Did right: Seventeen, Stray Kids, TxT, iKon
Did wrong:
- NCT. Around 2017 I Thought they would keep stuck in sub average level of success
- The Boyz. thought they would be much bigger. Their growth stalled after Kindgom
- Ateez: Thought they would become a dark horse of 4th gen and eventually reach a big popularity, but after many years they are still fandom-driven group
Is this title a reference to Taylor Swift? I don't know if I get how it relates to Twice chart performance?
Would still be a top group
But not THE biggest group
Hybe intensified their presence in Japan, USA and Europe
The markets where I don't think Hybe helped in any way are SEA and China
Korea I'm not sure. I always had the impression they were in the limiar of becoming a top group there. Since Pledis is shit they could have destroyed the group before they finally exploded, not sure
Korea/China - IVE
Elsewhere - LSRF
LSRF already surpassed IVE total streams by 300 million and is currently doing 3x more streams than IVE. The answer is clear
I literally told yall not to turn it into fanwar and that's exactly what you did
Talking about how your faves are different when I am asking you to address to widespread issue in the industry.
We get it, your faves are exceptional. Lets discuss the industry.
Hyping my faves is more fun than discussing the industry I'm sorry
As far as I remember I don't think EXO ever got any controversy regarding their vocals
I love this song, It's one of my favorites!
really? why do you think it's bad? I'm just curious lol
Weird structure. They repeating "New things, new things" is annoying. I also hate the high notes full of auto tune during the bridge.
Tbh to a lot of Asian immigrant crowd (many of whom are rich with rich parents in tech) a few hundred dollar to see cons is very very common. Esp LA, Bay Area, and these big cities that kpop groups visit.
67% of asian-brazillians lives in São Paulo, which is precisely the state where the kpop concerts are held. They are mostly middle class, not wealthy. Regardless asian brazillians are minority in the crowd, we don't have as many asians descent as USA
I would call it “kpop GP” or “multis” and outside of east Asia this is the audience you need to appeal to the most. Like how I saw blackpink in concert. A bunch of my friends and co workers did as well. None of us ever bought an album nor stream hard but would go to kpop concerts because we enjoy kpop.
This is a very sizable portion of the US audience.
Not the case for Brazillians. International concerts are crazy expensive here, and most people travel thousands of kilometers to watch the concert . There must be some non fans among the crowd but they were mostly onces, no doubt about it.
This song is so bad. I will never understand how it blew up so much 
A lot of copium from usual suspects. Like yeah bro, definitely, people who go on Twice concerts are all hardcore fans. I wish that was true indeed
Do you really think GP is willing to pay hundreds of dollars to watch a Korean girlgroup? 
Well at least where I live I can assure people attending to their concerts were fans, not locals
This is true, but well the most popular group in kpop is BTS since 2017 regardless of the metric we are using
Wow I'm happy most people here are actually defending tokkis and only attacking Yama
Thanks you guys 
This is not straightforward for me
A tier:
I love NJ and like RV. I could elaborate further but I simply enjoy both groups
B tier:
I enjoy LSRF a lot as performers and their discography is good, I think the group lack of strong musical identity and lacking of vocal skills are preventing me to jump in them for good
Mamamoo is amazing live and have good songs, I think they comes next. However they subtle change in music direction post the 4 seasons project was a turn off for me which decreased them from A to B tier
C tier:
Neutral towards Gfriend. They are talented and gave many good songs but their career is largely redundant
G Idle is... alright I guess? They used to be much better. I appreciate their efforts to be different than other groups both musically and conceptually and the fact they are self produced surely deserves praise but otherwise same opinion of GFriend, talented group I simply don't care for
D tier:
Aespa discography is one of the worst among Big 4 girlies. IVE is just basic and boring. They are in the bottom of the list. But so are Twice and Blackpink. I will still choose BP and Twice over Aespa and IVE. Those groups are iconic at least, can't say the same about IVE and Aespa 
In all I will choose the 3rd gen, simply because I can't think anything positive on Aespa and IVE to choose over TWICE and Blackpink
It's funny to see the "vocals don't matter" discourse every time a group is criticized for such, because these people are the first to get triggered when the topic gets brought up. You don't see this happen with rapping skills or dancing skills, definitely not at the same level.
There are discussions about skills but the vocals subject always blow up at much bigger proportions. There are several threads about encore and vocal skills in the last few days, people really put a lot of thought is vocals, admitting or not
I love how vocals are such a sensitive topic among kpop fans. Everytime a big group has a low quality stage or encore dozens of discussions like this arrive.
This shows that deep down vocals are still, by far, the most important skill for singers and kpop fans knows that, but collectively pretend to not care because good quality vocals hardly (if ever) align with their set of favored groups
