Tiananmen Square museum in Hong Kong shut after three days

Why is it called a massacre when no protestors died?

Quote from Yan20

Why is it called a massacre when no protestors died?

lol

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wik…Tiananmen_Square_protests

Quote from Kouss

lol

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wik…Tiananmen_Square_protests

https://www.qiaocollective.com…tion/tiananmenreadinglist

Claims of deaths came years after the protests. At the time, including reports from American reporters who were present DURING the protests, found there was no military or police violence, and no deaths.

https://archives.cjr.org/behin…the_myth_of_tiananmen.php

https://worldaffairs.blog/2019…ction-and-propaganda/amp/

Even a WikiLeaks reveal, which are well known for exposing Government secrets, could find NO evidence of a massacre: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/ne…-Square-cables-claim.html

Also from the Japan Times, worth noting Japan is historically Anti-China, but had a delegation present in Tiananmen when the protests happened, and so were able to comment on the issue pretty well: https://www.japantimes.co.jp/o…d-tiananmen/#.XqcbqmAkphG

Fabricating a massacre at Tiananmen is just abhorrent. Perhaps the Government should not have shut down the protests, I agree, but to claim there was a massacre just to paint a negative picture of the Government, is throwing across the message as though protestors should have died for it to be a real protest.

A Spanish film crew filmed the entire protests and released them in a documentary, including when the square was cleared. They filmed and saw no murder, no brutality and no deaths;

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From NYTimes: https://www.washingtonpost.com…7/14/gIQAhF1MEI_blog.html

The Protest Leader stating she wished the Chinese Government killed protestors to help promote their movement, and that she was frustrated they reacted peacefully to the protests:

The Protest Leader asking protestors to incite violence, in the hopes the police would respond violently:

The man who took the Tank Man photo, also said there was no massacre, his name is Garou Hidalgo

CBS News: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/t…nmen-square-massacre/#app

Quote from Yan20

https://www.qiaocollective.com…tion/tiananmenreadinglist

Claims of deaths came years after the protests. At the time, including reports from American reporters who were present DURING the protests, found there was no military or police violence, and no deaths.

https://archives.cjr.org/behin…the_myth_of_tiananmen.php

https://worldaffairs.blog/2019…ction-and-propaganda/amp/

Even a WikiLeaks reveal, which are well known for exposing Government secrets, could find NO evidence of a massacre: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/ne…-Square-cables-claim.html

Also from the Japan Times, worth noting Japan is historically Anti-China, but had a delegation present in Tiananmen when the protests happened, and so were able to comment on the issue pretty well: https://www.japantimes.co.jp/o…d-tiananmen/#.XqcbqmAkphG

Fabricating a massacre at Tiananmen is just abhorrent. Perhaps the Government should not have shut down the protests, I agree, but to claim there was a massacre just to paint a negative picture of the Government, is throwing across the message as though protestors should have died for it to be a real protest.

A Spanish film crew filmed the entire protests and released them in a documentary, including when the square was cleared. They filmed and saw no murder, no brutality and no deaths;

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  Content embedded from external sources will not be displayed without your consent.

  Display all external content

  Through the activation of external content, you agree that personal data may be transferred to third party platforms. We have provided more information on this in our privacy policy.
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Are we arguing over whether it should be classified as a massacre or not, or are you claiming no one died?

Quote from Kouss

Are we arguing over whether it should be classified as a massacre or not, or are you claiming no one died?

Nobody died AT Tiananmen Square. There were between 200-300 casualties over the protests across the entire country, with roughly 220 of them being police officers and soldiers: https://www.counterpunch.org/2…nmen-the-empires-big-lie/

The students in other parts of the country were often violent and ruthless. The fake narrative that his was about "freedom, and democracy" is atrocious.

Soldiers were unarmed, and a Government document leak by WikiLeaks revealed that although the military wanted to use weapons, the Government strictly BANNED the military from firing guns at students

Nobody expected the protests to escalate like they did, soldiers and protesters exchanged food, had singing competitions and danced together in the streets. The deaths that did occur are due to a US CIA Operation, called Operation Yellowbird, in which the CIA paid militarists in China to shoot at police, in exchange for their extradition to America.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Yellowbird

Quote from Ms-Not-Nice

Its a ccp troll. its not worth arguing with it. No matter what you say to it. Its going to bulls*** their way into making the ccp look good. Even if it means screaming absurd lies while video evidence exists lol

no one with a sane mind actually thinks a dictatorship that is afraid of free speech and constantly censors people is good for the world

I sent the video evidence.

Quote from Yan20

Nobody died AT Tiananmen Square. There were between 200-300 casualties over the protests across the entire country, with roughly 220 of them being police officers and soldiers: https://www.counterpunch.org/2…nmen-the-empires-big-lie/

The students in other parts of the country were often violent and ruthless. The fake narrative that his was about "freedom, and democracy" is atrocious.

Soldiers were unarmed, and a Government document leak by WikiLeaks revealed that although the military wanted to use weapons, the Government strictly BANNED the military from firing guns at students

Nobody expected the protests to escalate like they did, soldiers and protesters exchanged food, had singing competitions and danced together in the streets. The deaths that did occur are due to a US CIA Operation, called Operation Yellowbird, in which the CIA paid militarists in China to shoot at police, in exchange for their extradition to America.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Yellowbird

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From what i’m seeing, it looked like very little if any deaths actually happened at Tiananmen Square, but in the surrounding streets after/during the crackdown.

Also i love how you completely placing blame on the US which is kinda negating your other points by making you look like a propagandist. Not questioning the validating of Operation Yellowbird but that compressing a very complex event (from what i’ve read) into purely America paid chinese militants to fight so they could be extradited sounds loony.

It’s not like, China has a real dissent problem and fighting broke out because of that. But no, just blame America. Both can be correct, but your ruining your argument for acting like China was 100% squeaky clean.

Quote from Kouss

From what i’m seeing, it looked like very little if any deaths actually happened at Tiananmen Square, but in the surrounding streets after/during the crackdown.

Also i love how you completely placing blame on the US which is kinda negating your other points by making you look like a propagandist. Not questioning the validating of Operation Yellowbird but that compressing a very complex event (from what i’ve read) into purely America paid chinese militants to fight so they could be extradited sounds loony.

It’s not like, China has a real dissent problem and fighting broke out because of that. But no, just blame America. Both can be correct, but your ruining your argument for acting like China was 100% squeaky clean.

If China had a real dissent problem, it would be a recurring issue. Not, days of peaceful protests followed by a very sudden escalation in violence, that immediately died out of after protest leaders were extradited, and then came fabrication about a massacre at the square.

Every document that has been leaked, ever Government communication that was revealed by Wikileaks, shows it was a sudden and very unexpected escalation. Normally Governments are on top of movements of dissent, they have access to a wealth of information on them. How did this slip through the cracks?

And why would there be such a huge fabrication of claims concerning a massacre? Shouldn't people be celebrating the fact there was no massacre?

Although I understand your point, and take it on board.

Quote from Yan20

If China had a real dissent problem, it would be a recurring issue. Not, days of peaceful protests followed by a very sudden escalation in violence, that immediately died out of after protest leaders were extradited, and then came fabrication about a massacre at the square.

Every document that has been leaked, ever Government communication that was revealed by Wikileaks, shows it was a sudden and very unexpected escalation. Normally Governments are on top of movements of dissent, they have access to a wealth of information on them. How did this slip through the cracks?

And why would there be such a huge fabrication of claims concerning a massacre? Shouldn't people be celebrating the fact there was no massacre?

Although I understand your point, and take it on board.

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China STILL has a dissent problem, are you living in another world? Hong Kong? Taiwan?

They are a oppressive state. China would have a dissent problem right now with Uyghurs if they weren’t institutionalizing the population, so i’m sorry if it’s believable that China cracked down hard enough on the dissenters that they stopped.

Quote from Kouss

China STILL has a dissent problem, are you living in another world? Hong Kong? Taiwan?

They are a oppressive state. China would have a dissent problem right now with Uyghurs if they weren’t institutionalizing the population, so i’m sorry if it’s believable that China cracked down hard enough on the dissenters that they stopped.

Hong Kong was also a small US backed protest movement, that has pretty much ended? And was also the fault of the British. Had Hong Kong never been stolen from China, it would not have existed.

Uyghurs are a free minority, living happy lives all over China. in Xinjiang there is a high Government satisfaction rate. The West has decided that Xinjiang is their new target of propaganda.

Quote from Yan20

Uyghurs are a free minority, living happy lives all over China. in Xinjiang there is a high Government satisfaction rate. The West has decided that Xinjiang is their new target of propaganda

Ok your just showing your are divorced from reality and i’m wasting my time.

Quote from Kouss

Ok your just showing your are divorced from reality and i’m wasting my time.

No, I am not. Being divorced from reality is accepting whatever you are told about a country you have never been too. The Xinjiang debacle is 2003 "Iraq has WMDs" all over again.

Quote from Yan20

No, I am not. Being divorced from reality is accepting whatever you are told about a country you have never been too. The Xinjiang debacle is 2003 "Iraq has WMDs" all over again.

There are Chinese Uyghurs who have escaped and state they’ve had no communication with loved ones in the region and have no idea if they are alive or not.

There is a ton of independent journalist reporting this. Not to mention videos of young men being taken at night in Xinjiang. I could go on and on.

Not to mention, the near police state that they live under, with video of all the security cameras and police littering the street.

Quote from Kouss

There are Chinese Uyghurs who have escaped and state they’ve had no communication with loved ones in the region and have no idea if they are alive or not.

There is a ton of independent journalist reporting this. Not to mention videos of young men being taken at night in Xinjiang. I could go on and on.

And I could debunk all of it. But the simplest possible evidence to exist, is that during the Myanmar Rohingya genocide crisis, that only effected 300,000 Muslims, there was a HUGE displacement issue. People fled, hundreds of thousands of people.

The Xinjiang "crisis", affecting over half of its population, has lead to some dozens of individuals, somehow being able to escape camps where people go to "die" and flee? No mass displacement? No movement of people out of the region?

Quote from Yan20

And I could debunk all of it. But the simplest possible evidence to exist, is that during the Myanmar Rohingya genocide crisis, that only effected 300,000 Muslims, there was a HUGE displacement issue. People fled, hundreds of thousands of people.

The Xinjiang "crisis", affecting over half of its population, has lead to some dozens of individuals, somehow being able to escape camps where people go to "die" and flee? No mass displacement? No movement of people out of the region?

Your conflating two different things tho. It’s a genocide versus mass-imprisonment, forced labor, and a police state to squash dissent. The Myanmar military was burning whole villages to the ground, the Rohingya had a choice of staying without a home with a chance of being killed or fleeing.

China’s goal is to reform the Uyghurs and to do so quietly. They aren’t mass slaughtering them and burning homes. They are abducting, imprisoning, and forcing compliance as the only avenue for release.

Quote from Kouss

Your conflating two different things tho. It’s a genocide versus mass-imprisonment, forced labor, and a police state to squash dissent. The Myanmar military was burning whole villages to the ground, the Rohingya had a choice of staying without a home with a chance of being killed or fleeing.

China’s goal is to reform the Uyghurs and to do so quietly. They aren’t mass slaughtering them and burning homes. They are abducting, imprisoning, and forcing compliance as the only avenue for release.

But they're not. There is no evidence of concentration camps, no evidence of forced labour, no evidence of mass imprisonment. The Uyghur population is growing.

And, you seriously think that people still wouldn't flee a life of mass imprisonment?

Quote from Yan20

Soldiers were unarmed, and a Government document leak by WikiLeaks revealed that although the military wanted to use weapons, the Government strictly BANNED the military from firing guns at students

Quote from Yan20

If China had a real dissent problem, it would be a recurring issue.

It wouldn't be a dissent issue if the CCP has tight enough controls. It never would be a dissent issue if you were silenced or straight up gone because of your dissenting views.