Posts by Hiakuryu

ok so this is

Quote from jklsjlkh

Yeah I agree with this. Anyone who's celebrating or devastated is overreacting, though as a Bunny, I'm disappointed for the girls. The only way the injunction would have been denied is if NJZ had very compelling, irrefutable evidence that there was a breach of contract. The court is basically saying, "hold on, ADOR might have a good argument too, so let's keep the status quo so there are no further damages done before a decision is made".

Hanni obtained a visa, presumably through their new agency, so I wonder if they signed new contracts already. And if so, are the new contracts void now with the injunction?

You know what's interesting to me? Now think on this.

Newjeans have recently discussed releasing a new song correct? They also spent a significant amount of time, effort and presumably their own money in preparing for the new song and the complexcon stage correct? Ador will now have to re-imburse them for this if the stage goes forwards no? Couldn't it actually harm them in the larger case if they don't?

Which leads to an imagined absurd situation where Ador are trying to force money on the girls and the girls doing everything they can to not accept the money. (If the girls accept the money then it means they accept that Ador are their management but if they don't accept the money then they don't accept that Ador are their management, which strengthens the positions respectively for the april court date).

Similarly if the song is now released, what does this mean for the IP ownership of the song? If this was done completely outside of the aegis of Ador, then they cannot actually take any kind of management ownership of it and the rights holders WILL take this to court. It would be easily provable that the writing, production etc etc of the IP had zero financial input from Ador so this would make a REAL mess.

Oooh man, dis gunna be fun. So many interesting legal questions.

Quote from BIGnorBANG

*cough*

Hong Kong-South Korea Judicial Rulings

Yes, that entirely agrees with me, even more. So... umm? ok?

Quote from BlackpinkHouse

I am torn. Out of respect for some of my fave Tokkis on here like Yama and Daisy, i am refraining from rubbing salt in the wounds of some of the more trollish genuinely dickish Tokkis (we all know who they are lol), the ones who went out of their way to form the biggest hate train in recent memory against LSRFM.

All i will say is there is such a thing as Izkarma. Every tongue that goes against Sakura and Chaewon will know hellfire before it's over.

Hellfire? LOL Holy shit buddy, this is just a management dispute. Chill, touch some grass...

Oh no someone said something mean about some people that you've been suckered into a parasocial relationship with.

You don't actually know these people for real. You know that right? Please god tell me that you know that. If you died tomorrow it wouldn't affect them at all, because they don't know you exist at all.

Quote from ThePhantomThief

The South Korean court ruling doesn't have jurisdiction in Hong Kong and can't be enforced.

yeeeeeeeah no, that's not how it works, the court has jurisdiction over them if purely by dint that 4 of them are South Korean citizens and you know they have to eventually go home. Not respecting a judges ruling is what we call "contempt of court". It's something you DON'T want to do.

Quote from WheelyFab

The judge made a point by point ruling and gave a verdict that the presented arguments of mistreatment and copying are not true.

Sources and citation please? I presume this means you've read the actual ruling? Logically this means you can also link to it and share with the rest of the class...

Otherwise shut up and stop spouting nonsense.

Quote from naanoway

bunnies really thought you can terminate a contract if you get your feefees hurt

That hasn't been decided yet, that you think todays decision on a preliminary injunction tells me you know literally less than nothing about the legal side of things.

Quote from breadz

let's all kill ourselves

why?

Quote from 0ppar

well...I guess it's back to the dungeon for them.

What?

Quote from Yama-Chan

Says who?

HYBE ignored an injunction loss, and so can they. NJZ already said they're not going back to FRAUDOR no matter what, and their team had to be prepared for a best case scenario and a worst case scenario.

It's simply time for Plan B.

The tweets and everyone reading keep on missing the most important part about this injunction, which I said was likely to happen.

This is a preliminary injunction UNTIL the court case has been heard.

It's there to preserve the status quo ante until a final decision has been made on the case by the court.

This wasn't a loss or a win or an anything, I've sat through over a dozen lawsuits and in every single case a preliminary injunction was granted to keep things as is until the case had been decided on.

Quote from Prongs

But I am scared now.

Is The injunction result more like saying their termination is not valid or it is just saying they need to wait until their lawsuit finish ?

the latter...

Quote from onwards

Interesting insight into how Hybe (and likely the industry) trains idols.

But the fact that MHJ was shocked gives me pause. She was in SM of all places for decades, what was Hybe doing that would shock a long time SM exec? Or did Hybe tell her they were very different with their trainees and she was shocked at how bad the lie was?

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This is pretty much standardised operant conditioning, it's been used by militaries across the world during basic training and this period of time and enforcement is called INDOC short for indoctrination.

After it starts it gets rigidly reinforced during the rest of basic this only really works with teenagers really.

Quote from OopsEncoreMoi

The girls seem very confident, but can they win in court ?

ok so here's the deal, there's what lawyers say for public consumption

"Of course we will win! We have the law on our side!"

and then there's what the lawyers actually say in private.

"Going to court is always a giant crapshoot, we've done the best we can with what we've got... the rest is up to the judges now."

Anyone trying to tell you that the decision is a foregone conclusion is straight up lying to you.

Quote from Yama-Chan

They did an approximate total of 0 times.

They meant exactly what they implied, and a couple smooth brains commented in support of it.

But I got banned for saying the thread is too toxic.

you wanna see the hybe stans on the main page article comments then, there's a bunch of recurring people on there who basically have literally less than zero legal experience spreading a buncha toxic shit and calling them brats etc

They also seem to have a giant hate boner for Sophie Ha too, whoever she is.

Quote from Yama-Chan

The true satire? The many Reddit subject matter experts and specialists that keep popping up to weigh in with their vast volumes of experience in every relevant and related field touched by this case.

They're all lawyers and law students

No, hold on, they're marketing directors and analysts for big companies.

Oh wait, they're also immigration officers and work in Korean visa administration

Ah sorry, TODAY it's

I have one last Friday morning brand related rant lol

As the brand contact for a project, I don't care about the partners and/or ambassador's brands during content reviews. My first priority when reviewing content is to ensure that my brand is prominent. My logos are accurate. I just want you to sing my brand name over and over.

It is on the other partner's brand team to ensure their brand assets are accurate. To make sure they pass to me the right logos and pinpoint any mistakes. If you want to go by a surname, first name, nick name, fan name...I don't care as long as you tell me the decision in a timely fashion.

I don't know. I kind of wish folks knew how much brand people are just trying to do their jobs and general don't really care about much as long as the project is progressing. They are not the warriors choosing sides folks want them to be.

Now they're BRAND CONTACTS FOR A PROJECT.

Did anyone tell them their school projects don't count?

LMAO

Reddit is already so damn hilarious. Even if the injunction passes, it won't actually stop NJZ. They'll just have money to pay, which can be reduced substantially by the courts regardless

But the entertainment from watching these meltdowns? Priceless.

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Question, did any of these experts actually quote the relevant laws at any point and you know actually cite them?

Quote from Yama-Chan

The reddit coping begins

Ablume posted new idol content on their channel and I think this is a sneak peek of NewJeans' future. They'll keep being idols even if they lose the lawsuit like Ablume did. NewJeans is also more famous and have a huge fanbase.

I think we should prepare ourselves to be disappointed just in case. In our eyes, everything is indisputable with evidence but the justice system can be unpredictable. NewJeans might never lose their fanbase and I'm almost impressed with how bulletproof they are. MHJ really built a strong brand of innocence and youth.

If Ablume could find new investors despite *losing* their court cases and appeals, it's safe to say NewJeans will easily find investors too. It doesn't make sense for us but we should just brace ourselves if karma never happens. The world can be unfair like that sometimes.

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I've read this seven times now and don't understand it, who the hell is Ablume? Did the original author have a stroke? It's a fucking word salad... I've seen more comprehensible english from fucking ChatGPT.

Quote from Yama-Chan

My sources tell me that the likeliest cope, should the injunction filed by HYBE be denied, is that HYBE can just file more lawsuits and it's just an injunction, not the main lawsuit.

Oh, to be so deeply entrenched in ignorance and hate that it becomes impossible to see the clear writing on the wall, if the injunction is dismissed.

In specific this would be called a preliminary injunction. This is often done in advance before a case has been heard to preserve the situation as is, status quo ante, before any permanent damages/events can occur. It really isn't a huge deal and is VERY much part of the standard operating practice for many lawsuits with contractual disputes.

The Difference Between a Temporary Restraining Order and a Preliminary Injunction

While similar, there are identifiable differences between temporary restraining orders and preliminary injunctions, and each of them has a specific place.

pjtagency.com

Quote

While similar, there are identifiable differences between temporary restraining orders and preliminary injunctions, and each of them has a specific place in the legal system. Each one also means a different thing for your case.

These are the major differences between preliminary injunctions and temporary restraining orders.

What is a Preliminary Injunction?

A preliminary injunction is generally used by the court to restrain a party from taking a certain action while a case is pending, awaiting settlement, or is otherwise undecided or undetermined. Preliminary injunctions (as their name implies) are only handed down by a judge before a case begins — when it is still in the preliminary stages. This is usually done to protect a party from possible action of another party, and is used to preserve the status quo of a situation (i.e. keep everything the same while the case moves forward).

To obtain a preliminary injunction, the party must demonstrate to the court that they will suffer irreparable harm if a certain action is taken. Other parties may appeal the preliminary injunction if they believe it is unnecessary or harmful to them. An injunction bond may also be required by the court in the event that they hand down a preliminary injunction in a case. There are also cases where requesting a preliminary injunction can be of strategic value, particularly when it comes to businesses dealing with non-competes.

What is a Temporary Restraining Order?

A temporary restraining order (TRO) acts in a similar manner as a preliminary injunction in that it is an order passed down by the court preventing a party from taking a certain action. They are essentially emergency injunctions used by the court in specific situations. The primary differences between a temporary restraining order and a preliminary injunction are:

Their duration: TROs are generally used as a temporary solution until a more permanent injunction can be put into place.

Their use: TROs are usually used in emergency situations to prevent immediate harm to a party, such as a business transaction, etc. In cases where there may immediate physical harm to a person, bonds are not required.

How they are handed down: TROs do not always require a hearing (depending on the circumstances) and they can be issued without informing the party they are issued against. When it comes to non-life-threatening situations, like the above example of non-compete, a hearing is generally required.

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In this case because hearings have been scheduled and occurred they would be called and considered preliminary injunctions as opposed to TRO's but the effect of them is much the same, the difference in the name is due to the the process in obtaining them.

Quote from patrik-k

Just saying, everything you claim is just small minor issues even it's true, nothing that would be big enough to say it's a major breach of the contract.

1. Did NJ get all they recources and means to fullfill their common goals? Yes. The group was a huge success and you can't claim it was not.

2. Did they get fair payment ? Oh yes, fillty rich

The only thing you can accuse the company for is that they gave the group so boring songs, but hey some people likes themt so I don't think thats enough to call it a breach of contract.

Anyway, it will be good if this mess can speed up so we can get a verdict soon.

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Because it's the world of "patrik-k says so"? You're going to need more than that buddy.

Logical reasoning. I laid out the actual statutory law and the logical framework by which it can occur.

The cogent and intelligent response would not be "Nah euh" because literally that is all you've written. You've not explained why it isn't showing a pattern of behaviour, you've not explained or shown the logic or cited anything at all.

Frankly I'm done with the inspid morons who think they have something to contribute. They don't. Their commentary is not interesting.

If someone wants to actually debate me on the law and can bring it. I will happily and respectfully debate them, but sub-moronic oxygen thieves who peaked at high school are going to receive all the scorn that they deserve in any of my future replies.

Annnnnd blocked.

Quote from Irari

Not to be a downer, I don't understand how a petition can possibly help. Is there a legal standing for it or?

it's called an amicus curiae

Quote from patrik-k

The "problem" that a lot of NJ fans miss, it takes a lot do have a valid reason to be able to terminate a contract, just some minorr issues here and there not enoug. It must be major issues and it far from any major issues. I mean,... they are complaing about some member from an other kpop group are not saying hello to them when they met each other... I mean... ... helllo............is that something do drag up in court? Are the girls not over 20 not? Are they proud to bring silly stuff like that up in court?

Why aren't you bringing up the other issues they brought up and just the greeting? I've also stated previously in this post here and quoting myself again...

Quote

Already seen it and he's (he being the South Korean lawyer on youtube) a bit of a joke with his analysis.

He brings up all of the issues as if they were seperate and distinct issues to be taken individually and would fail under court scrutiny which I agree with the analysis. But he misses the most obvious point when it's entirely obvious to any halfway decent legal strategist or attorney that the case they're building is to show a pattern of behaviour from Ador to themselves.

I'm not sure how he misses this considering it's basic case building 101.

For example in employment discrimination it's almost impossible to prove claims and allegations from single incidences of behaviour.

Discrimination in the workplace can take various forms; direct discrimination, indirect discrimination, harassment and victimisation. Being treated less favourably than someone else can vary from not being hired due to a protected characteristic to being treated in a way that causes you emotional or physical suffering. Proving discrimination, however, can be complex and requires substantial evidence.

For instance, evidence might need to demonstrate a pattern of behaviour over time, not just a single incident, to effectively illustrate systemic or ingrained discriminatory practices. This could involve showing how decision-making processes, like promotions or pay raises, consistently favoured one group over another. Additionally, evidence can come from a variety of sources, including internal communications, employee witness statements and business records. All of these elements combined can help to paint a comprehensive picture of the discriminatory behaviour experienced, strengthening your Employment Tribunal case.

Yet it's obvious that NJ is trying to show this in their claims for termination. I simply don't understand how someone can claim to be an attorney and miss this in it's entirety.

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Emphasis mine. I'm agreeing with the south korean lawyer that taking the claims individually has no merit, but only an idiot would build a case like that.

Taken as a whole in a pattern of behaviour of Ador/Hybe's behaviour towards Newjeans shows a shocking disregard about their duties of care and the duties in their contract towards Newjeans.

This is case building 101 that even undergrad students learn to do in moot court.

Quote from ThePhantomThief

Therein is the dilemma

You can't force them to go back. Absolutely.

But... there can't be a precedent set or a "revolving door" where idols can boost off a company for training, promotion, influence and visibility and then say "You can't keep me here, I'm out, sucks to be you" and reap the benefits.

So whats the happy medium of letting idols out of contracts if they really need to, or if a situation has compeltely, without also meaning the companies have to eat it?

A more forward and progressive industry (and culture tbh) would possibly create an independent arbitration committee that isn't beholden to the companies OR the idols, but committed to working towards resolutions that are mutually agreeable (but not always beneficial) to both parties. And one that can do it QUICKLY, so both sides know fast enough where they stand.

And again, I mean this in a more broad brush, industry wide point of view. Not explicitly Hybe/Ador v NJZ. Hybe can suck a big one in all of this.

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5000% this, Ador wants to win this because they ABSOLUTELY don't want to set a precedent, on the other hand they don't want to win this either because of the massive amounts of scrutiny that is going to be hanging over every single move they make after.

This is something KMCA and all those other associations aren't gaming out... If Ador/Hybe wins this, it's a world of shit they're going to be facing from the fandom more than they're going to want to ever deal with. Also you really don't want a band working for you when the relationship is this broken down.

But as you said intimated yourself this is SK we're talking about. They're not super big on workers rights at all, hell this is the country that brought us the wonderful concept of gapjil.

The only reasonable compromise I can see from this is a sealed settlement with NDA's. Probably a new holding company to be setup and profits from future Newjeans activites will be split between Ador and the girls for a long time. But Hybe won't see it that way and someone with sense is going to have to beat their heads over a stick with this.

Future contracts will be tough but the government has already stepped in with their standard idol contracts and if they try to push back... I'm not sure this kind of explotative behaviour is good for the long term health of the industry either.

Quote from selfmate

absolutely my friend I 100% agree with you

I guess I should've said the final decision maker (after all appeals have been exhausted)

after the apellate court then you can appeal to the supreme court of south korea if the appellate court allows this, if they do not. Tough shit. If the Supreme court of South Korea agrees to hear the case great, and again if they do not. Tough shit.

Quote from DaisyTheGenuine

Obviously a company run by gaming bros that implements a uneven, poorly executed multi-label system is eventually going to see its only truly independent label making a break for it.

Well that presumes the original accusation by Hybe was legitimate and to this day I still have major problems with the accusation. The first being that it's impossible or the other one ISN'T actually a betrayal of trust so they're nonsense.

Quote from patrik-k

I have always said I will admit I was wrong, but I still will think it's will be wrong if it's so easy to break a contract. Cry like a baby and complain about minor issues that is nothing and break a contract? But It hard to see they will get a "totally win" in this. I would guess the court would be happy for some kind of settlment or a ruling that makes both have some kind of half-victory, would probably please the public also.

You're wrong.

I've quoted the civil code of the Republic of Korea, scholarly analysis and case law supporting this right.

If Party A breaches the contract and cannot make amends after a reasonable amount of time then Party B is absolutely allowed to terminate the contract.

This is absolutely not up for debate anymore. It is that easy.

NOW the crux of the matter is whether the reasons that Newjeans gave for termination are legitimate or not. But procedurally everything that Newjeans did was 100% correct.

I'll explain one more time

1. Newjeans sends certified letter of their demands and gives notice of 14 days.

2. Ador does not respond or fix the demands of rectification of the issues within business hours after 14 days.

3. Newjeans then terminates the contract.

Every single step as followed is 100% legal and correct.

What is in question is whether the demands themselves were valid or not.

Newjeans has the legal right to terminate the contract and followed every single step as required to make it valid. They did not cut corners, they did not take shortcuts. Everything done was legally correct.

Here is the but, but were the reasons as stated enough to claim a breach of contract? Well Newjeans thinks so, Ador doesn't. So this is why there is now a court date.

Quote from Yama-Chan

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OH HEY! Look... a lawyer who agrees with me, now where is that annoying Karen again?

Quote from Uni909

Just wanna ask everyone here this worst case scenario: What happens if the court decides the contract terminaton is illegal and NJZ must return to Ador? Because that scenario is not out of the question...

BunniesTaglist

Well that would fall under if the judge did not think their claims were enough, which is a possibility.

The issue after would be that they're now stuck in a situation that 95% of the world is in, working for a boss they hate. At that point they just have to make do the best they can with the circumstances they find themselves in or find some other way to deal with the situation.

Also tbh this would be kinda awful for Ador and Hybe because EVERYONE including the court we be hyper fucking vigilant about any kind of mis-treatment or so on...