whilst true I'm not talking about specific songs per say but rather popularity overall
I said this in another thread If I said if BP weren't around would BM be more popular as fans of BP would gravitate towards BM
bm had some time to establish themselves because of bp reputation of being too lazy to release stuff. i don't think bm has the it group factor that bp has even if bp disbands today
interesting
I'm talking about getting a share of the kpop pie so to speak that if an active senior is around then those fans who might have otherwise moved on to their juniors will continue around and stay fans of their seniors...now that's not to say a person cannot like both a senior group and junior group but each fan's time and $$$ are limited
For SM this is not a problem, because fans of senior groups are often anti of junior groups.
You will never see f(x) fans supporting Red Velvet, Red Velvet fans supporting aespa, aespa fans supporting H2h, SHINee fans supporting EXO, EXO fans supporting NCT and vice versa.
never? hmmm...
I guess that's another interesting question whether if a person was a fan/stan of a junior group how likely are they to also be a stan/fan of the senior group within the same company
would you say that during RV heyday ("peak" so to speak not debut) that both snsd and fx were winding down? I wouldn't even begin to know when their peak or heyday was but maybe Red Flavour? again I wasn't around during that time so I couldn't really say either way
Red Flavor came out right before SNSD's last comeback as an active group. Maybe some Sones jumped ship to RV due to fears of SNSD disbanding or going on hiatus, which they did, but they hadn't actually cleared the way for them to be SM's main girl group just yet.
F(x) was already gone by that point, but frankly it wouldn't have mattered either way. They were never destined to be anything more than an experimental side hustle for SM, not the heirs to the throne. They were the Prince Harry of SM girl groups (Hearts2Hearts might inherit this title if they don't start making some waves soon.)
I also disagree with the notion that Twice are keeping their JYP juniors down. Those groups wouldn't have reached bigger heights with or without Twice being there. Especially Nmixx, who never had any hype. Twice aren't even popular in Korea anymore, a fact everyone loves to reiterate.
You will never see f(x) fans supporting Red Velvet
You need to explain foreveraespaaa actions. Sometimes I can barely breathe from the amount of H2H threads she has posted!
You mean that person exists?
You need to explain foreveraespaaa actions. Sometimes I can barely breathe from the amount of H2H threads she has posted!
She must be from some kind of rare breeds.
You mean that person exists?
Me, I'm that person.
You need to explain foreveraespaaa actions. Sometimes I can barely breathe from the amount of H2H threads she has posted!
You mean that person exists?
She must be from some kind of rare breeds.
Gosh thanks guys 
Display MoreRed Flavor came out right before SNSD's last comeback as an active group. Maybe some Sones jumped ship to RV due to fears of SNSD disbanding or going on hiatus, which they did, but they hadn't actually cleared the way for them to be SM's main girl group just yet.
F(x) was already gone by that point, but frankly it wouldn't have mattered either way. They were never destined to be anything more than an experimental side hustle for SM, not the heirs to the throne. They were the Prince Harry of SM girl groups (Hearts2Hearts might inherit this title if they don't start making some waves soon.)
I also disagree with the notion that Twice are keeping their JYP juniors down. Those groups wouldn't have reached bigger heights with or without Twice being there. Especially Nmixx, who never had any hype. Twice aren't even popular in Korea anymore, a fact everyone loves to reiterate.
so maybe I was right in saying snsd was in their downturn?
noted
they may not have the charting power anymore but I don't think one can say twice aren't popular in SK - they obviously aren't the same as their peak but to say they aren't popular hmmm...
SNSD's downturn started in 2014, after Jessicagate and Taeyeon's dating scandal, but they were still one of the most popular girl groups in Kpop regardless. So there was no clear passing of the torch moment that made it any easier for RV to break out, unless you count the end of SNSD's contract extensions and the beginning of their hiatus, by which point RV were already reaching their first peak on their own merit.
Twice are a fandom group at this point. They're not influencing the general public in Korea and whether or not they decide to follow the group's juniors. It's also not like they're hogging all of the company's resources. Just look at Stray Kids. All of these groups are handled by different divisions. If their other girl groups fail, that's on them (and JYPE.)
SNSD's downturn started in 2014, after Jessicagate and Taeyeon's dating scandal, but they were still one of the most popular girl groups in Kpop regardless. So there was no clear passing of the torch moment that made it any easier for RV to break out, unless you count the end of SNSD's contract extensions and the beginning of their hiatus, by which point RV were already reaching their first peak on their own merit.
Twice are a fandom group at this point. They're not influencing the general public in Korea and whether or not they decide to follow the group's juniors. It's also not like they're hogging all of the company's resources. Just look at Stray Kids. All of these groups are handled by different divisions. If their other girl groups fail, that's on them (and JYPE.)
I'm not saying that any group whether twice or SNSD deliberately passes the touch or deliberately blocks their juniors
it's more that they are all after the proverbial kpop pie and there is only so much to go around and kpop fans have limited resources - that is not to say that a fan can't be both a fan of the senior group and junior group but with limited resources there is only so many groups one can support
If twice were not around - would you say either or both Itzy and Nmixx would be more successful?
or let's take SM groups - RV is currently in their downturn and won't be promoting as much as prior (that's understandable) so if both RV and Aespa were gone one might argue that as the only "active" SM group h2h would be more successful (maybe??? no?)
If twice were not around - would you say either or both Itzy and Nmixx would be more successful?
or let's take SM groups - RV is currently in their downturn and won't be promoting as much as prior (that's understandable) so if both RV and Aespa were gone one might argue that as the only "active" SM group h2h would be more successful (maybe??? no?)
No to both. Itzy were at their most successful early on, when Twice hadn't completely fallen out of the public conciousness in Korea yet. Their Achilles' heel has been their own music. And as I said in a previous post, Nmixx never had any hype. Their debut was disastrous. They were snake bitten from the start. JYP probably shouldn't have even debuted another girl group at that point and just focused more on Itzy.
H2H are hard to gauge, as they really haven't done much of anything yet, but I don't think that's because of Aespa. Something tells me their target audiences won't even overlap all that much. Aespa could even lose steam by the time H2H start to become relevant... if they ever do.
SNSD's downturn started in 2014, after Jessicagate and Taeyeon's dating scandal
so maybe I was right in saying snsd was in their downturn?
SNSD's downturn started in June 2009.
They did have their biggest song ever earlier of that year, but failed to capitalize on opportunity to elevate to next level, then being defeated by a 2-month old girl group in the very next comeback. Since then their performance had been in decline until the 2017 hiatus.
You can see the trend in their songs with highest year end position each year:
2009: #1 (Melon)
2011: #43
2013: #13 (this time they did better than 2011 because the song was released in Jan)
2014: #54
2015: #44
Display MoreSNSD's downturn started in June 2009.
They did have their biggest song ever earlier of that year, but failed to capitalize on opportunity to elevate to next level, then being defeated by a 2-month old girl group in the very next comeback. Since then their performance had been in decline until the 2017 hiatus.
You can see the trend in their songs with highest year end position each year:
2009: #1 (Melon)
2011: #43
2013: #13 (this time they did better than 2011 because the song was released in Jan)
2014: #54
2015: #44
Even if you could map out a genuine decline year over year starting in 2009, you'd still be taking "downturn" way too literally. They were at the top of the mountain for most of their first seven years, although not as dominant as some make them out to be.
No to both. Itzy were at their most successful early on, when Twice hadn't completely fallen out of the public conciousness in Korea yet. Their Achilles' heel has been their own music. And as I said in a previous post, Nmixx never had any hype. Their debut was disastrous. They were snake bitten from the start. JYP probably shouldn't have even debuted another girl group at that point and just focused more on Itzy.
H2H are hard to gauge, as they really haven't done much of anything yet, but I don't think that's because of Aespa. Something tells me their target audiences won't even overlap all that much. Aespa could even lose steam by the time H2H start to become relevant... if they ever do.
interesting
Display MoreSNSD's downturn started in June 2009.
They did have their biggest song ever earlier of that year, but failed to capitalize on opportunity to elevate to next level, then being defeated by a 2-month old girl group in the very next comeback. Since then their performance had been in decline until the 2017 hiatus.
You can see the trend in their songs with highest year end position each year:
2009: #1 (Melon)
2011: #43
2013: #13 (this time they did better than 2011 because the song was released in Jan)
2014: #54
2015: #44
interesting
I'm not sure there was even a single year where they were at the top.
They had a great first half of 2009, but that's it. Since 2010 there were always 2-3 other ggs did better.
Anw, for the discussion, I don't think it's that matter. SM fandoms often have little overlap, they didn't have to worry about new group cannibalizing old group or vice-versa.
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