Italians is trending in the United States because of itzy

Quote from fd-insomnia

Ehm no... I'm italian and mafia is an italian word. Mafia is the criminal organization of Sicily. The South of Italy was very poor in the 20th century and a lot of italians from Sicily moved in the USA. Unfortunately also some mafiosi moved in the States and they established gangs there. So americans started to use the word "mafia" as a synonymous of criminal organization

I speak Italian and I'm of Italian descent, if you think credentials are important to make a point here... Either way, you're blaming Americans for "appropriating" a word to make Italians look bad when it's not remotely true. Even the word "mafia" is theorized to be derived from Arabic words when Sicily was still an Islamic Emirate and the English language eventually incorporated the word into its vocabulary possibly due to the Italian immigrants back in the days, but in our present days the term doesn't necessarily makes a reference to the "Sicilian Mafia".

In fact, the word has been incorporated by other languages and it no longer refers to the "Sicilian mafia", in Korean the word "Mafia" refers to a game and that's what Itzy's MV is about. And it's simple as that. Words lose their initial meaning throughout time and the term "mafia" is right now a very generic word to refer to any sort of criminal organization, and again, not necessarily the "Sicilian Mafia". As far as I can remember, the "Sicilian Mafia" that you keep referring to don't call themselves "mafia", but rather "Casa Nostra".

It boggles my mind that some Italians are mad that a word is being used by people from other nationalities but refuse to understand the context on how it's being used or just simply refuse to do some research, not to mention Italian is full of words and terms from many other languages.

Quote from dummi

then the problem is in the game itself since it inspired the mv also how do you feel about all the mafia skits on tiktok etc? shows about the mafia?? I feel like its a trending thing

Yes, unfortunately it's a trendy thing and that's the reason why we are trying to explain why it shouldn't be. About the shows it depends, if the show represent the mafia as something cool i'm totally against it.

Quote from Mark-Lee

I speak Italian and I'm of Italian descent, if you think credentials are important to make a point here... Either way, you're blaming Americans for "appropriating" a word to make Italians look bad when it's not remotely true. Even the word "mafia" is theorized to be derived from Arabic words when Sicily was still an Islamic Emirate and the English language eventually incorporated the word into its vocabulary possibly due to the Italian immigrants back in the days, but in our present days the term doesn't necessarily makes a reference to the "Sicilian Mafia".

In fact, the word has been incorporated by other languages and it no longer refers to the "Sicilian mafia", in Korean the word "Mafia" refers to a game and that's what Itzy's MV is about. And it's simple as that. Words lose their initial meaning throughout time and the term "mafia" is right now a very generic word to refer to any sort of criminal organization, and again, not necessarily the "Sicilian Mafia". As far as I can remember, the "Sicilian Mafia" that you keep referring to don't call themselves "mafia", but rather "Casa Nostra".

It boggles my mind that some Italians are mad that a word is being used by people from other nationalities but refuse to understand the context on how it's being used or just simply refuse to do some research, not to mention Italian is full of words and terms from many other languages.

So you should know what is anti italianism. All the prejudice and discrimination against Italians in the USA during the 20th century was because we were associated to the mafia.

Yes it's true that the word mafia lost part of his original meaning and that's why they are also called Cosa Nostra now, but here in Italy when we talk about Mafia we are talking about the Sicilian criminal oganization.

We are not mad because they are using an italian word. The problem is that no one should romanticize it or use it as an aesthetic or something funny, because it gives the wrong message and it makes it look like something cool.

Quote from fd-insomnia

So you should know what is anti italianism. All the prejudice and discrimination against Italians in the USA during the 20th century was because we were associated to the mafia.

Yes it's true that the word mafia lost part of his original meaning and that's why they are also called Cosa Nostra now, but here in Italy when we talk about Mafia we are talking about the Sicilian criminal oganization.

Are ITZY promoting in Italy? Are they singing in Italian? Again, they're using the word "mafia" based on their own language and their own context, not making a reference to any mafiosi italiani.

And why do you keep bringing up Americans to the discussion exactly? The song isn't in English either.

Quote from ClementineRuby

Hi! I'm an Italian American with Sicilian great grandparents. I'm a little disappointed to see the lack of understanding that this community has shown towards this topic. Glorification of crime and violence is a real problem in America, to the point that I think many citizens are desensitized to it. You can see a slight obsession with the "aesthetic" associated with crime gangs, both in the States and South Korea. And since ITZY is trying to pave the way for their popularity in America, it seems that their marketing team and composers chose this as the focal theme for their song (or is it a whole album?)

The image of Italian and Italian Americans have been negatively impacted by entertainment like "The Godfather." If these stereotypes find their way into something as mainstream as K-Pop, I'm afraid that it's only going to get worse.

Anyway, I just wanted you to know that you're not alone in your opinion. I don't blame ITZY, because to my knowledge, they don't have much control over the composition or marketing of their music. Hopefully the songs don't contain the word "Mafia" a lot. If they don't the company can simply change the title and it will pass over.

I don't blame Itzy , I know that it's not their fault. I'm not even asking the company to change the name of the song. I just want people to understand why it is wrong, because medias (especially movies and tv shows) are painting mafiosi just like rich and powerful families and romanticizing it. Yes, they are rich and powerful, but they are criminals, they torture and kill men, women and kids. They are involved in drug trafficking, prostitution, fraud, corruption and slavery.

Quote from Mark-Lee

Are ITZY promoting in Italy? Are they singing in Italian? Again, they're using the word "mafia" based on their own language and their own context, not making a reference to any mafiosi italiani.

And why do you keep bringing up Americans to the discussion exactly? The song isn't in English either.

Because they are clearly trying to break in the american market and to be famous internationally, so it's obvious that people outside Korea will receive the message that mafia is cool, because they don't know the korean context.

And when someone use the word mafia everybody think about Italy, since we are known as "pizza, pasta, mafia e mandolino"

Quote from fd-insomnia

They are involved in drug trafficking, prostitution, fraud, corruption and slavery.

Do you really think you're teaching something right now? Do you think we were born yesterday?

I know all of this, but I can do the difference between fiction and reality. Your rant comes from the same place as those who blame video games for everything, like "omg GTA is so nasty it should be banned! Because killing and driving over people is wrong!" Yes it's wrong, thanks Captain Obvious. But it's not the real world.

Quote from fd-insomnia

I don't blame Itzy , I know that it's not their fault. I'm not even asking the company to change the name of the song. I just want people to understand why it is wrong, because medias (especially movies and tv shows) are painting mafiosi just like rich and powerful families and romanticizing it. Yes, they are rich and powerful, but they are criminals, they torture and kill men, women and kids. They are involved in drug trafficking, prostitution, fraud, corruption and slavery.

I completely get this if I’m being honest. I’ve been reading your responses and I just want to thank you for speaking up. I wasn’t seeing a lot of Italians complaining about it so I just thought that some people were making a big deal out of nothing. I think your perspective puts everything into a different light, and could really open the eyes of many people who don’t understand the severity of the situation. While I do love and support Itzy, I do acknowledge that this is affecting a lot of people, even if it’s not Itzy’s fault themselves. The things that the mafia’s did were completely messed up and I hear you on that.

Quote from fd-insomnia

Because they are clearly trying to break in the american market and to be famous internationally, so it's obvious that people outside Korea will receive the message that mafia is cool, because they don't know the korean context.

And when someone use the word mafia everybody think about Italy, since we are known as "pizza, pasta, mafia e mandolino"

The MV doesn't make any cultural reference to Italy or mafiosi italiani. They're not appropriating anything.

And when you stop the generalization, I may be willing to have this discussion with you again.

Quote from crystalblues

But that's not true. It's simply not. I've seen not one person misunderstand it and that's because so far everyone who listens to the song has done their research on the meaning. It was trending in Italy two days ago and everyone loved the song and concept that commented on it in italian, once they looked into it and saw it wasn't romantically showcasing mafia members.

I've seen a lot of people posting selfie with the caption "i'm the mafia, we do it like a mafia" and posing like cool bad guys. And this is going to add to all the tik toks with the girls who are faking to be the wives of mafia boss. We are tired of seeing mafia glamourized and treated like something trendy.

But I think that the most offensive part of all of this is not even the song, but the fact that people from other nationalities mocked us replying to us with "pasta, pizza, mamma mia" or "go to cook meatballs"

Quote from Mark-Lee

The MV doesn't make any cultural reference to Italy or mafiosi italiani. They're not appropriating anything.

And when you stop the generalization, I may be willing to have this discussion with you again.

I've never said that the problem is the appropriation. We don't want mafia and we don't want to be associated to that, but unfortunately the stereotype of the Italian is the mafioso because of movies like The Godfather.

And we are tired of seeing mafia glamourized and treated like something cool or trendy, because it's not.

Quote from TatasKookie123

I completely get this if I’m being honest. I’ve been reading your responses and I just want to thank you for speaking up. I wasn’t seeing a lot of Italians complaining about it so I just thought that some people were making a big deal out of nothing. I think your perspective puts everything into a different light, and could really open the eyes of many people who don’t understand the severity of the situation. While I do love and support Itzy, I do acknowledge that this is affecting a lot of people, even if it’s not Itzy’s fault themselves. The things that the mafia’s did were completely messed up and I hear you on that.

Thank you! That's all I want. I don't hate Itzy and I don't think it's their fault. I blame the company, but I also understand why they thought it was a good idea, because unfortunately a lot of medias make the mafia look like something trendy and cool.

Quote from crystalblues

I will fully agree I did not agree with that but do think the non Italians being outraged on the behalf of Italians when we weren't that bothered as much as they were is also frustrating for myself and my Nana didn't seem to like it when I showed her a lot of it either.

Yes, unfortunately there will always be people who is just looking for drama. And I think it's also normal that not every italians are bothered, not everyone had the same experience and the same sensibility. Mafia is an issue for Italy from the North to the South, but the one who suffer the most are the people of the South. Probably a North Italian will be less bothered

Quote from fd-insomnia

Thank you! That's all I want. I don't hate Itzy and I don't think it's their fault. I blame the company, but I also understand why they thought it was a good idea, because unfortunately a lot of medias make the mafia look like something trendy and cool.

Of course! You’re welcome! I completely get it! I think the Italians that are offended should be heard, and people should have a bit more sympathy when it’s obviously affecting people in a negative way. I blame the company as well. They should have done their research a bit more before taking on something they obviously had zero knowledge about. And yeah, the media portrays the mafia gang in a different light. I didn’t really think much of it because like you said, it is portrayed as cool or trendy or not as serious as it really is.

What about bear attacks though? It's a serious issue too. People get killed all the time.

Quote from Alex_Murphy

I hope I will never see you crying about idols doing something offensive for your country or doing cultural appropriation, because it would be very hypocritical from you.