Why do 4th gen BGs perform poorly domestically?

At first, I wrote it off as a 4th gen thing, like “oh, let’s give it some time for them to do better”, as it was really only Itzy doing well initially with some success for IDLE. But now? With Aespa, IVE, Stayc, and LSRFM finding chart success, IDLE blowing up with Tomboy—4th gen BGs are pitifully behind the GGs. Yes, BGs don’t have the best track run with charts in comparison to GGs (at least in 3rd gen, 2nd gen they were much more equal), but besides maybe TBZ (?), every other 4th gen BG has so little domestic public relevance it’s sad. Why is this? Is it an overall decrease in idol relevancy in SK? Or is it simply because these BGs don’t make digestible enough music for the public to do well?

Also, I’m aware that domestic relevance isn’t everything—international success will give way for a group to prosper. However, I’m a little shocked just how bad boy groups in this gen are doing. At least in 3rd gen, we had groups (besides BTS) like Exo, Ikon, Winner, Wanna One, even NCT and Seventeen find some domestic digital success.

Not Korean, and I don't care about Korea. But it's possible that bgs are now held to a higher standard there because of BTS. Just my 2 cents.

korean gp not vibing

iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiireeeeeeeeeeleeeeeeeevaaaaaaannnnnnnnnt!!!!!!

Boy groups are out permanently!

You said it too that the last time bgs ang ggs were any close to equal was in the 2nd gen.

First, what everyone needs to realise is that gg=gp support and bg=dedicated fandom is a GLOBAL trend. To put it as concisely as possible, men tend to be less likely to associate with acts whose fanbase has many teenage girls due to toxic masculinity, and also slow down the act in question reaching men with more progressive thinking. There is a tipping point though: when a group has a fanbase big enough to begin to feel "mainstream", not just men but all sorts of people who previously wouldn't have supported a bg will now feel it's acceptable for them to enjoy that bg.

In the 2nd gen, it became clear as day that idol business can be very profitable, and that it's never impossible for a group to get lucky and make it big. So companies began debuting more and more groups in the 3rd gen, making the market increasingly more saturated. Obviously, this affected boy groups worse. Previously, in the 2nd gen, idols' promotion relied heavily on traditional media such as domestic tv and radio etc. These appearances were also a HUGE support for them to keep themselves gp relevant. But these are all places where popularity is prioritised, and therefore much less available to an increasingly higher percentage of all boy groups. In addition, it was also in the 3rd gen that social media, including international social media began REALLY taking off. It opened doors for (international) promotion but also made it less and less possible to "force" a group on the GP.

So what did this lead to?

Companies began focusing less on reaching the Korean GP at all; it became too much effort for less profit than what could be achieved if the company simply focused on the fandom. This manifested itself both in promotion and creative direction: promotion became much more fandom-focused, and audiovisual concepts not created with Korean GP appeal in mind also began popping up more.

So, this is was the domestic kpop scene that all 4th gen bgs debuted into. Very saturated and difficult to meaningfully grow in for the majority of groups.

But let's not forget that kpop as a whole went through a decline in domestic relevance in the past years. If you recall, a few years ago kpop groups almost completely disappeared from Korean charts, and kpop stans were anticipating the end of kpop in Korea. In the end, it made a quick recovery, thanks to some viral girl group hits, but that's not something bgs (or smaller ggs for that matter) benefited from a lot.

And last but definitely not the least: Korean streaming platforms went through numerous chart reforms since the domestic heyday of boy groups.

TL;DR: GP has always been harder to win over for boy groups, in the 3rd gen most companies gave up on it for various reasons, and boy groups en bloc never recovered. Plus chart reforms.

popular bg domestically since 1st gen to present gen can only be counted by fingers let's be honest

Quote from Dried Orange & Olive Lamb (722)

You said it too that the last time bgs ang ggs were any close to equal was in the 2nd gen.

First, what everyone needs to realise is that gg=gp support and bg=dedicated fandom is a GLOBAL trend. To put it as concisely as possible, men tend to be less likely to associate with acts whose fanbase has many teenage girls due to toxic masculinity, and also slow down the act in question reaching men with more progressive thinking. There is a tipping point though: when a group has a fanbase big enough to begin to feel "mainstream", not just men but all sorts of people who previously wouldn't have supported a bg will now feel it's acceptable for them to enjoy that bg.

In the 2nd gen, it became clear as day that idol business can be very profitable, and that it's never impossible for a group to get lucky and make it big. So companies began debuting more and more groups in the 3rd gen, making the market increasingly more saturated. Obviously, this affected boy groups worse. Previously, in the 2nd gen, idols' promotion relied heavily on traditional media such as domestic tv and radio etc. These appearances were also a HUGE support for them to keep themselves gp relevant. But these are all places where popularity is prioritised, and therefore much less available to an increasingly higher percentage of all boy groups. In addition, it was also in the 3rd gen that social media, including international social media began REALLY taking off. It opened doors for (international) promotion but also made it less and less possible to "force" a group on the GP.

So what did this lead to?

Companies began focusing less on reaching the Korean GP at all; it became too much effort for less profit than what could be achieved if the company simply focused on the fandom. This manifested itself both in promotion and creative direction: promotion became much more fandom-focused, and audiovisual concepts not created with Korean GP appeal in mind also began popping up more.

So, this is was the domestic kpop scene that all 4th gen bgs debuted into. Very saturated and difficult to meaningfully grow in for the majority of groups.

But let's not forget that kpop as a whole went through a decline in domestic relevance in the past years. If you recall, a few years ago kpop groups almost completely disappeared from Korean charts, and kpop stans were anticipating the end of kpop in Korea. In the end, it made a quick recovery, thanks to some viral girl group hits, but that's not something bgs (or smaller ggs for that matter) benefited from a lot.

And last but definitely not the least: Korean streaming platforms went through numerous chart reforms since the domestic heyday of boy groups.

TL;DR: GP has always been harder to win over for boy groups, in the 3rd gen most companies gave up on it for various reasons, and boy groups en bloc never recovered. Plus chart reforms.

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Wrong. Globally, boy groups are more listened by people than girl groups which is why you see so many boybands or male bands in general, but in SK girl groups are the trend.

Quote from Cured Saffron & Shallot Beef (362)

Wrong. Globally, boy groups are more listened by people than girl groups which is why you see so many boybands or male bands in general, but in SK girl groups are the trend.

That's not what I said.

I said that boy groups relying on a dedicated fandom vs girl groups relying on casuals is a global trend. Nothing about how their numbers actually compare to each other. It's about the fandom structure, not the popularity.