The Palestine movement is a minor movement that has an outsized voice: a small population that shout loudly. One of the biggest pieces of evidence for this is that companies that should be receptive to these types of call outs are not. I would say most countries and companies don't guide their courses on solely morality most of the time. They have other incentives. That there are governments and businesses and people haven't changed their actions can only mean that the number of people who care enough to change their behavior aren't enough. Not enough in America, in South Korea, or in most of the world. And where there are enough in number they are not enough in influence.
And the proof of this is that actions haven't changed.
In the US specifically, be prepared to see a lot less coverage of the conflict leading into the election, and then it will mostly be relegated to punditry talk once the election is decided. The fact that Democrat congressmen clapped during Netanyahu's speech at the Capitol last week is the biggest sign that the movement is cooked in terms of influence.
The Palestine movement is a minor movement that has an outsized voice: a small population that shout loudly. One of the biggest pieces of evidence for this is that companies that should be receptive to these types of call outs are not. I would say most countries and companies don't guide their courses on solely morality most of the time. They have other incentives. That there are governments and businesses and people haven't changed their actions can only mean that the number of people who care enough to change their behavior aren't enough. Not enough in America, in South Korea, or in most of the world. And where there are enough in number they are not enough in influence.
And the proof of this is that actions haven't changed.
In the US specifically, be prepared to see a lot less coverage of the conflict leading into the election, and then it will mostly be relegated to punditry talk once the election is decided. The fact that Democrat congressmen clapped during Netanyahu's speech at the Capitol last week is the biggest sign that the movement is cooked in terms of influence.
It's a major movement at the grassroots level but extremely powerless compared to the pro-Zionist side. Netanyahu commands a lot of respect and influence with the US government. And Zionism isn't just about Israel but Western powers wanting a chokehold over the Muslim world via Israel and a huge number of Evangelicals, who already hate non-Judeo-Christians, believe that if they support Israel they will go to heaven. The Zionists have the government, religious organizations, corporations, think thanks, media, nonprofits, NGOs heavily on their side. So these boycotts is the most such movement shut off by all sides can do in such situation, even if largely symbolic. It's the least people can do as they watch helpless a genocide happening right before their eyes.
It's a major movement at the grassroots level but extremely powerless compared to the pro-Zionist side. Netanyahu commands a lot of respect and influence with the US government. And Zionism isn't just about Israel but Western powers wanting a chokehold over the Muslim world via Israel and a huge number of Evangelicals, who already hate non-Judeo-Christians, believe that if they support Israel they will go to heaven. The Zionists have the government, religious organizations, corporations, think thanks, media, nonprofits, NGOs heavily on their side. So these boycotts is the most such movement shut off by all sides can do in such situation, even if largely symbolic. It's the least people can do as they watch helpless a genocide happening right before their eyes.
I do think it's a popular grassroots movements, and it's been able to exert influence locally e.g., Deerborn, Evergreen State College, etc. However, there don't seem to be enough numbers to influence state-level politics in their home country, let alone K-pop artists across the world whose income is primarily dervived on the other side of the world. Back in 2020 during the BLM protests, about 5% of the American population participated in those protests, and those could be argued to have affected no real change in many places or a backlash later on if there were any changes. The Palestine protest seems to be much smaller.
Even with the enshrined advantage that the Israeli state and corporations may have, there's not enough support to challenge it.
I do think it's a popular grassroots movements, and it's been able to exert influence locally e.g., Deerborn, Evergreen State College, etc. However, there don't seem to be enough numbers to influence state-level politics in their home country, let alone K-pop artists across the world whose income is primarily dervived on the other side of the world. Back in 2020 during the BLM protests, about 5% of the American population participated in those protests, and those could be argued to have affected no real change in many places or a backlash later on if there were any changes. The Palestine protest seems to be much smaller.
Even with the enshrined advantage that the Israeli state and corporations may have, there's not enough support to challenge it.
You are underestimating Zionist money backing and influence. Despite colleges being very anti-war and leftist, it's the donor class contributing hundreds of millions who has the final say. They skew to the pro-Zionist side. https://www.washingtonexaminer…sities-over-antisemitism/
Media coverage is also very pro-Israel. It relates again to money from advertisements and corporations that are almost completely supporting Israel.
It's money that runs the world. Millions were donated to the BLM movement from these same companies that in no way, shape or form have any reason to protest the genocide of Palestinians. Due to their ties with Israel, they will eventually benefit from the genocide as more land becomes available for doing business with Israel.
They'll run out of clothes to wear for sure. They should just play it safe and be like Jungkook.
Display MoreYou are underestimating Zionist money backing and influence. Despite colleges being very anti-war and leftist, it's the donor class contributing hundreds of millions who has the final say. They skew to the pro-Zionist side. https://www.washingtonexaminer…sities-over-antisemitism/
Media coverage is also very pro-Israel. It relates again to money from advertisements and corporations that are almost completely supporting Israel.
It's money that runs the world. Millions were donated to the BLM movement from these same companies that in no way, shape or form have any reason to protest the genocide of Palestinians. Due to their ties with Israel, they will eventually benefit from the genocide as more land becomes available for doing business with Israel.
I don't believe that I'm underestimating anything, and you've already reiterated a point that I've already made (that people that support the Palestinian cause don't have the numbers to impact change). Many college students and professors lean towards the left than the right, but that doesn't necessarily mean that students and professor have the Palestinian crisis as something they see worthy of boycotting or divesting from companies that they engage with. From the protests that we see, it's only a minority of students that feel the need to engage in such activities.
Your post is arguing that it's very difficult to confront Israel and force divestment because of the large hold that they have over companies and elites. However, that doesn't contradict my original argument that Palestinian protestors don't have the numbers to change the courses of companies on this topic. Your post just supports my argument, only adding that it's very hard to get companies and universities to divest, and it would be difficult because they don't have the numbers or the influence.
I don't believe that I'm underestimating anything, and you've already reiterated a point that I've already made (that people that support the Palestinian cause don't have the numbers to impact change). Many college students and professors lean towards the left than the right, but that doesn't necessarily mean that students and professor have the Palestinian crisis as something they see worthy of boycotting or divesting from companies that they engage with. From the protests that we see, it's only a minority of students that feel the need to engage in such activities.
Your post is arguing that it's very difficult to confront Israel and force divestment because of the large hold that they have over companies and elites. However, that doesn't contradict my original argument that Palestinian protestors don't have the numbers to change the courses of companies on this topic. Your post just supports my argument, only adding that it's very hard to get companies and universities to divest, and it would be difficult because they don't have the numbers or the influence.
Also to add on to this. More people are remaining neutral and NOT taking a stance on the conflict as they learn about this history etc. this whole conflict in many instances is not an Israeli problem it's a Palestinian problem. Fact the vast majority of Arab nations have forcefully expelled or killed the Palestinian populations within their own borders and countries like Egypt actively built massive border walls with Gaza to keep them out of Egypt. Also fact Israel has officially on multiple occasions attempted to turn over Gaza to Egypt but Egypt refuses to accept it. Also fact ever since the 70s Palestinians have been the number one source and reason of terrorism or destabilization in Egypt Jordan and Kuwait, which is the reason these nations removed them by force. Nations that haven't done so, bear the scars just look at Lebanon and Syria those had nothing to do with Israel. Another reason idola need to stay quiet about this stuff is, their influence and big idols like BTS have political power too. A few idiots on the streets screaming Palestine, if they get it wrong the worst that happens is they get embarrassed for not paying attention in history class and not studying people cultures,wars, society, religion etc.
Whereas if a idol gets it wrong like BTS not only do they get embarrassed, but they can get in serious trouble, sanctioned by governments, the target of assignations by terrorist organizations, sued by various institutions or even other serious legal actions including prison if their actions cause a large portion at home act out and cause civil unrest. These idols cannot afford to make the mistake of getting this wrong, so they have to ultra check everything a hundred times before any statement is ever made. Besides these kpop idols are entertainers not world leaders and politicians. Stop putting the weight of the world on their shoulders. Also significant amount of this kpop Palestine stuff is propaganda like someone carrying BTS pictures in a bombed out warzone 🤡 be forreal who in their right mind would be going to take BTS photo selfies in that situation? Nobody in reality your concerns are food shelter water and staying alive. Doing BTS pictures while bullets are wizIng by contradicts that heavily. People post stuff like that to illicit an emotional response from you. That's called dip deceptive imagery persuasion. If you are being manipulated, it means they are lying to you. If something is true you can state the facts without dolling everything up.
Always check everything you see before you react to it.
Lastly BTS are serving in the military. You cannot have a political opinion while serving the nation, unless clowns want their oppas in jail STFU and leave them alone. Hybe continue censoring this shit on weverse. This is kpop not the United nations!🤡
It's a major movement at the grassroots level but extremely powerless compared to the pro-Zionist side. Netanyahu commands a lot of respect and influence with the US government. And Zionism isn't just about Israel but Western powers wanting a chokehold over the Muslim world via Israel...
Israel's existence has nothing to do with wanting a so-called "chokehold over the Muslim world." Israel exists for its own sake, not to oppress Muslims (which make up approximately 20% of its own population.) Infighting and extremism, as well as some other, more influential western powers, have done far more damage to the Muslim world than little old Israel could ever hope to.
That looks like quite the "chokehold," doesn't it? /s
Israel's existence has nothing to do with wanting a so-called "chokehold over the Muslim world." Israel exists for its own sake, not to oppress Muslims (which make up approximately 20% of its own population.) Infighting and extremism, as well as some other, more influential western powers, have done far more damage to the Muslim world than little old Israel could ever hope to.
That looks like quite the "chokehold," doesn't it? /s
Israel provides military and intelligence logistics to the US and UK A lot more than any other ME nation. The “War on Terror” and Syrian civil wars, which devastated millions of lives for decades wouldn’t be possible without Israel. And it’s in Israel’s interest to keep he other nations there besides Saudi Arabia in turmoil, such as Palestine, Lebanon, Syria, Iraq, and allegedly Iran, and in return American military industry makes immense profits and takes over oil fields. It’s win/win for US and Israel but lose/lose for families and children who have been bombed by missiles and explosives
Israel provides military and intelligence logistics to the US and UK A lot more than any other ME nation. The “War on Terror” and Syrian civil wars, which devastated millions of lives for decades wouldn’t be possible without Israel. And it’s in Israel’s interest to keep he other nations there besides Saudi Arabia in turmoil, such as Palestine, Lebanon, Syria, Iraq, and allegedly Iran, and in return American military industry makes immense profits and takes over oil fields. It’s win/win for US and Israel but lose/lose for families and children who have been bombed by missiles and explosives
Israel is not the reason for the turmoil in the region lol. The turmoil comes from the Saudi Arabia/Iran conflict and on a different level from the conflict between modern capitalism vs fundamentalist islam both in population and regimes. The US plays a part too but one of the biggest issues of the region is that everything is just blamed on the evil West, which means nobody holds their actual governments and people accountable. Things are never gonna change if you only ever blame an outside enemy without looking at the rot within (and that goes for every country in the world). Iran doesn't want Israel there cause it's a US ally, true. Why do you think they back Hamas and Hamas attacked Israel during talks with Saudi Arabia. Egypt and Lebanon may claim to support Palestine but they have been extremely careful not to take in any Palestinians. Unfortunately, due to a variety of circumstances, a big part of the population is simply too radicalised to be able to coexist peacefully with any government. Pretty much every country that took them in had massive issues with this.
of course it's easier to say Israel are the bad guys and if they just ceased to exist, the region would be happy rainbowland but come on, nobody actually believes that. Give the region to Hamas, all you get is increased terror attacks in the surrounding countries why else do you think are Egypt, Lebanon and Jordan all playing both sides in this.
Israel provides military and intelligence logistics to the US and UK A lot more than any other ME nation. The “War on Terror” and Syrian civil wars, which devastated millions of lives for decades wouldn’t be possible without Israel. And it’s in Israel’s interest to keep he other nations there besides Saudi Arabia in turmoil, such as Palestine, Lebanon, Syria, Iraq, and allegedly Iran, and in return American military industry makes immense profits and takes over oil fields. It’s win/win for US and Israel but lose/lose for families and children who have been bombed by missiles and explosives
Israel was not needed to wage those wars in the Middle East. That's preposterous. The US has the military logistics & sealift capability to wage war wherever it wants, not to mention it also has other cooperative allies in the region and not just Israel.
The surrounding countries aren't kept in turmoil by Israel, they do that to themselves. Most of them have had peace treaties with Israel for decades. They remember what happened the last time they got on Israel's bad side (except for Lebanon, apparently.) You could make a worthwhile argument that it is in Israel's best interests that those countries remain weak, but they do not actually have Israel to blame for that reality. Also, the US would have a hand in the Middle East's oil reserves whether Israel was there or not. We go directly to the source, not through Israel. They aren't some sort of middle-man. Most of those countries would refuse to work out a deal with Israel even if we tried to arrange it.
Israel is not the reason for the turmoil in the region lol. The turmoil comes from the Saudi Arabia/Iran conflict and on a different level from the conflict between modern capitalism vs fundamentalist islam both in population and regimes. The US plays a part too but one of the biggest issues of the region is that everything is just blamed on the evil West, which means nobody holds their actual governments and people accountable. Things are never gonna change if you only ever blame an outside enemy without looking at the rot within (and that goes for every country in the world). Iran doesn't want Israel there cause it's a US ally, true. Why do you think they back Hamas and Hamas attacked Israel during talks with Saudi Arabia. Egypt and Lebanon may claim to support Palestine but they have been extremely careful not to take in any Palestinians. Unfortunately, due to a variety of circumstances, a big part of the population is simply too radicalised to be able to coexist peacefully with any government. Pretty much every country that took them in had massive issues with this.
of course it's easier to say Israel are the bad guys and if they just ceased to exist, the region would be happy rainbowland but come on, nobody actually believes that. Give the region to Hamas, all you get is increased terror attacks in the surrounding countries why else do you think are Egypt, Lebanon and Jordan all playing both sides in this.
The fact you have to explain this tells you what's wrong with the free Palestine crowd. They don't have any intelligence and think some massive conspiracy theory that Israel is the reason Arabs suffers. I guess the generations of conflicts due to ideological radicalized and highly controversial religious beliefs by various factions within the region of the same ethnic groups has NOTHING to do with it🤡 all of this in fighting and claims of wiping everyone out on the planet that doesn't agree with their ideology is America and Israel fault 🤡🤡.
Like c'mon this is like sticking a stick into the wheel of your own bike and when you crash, you blame the dog for you sabotaging yourself 🤡 bruh these people.
This is why these kpop idols need to ignore these boycotts. This silly shit can legitimately get them killed.
Israel was not needed to wage those wars in the Middle East. That's preposterous. The US has the military logistics & sealift capability to wage war wherever it wants, not to mention it also has other cooperative allies in the region and not just Israel.
The surrounding countries aren't kept in turmoil by Israel, they do that to themselves. Most of them have had peace treaties with Israel for decades. They remember what happened the last time they got on Israel's bad side (except for Lebanon, apparently.) You could make a worthwhile argument that it is in Israel's best interests that those countries remain weak, but they do not actually have Israel to blame for that reality. Also, the US would have a hand in the Middle East's oil reserves whether Israel was there or not. We go directly to the source, not through Israel. They aren't some sort of middle-man. Most of those countries would refuse to work out a deal with Israel even if we tried to arrange it.
You'd have to be quite naive or dishonest to believe that Zionists in the US government and Israel don't push for destabilizing measures in the Middle East for decades. It's well known that the "Project for the New American Century" which guided American war policy in the ME for decades was formulated by prominent Zionists and Zionist organizations such as the Jewish Institute for National Security of America. And US Zionist officials are open about bombing in the Middle East, from Michael Chertoff, John Bolton, and the deceased John McCain singing "bomb bomb Iran" in public. But the reality is there aren't any good guys. Nothing of consequence has happened to Iran because like Saudi Arabia and the Israeli government, their main objective is to hold unto power, not defeat their enemy. And that's by portraying themselves as strong defenders of their nation or religion to their public, but allowing military groups to cause enough carnage to be a reason for them to stay in power, all in the name of security. Netanyahu had a long career just because of it and also why the Ayatollahs are still in power despite the majority of Iranians wanting to modernize. That's the status quo for a long time, but this time Netanyahu wants the Palestinians off Gaza and chose genocide as the most effective way. And he's been hinting a lot of the Hamas attack being a "Pearl Harbor" (hint: they knew it would happen but let it happen). The Mossad is one of the best intelligence agencies in the world and them knowing nothing about the Hamas planned attacking is incredulous. And because of that both Israeli and Palestinian people have to pay with their lives, just because these men want power.
You'd have to be quite naive or dishonest to believe that Zionists in the US government and Israel don't push for destabilizing measures in the Middle East for decades. It's well known that the "Project for the New American Century" which guided American war policy in the ME for decades was formulated by prominent Zionists and Zionist organizations such as the Jewish Institute for National Security of America. And US Zionist officials are open about bombing in the Middle East, from Michael Chertoff, John Bolton, and the deceased John McCain singing "bomb bomb Iran" in public. But the reality is there aren't any good guys. Nothing of consequence has happened to Iran because like Saudi Arabia and the Israeli government, their main objective is to hold unto power, not defeat their enemy. And that's by portraying themselves as strong defenders of their nation or religion to their public, but allowing military groups to cause enough carnage to be a reason for them to stay in power, all in the name of security. Netanyahu had a long career just because of it and also why the Ayatollahs are still in power despite the majority of Iranians wanting to modernize. That's the status quo for a long time, but this time Netanyahu wants the Palestinians off Gaza and chose genocide as the most effective way. And he's been hinting a lot of the Hamas attack being a "Pearl Harbor" (hint: they knew it would happen but let it happen). The Mossad is one of the best intelligence agencies in the world and them knowing nothing about the Hamas planned attacking is incredulous. And because of that both Israeli and Palestinian people have to pay with their lives, just because these men want power.
I see you're big into groundless conspiracy theories. Next you'll tell me the Illuminati is involved somehow.
Good old reddit tier "conspiracy theory" argument. It's there right here, a well-known, often cited document that outlined the "War on Terror" aka, war on Arab countries that aren't Saudi Arabia (a US & Israel ally).
https://resistir.info/livros/rebuilding_americas_defenses.pdf
It's no conspiracy that those who supported PNAC and the arguments from that document benefited hugely. And those include prominent Zionists and investors in military industries (remember Cheney?). Imagine spending trillions to fight Al-Qaeda and the Taliban but they are still alive, because keeping them alive means more profits. But the children in Gaza, nobody is profiting from their genocide, so not even "woke" corporations are going to pretend that they care, and instead are giving free burgers to Israeli soldiers.
Is this graph so useful? Military spending in 2024 dollars has gone up each year, but what about other areas of US budgetary spending? Last I checked, as a percentage of GDP, military spending has gone down and defense spending today is 50% less than what is was about 15 years ago.
I agree that one of the reasons that the US has allied itself with Israel and Saudi Arabia is for strategic positioning in the Middle East and to counter Iranian influence. However, I would question the idea that the US started the war on terror to have a war with Arab countries. One of the reasons being that the US spent the most time in Afghanistan, which is not Arabic last I checked? Could you explain your reasoning a bit for this point? I tried to search in the PDF, but Arab and Afghanistan turned up about four results in your link.
Display MoreGood old reddit tier "conspiracy theory" argument. It's there right here, a well-known, often cited document that outlined the "War on Terror" aka, war on Arab countries that aren't Saudi Arabia (a US & Israel ally).
https://resistir.info/livros/r…ing_americas_defenses.pdf
It's no conspiracy that those who supported PNAC and the arguments from that document benefited hugely. And those include prominent Zionists and investors in military industries (remember Cheney?). Imagine spending trillions to fight Al-Qaeda and the Taliban but they are still alive, because keeping them alive means more profits. But the children in Gaza, nobody is profiting from their genocide, so not even "woke" corporations are going to pretend that they care, and instead are giving free burgers to Israeli soldiers.
Hey, you got a response befitting of your conspiracy peddling. When you want to start dealing in established facts, I might take what you have to say more seriously.
Everyone knows the US has a massive military industrial complex. You're not telling us anything that isn't well established. Yes, we have politicians and other special interest groups who make money off of wars. That doesn't mean they're all Zionists or doing it for any reason other than to line their own pockets. Personal greed is their driving motivation, not some nebulous anti-Arab agenda ultimately meant to benefit Israel.
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