forum now. Or better don't even comment.

Quote from reesul29

Yeah but I meant ppl who are fans of western artists, for kpop fans it's mostly jealousy tbh

kpop fans have funding accounts as well. many fandoms on this forum do... the only thing is they basically don't have a big enough fandom in the US for it to have a big big impact. that's why i find it funny when i see other kpop fans try to say anything

Quote from onlyfacts

Kpop fans who are complaining on this topic are known haters. Only 4 kids complained and all of them are known BTS antis. That list now includes you.

If you really did dig deep before commenting this, you'll see none of the kpop (non BTS) fans are losing their sweat over this like you.

Just an advice. Start getting information about things you're talking about. Because you're starting to look dumb here on the forum now.

how about instead of branding everyone who gives legitimate criticism about BTS as a 'hater' you instead learn to be able to take criticism??

no where on this forum have i hated on BTS. if anything, i'm an army who can admit that their current success in the billboard charts is not what people would call 'organic'. this doesnt have to be a bad thing, if you see it is an insult then thats on you.

Quote from worldlove27

kpop fans have funding accounts as well. many fandoms on this forum do... the only thing is they basically don't have a big enough fandom in the US for it to have a big big impact. that's why i find it funny when i see other kpop fans try to say anything

I don't think that's entirely true though, BTS have the biggest US fandom no doubt about it but they also have the smartest/most dedicated fandom in kpop, other kpop fans' funds are usually used for the bb200 which is why they can get top 5 albums in the US but can't even enter the hot 100.

Gonna use this thread to say my opinion about whole thing cause I don't see any other appropriate one.

Honestly fans' reaction to billboard articles is always hilarious af, the way they are screaming on twitter about 'vaccination' line while it's legit just 1 sentence in a whole hella long article is just

In latest years I almost never read their articles unless for few exceptions, but I decided to read this one due to one interesting thing from it I saw and I have to say it wasn't even that bad actually. Basically billboard haven't said any misinformation in the entire thing. They didn't even call BTS' fans tactics 'cheating' by themselves, they said fans of other competing acts like Dua and Olivia called it like that and billboard even said that other fans are trying to do same tactics as BTS' fans yet none of them are successful cause BTS' fans are quite on another level. And I don't even know why fans are disappointed about billboard pointing out that Butter got its hot100 wins due to fans' selling power, cause it's true, it's the only reason Butter won over Olivia, which is not bad, of course, and shows fans dedication more than anything else and spotify's shadiness with filtering should be an idea for another article but still Idk why ppl even mad on truth, I thought whole fandom was aware about the situation but I guess some deluded themselves. I also really loved Joon's answer to this. In overall I just want to say that whole part about sales/streams/charting was written more in neutral tone than negative one imo.

What I find the most interesting in whole thing, tbh for only this thing whole article was worth to be written and read, is how 'not all members agreed that English was a good idea, both HYBE and BTS declined to elaborate, but according to Bighit's Music Shin members "were mindful of the company's needs"'. Company stans will probably always scream about how members have a last say in everything and adults and have stocks and whatever else, but at least to some I hope it will open eyes at least, if they will try to read it by themselves and think critically without listening to all those screams about billboard apology.

Also if to try to sum up and make some conclusion from all that was there (and what we know in general): Joon's “There was no alternative" (regarding english), information about enlistment, 'company's needs', BTS bringing the biggest income to the company and hybe still not being able to substitute BTS with anybody else in case they won't be able to fully operate (aka enlistment) - then probably they and company are so desperate to win that Grammy cause this will give them an exemption. The common rule for exemption is biggest win, biggest achievement, representation of it and what can be bigger representation of it in music field than Grammy? No matter how much government bend laws for BTS to postpone enlistment they probably still can't give it to them directly (I guess the public's mood is still not fully on BTS' side unfortunately although it's definitely better than few years ago), but with Grammy in their hands they for sure will be able to do so.

Quote from kirla

Gonna use this thread to say my opinion about whole thing cause I don't see any other appropriate one.

Honestly fans' reaction to billboard articles is always hilarious af, the way they are screaming on twitter about 'vaccination' line while it's legit just 1 sentence in a whole hella long article is just

In latest years I almost never read their articles unless for few exceptions, but I decided to read this one due to one interesting thing from it I saw and I have to say it wasn't even that bad actually. Basically billboard haven't said any misinformation in the entire thing. They didn't even call BTS' fans tactics 'cheating' by themselves, they said fans of other competing acts like Dua and Olivia called it like that and billboard even said that other fans are trying to do same tactics as BTS' fans yet none of them are successful cause BTS' fans are quite on another level. And I don't even know why fans are disappointed about billboard pointing out that Butter got its hot100 wins due to fans' selling power, cause it's true, it's the only reason Butter won over Olivia, which is not bad, of course, and shows fans dedication more than anything else and spotify's shadiness with filtering should be an idea for another article but still Idk why ppl even mad on truth, I thought whole fandom was aware about the situation but I guess some deluded themselves. I also really loved Joon's answer to this. In overall I just want to say that whole part about sales/streams/charting was written more in neutral tone than negative one imo.

What I find the most interesting in whole thing, tbh for only this thing whole article was worth to be written and read, is how 'not all members agreed that English was a good idea, both HYBE and BTS declined to elaborate, but according to Bighit's Music Shin members "were mindful of the company's needs"'. Company stans will probably always scream about how members have a last say in everything and adults and have stocks and whatever else, but at least to some I hope it will open eyes at least, if they will try to read it by themselves and think critically without listening to all those screams about billboard apology.

Also if to try to sum up and make some conclusion from all that was there (and what we know in general): Joon's “There was no alternative" (regarding english), information about enlistment, 'company's needs', BTS bringing the biggest income to the company and hybe still not being able to substitute BTS with anybody else in case they won't be able to fully operate (aka enlistment) - then probably they and company are so desperate to win that Grammy cause this will give them an exemption. The common rule for exemption is biggest win, biggest achievement, representation of it and what can be bigger representation of it in music field than Grammy? No matter how much government bend laws for BTS to postpone enlistment they probably still can't give it to them directly (I guess the public's mood is still not fully on BTS' side unfortunately although it's definitely better than few years ago), but with Grammy in their hands they for sure will be able to do so.

Display More

TLDR: BTS is doing english releases to get a grammy so that they can get an army exemption.