Posts by Djibson

Quote from mashimaroluff0

That’s a possibility but I don’t think it’s a smart move. But considering hybe behavior so far they may be really that dumb.

First the person that can sue Eunsoo on spreading rumor is Garam. And even if Hybe sue on her behalf, at most it would be a libel case. However that happened over 4 years ago - how are they going to prove Eunsoo was the one who spread the rumors? And most importantly what financial damage did a 13 year old Garam incurred then? That’s a losing case and just dig a bigger hole in public opinion for hybe. Idk that smart at all.

When I say Hybe it's Hybe/Garam. Of course if they sue Eunseo for defamation it will be in the name of garam. However, it's not just the loss of money that justifies defamation. But more because it tarnishes someone's image and would have led to Garam being harassed in a chat group. And if it's true I think it won't be difficult to prove with the testimonies of the people involved and the focus group. Nothing disappears on the internet.

Quote from mashimaroluff0

Hybe can only sue the rumors spreader for libel which won’t necessarily involve the “molka”. They will win if they can prove they were financially affected, there is no need to verify the truth because it’s not necessarily for libel lawsuit over there. They can’t sue the “victim” since she didn’t spread the “rumor”. That’s the first round of lawsuit, which is mostly civil.

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The second round of lawsuit is when the Eunsoo lawyer had filed a criminal lawsuit. I’m confused on who they filed it against, the rumors spreader or HYBE/ Garam. My guess is on Hybe as the 2nd degree perpetrator. Because they can use Hybe ambiguous statement of calling Garam as “victim” for creating enough confusion to cause Eunsoo to be cyber-bullied, which they have proof, and caused her to attempt suicide. This is the lawsuit where finding who at fault in 2018 matter - and the molka and details will need to be presented in court.

At this point, if the lawsuit persist, the only thing the court can prove is whether HYBE is criminally liable to have cause Eunsoo to commit suicide due to their statement. I don’t think this is easy to win though because it’s very nuances and it’s hard to make Hybe liable for 3rd party (fans) doing.

The goal for Eunsoo is to get Hybe to take back their statement that Garam was a victim. Or at least acknowledgment that she had bullied Eunsoo. I think the lawyer went public because it’s the easier route to get Eunsoo’s goal than the court, which can be long and hard to prove. Whereas Eunsoo parents main goal is to get this public acknowledgement from Hybe as soon as possible probably to calm down their daughter who is too emotionally unstable at the moment.

I think if I was Hybe I could see that as an opening as well. This is their leverage over Eunsoo team. It’s hard for them to win PLUS Eunsoo probably can’t handle the emotional turmoil of drawn out battle.

Garam can be both a bully and got bullied. Toward Eunsoo she could have bullied her. And in turn she got bully back for something else. That’s a possible scenario.

Unfortunately even if Garam was proven to be bullied at some point it does not erase the fact (if proven) she had bullied the Eunsoo. Two wrongs don’t make a right, unfortunately.

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Yes it's true except that they said there was physical abuse. What Hybe has denied. according to hybe's statement there were only verbal responses. And at the end of their statement they apologized for what garam said. But the problem goes further because according to hybe's statement, the "victim" would have spread "false rumors about garam" in his new school when the problem had already been judged. And this led to online harassment against garam even by students from the "victim's" new school in a chat group.
If that's true I think Hybe might sue the "victim"

Quote from Noemi

I don't think they have intention to sue Eunseo's team because they would have stated that in their statement if they did. It's likely that they took the time this weekend to reach an agreement with the law firm/Eunseo. However, from the law firm's statement, they are only looking for a apology and HYBE withdrawing their statement that Garam is a victim. I don't know if HYBE can do that or persuade them to budge since based on the law firm statement, everything happened because Eunseo tried to commit suicide and the intention of the parents is to stop it from happening again, which is why they didn't file a civil complaint but a criminal one.

I don't think Hybe is going to apologize or retract his first statement. Since they did not mention the name of Garam's "victim" in their first press release. And since Hybe's first statement was aimed at people spreading "rumors" about Garam and not the victim. I think that's why he's asking for an apology instead of complaining to hybe. Since legally Hybe never said it was the "victim" who was starting the "rumors" on the internet.

Quote from ZombiePopsicle

This could happen, but I don't believe public opinion on Garam would change unless there is some proof of her innocence or the law firm itself releases a statement that clears both eunsoo of accusations and also states that garam wasn't completely gulity either. Even then though, I think Garam's image is permanently scarred or will at least be damaged for a long time no matter what the results are.

Yes it is. Especially towards the Korean public.

Quote from Noemi

That was not the law firm though. Law firm was after. They talked about the third party that started the rumors.

Yes that's what I said they threatened to sue the people who published the rumors. And They also said that garam was the victim. So if they go all the way, this photo story is bound to come out at some point to prove that Garam was a victim I think.

Quote from MissBehave

It's actually possible that both sides are telling a version of the events that they believe to be true. Suppose it was a selfie with the friend visible in the background. Maybe Eunseo didn't realize what was in the photo before she shared it and Garam thinks she did it intentionally and is lying. Garam retaliated based on her belief. Eunseo believes she was attacked for an innocent mistake. The school punished Garam cuz they had proof of her bad actions but couldn't prove that Eunseo revealed the girl's underwear on purpose, so she was let off. That would even line up with Hybe saying that Eunseo acknowledged taking and sharing the photo. ("Yeah, it was my pic but I didn't notice friend B was visible in the background if you zoomed in. I should've been more careful. )

Ofc, it is also possible that Eunseo did lie about not noticing or she even did it completely intentionally. That would be where you have to decide for yourself if you will hold her innocent unless proven guilty or if you think you have enough context to form an opinion on it.

That's why I think it's going to end with an amicable agreement.
I really think that if the two parties meet and discuss they will find an amicable agreement. Of course if there has never been any physical abuse.

Quote from Noemi

Just a quick question, is anyone else seeing random posts in French or is it just me? It's the weirdest thing.

It's me I think. I am a basic French speaker. And I think google machine translation got triggered on my phone. 😁🙏

Quote from Noemi

I don't think they said they will sue in their recent statement or the one right before it. They just explained the sequence of events and an acknowledgment and explanation of the punishment Garam received.

I don't know but in their first statement before the debut of lesserafim they said it.

Quote from Pinky_Peachy

Knetizens already disproved this - your record follows you wherever you go, even if the investigation was only opened before you transferred so this would not be possible. The conclusion of the situation would follow your record regardless if you transferred before it ended or not.

Yes, but when you leave school before the victim files a complaint with the commission, I don't think the school will be able to judge you since you are no longer part of the school. Or I can be wrong 🤷🏿
In fact according to hybe's statement she left after denouncing garam and even before the commission took a removal order against garam.
In any case what is certain is that to clarify all this they will have to go to court.

Quote from Noemi

Le document ne révélera rien que HYBE n'ait déjà révélé. Les noms peuvent être facilement expurgés. Ils peuvent également demander à un membre du comité de faire la déclaration sans révéler aucun nom. Si quelqu'un est innocent et qu'il existe une preuve d'innocence, pourquoi ne pas l'utiliser ? Il existe des moyens de le faire sans impliquer plus de mineurs. Dans l'état actuel des choses, Eunseo est critiqué pour avoir partagé la photo et Garam est critiqué comme un tyran.

Of course they will use it if they have it. But it'll be in court I think since Hybe said they're going to sue it.

Quote from MissBehave

Il n'aurait pas besoin d'être explicite. Tout le monde pouvait être en silhouette ou mosaïqué. Voir s'il s'agissait d'une photo complète de l'ami ou d'un selfie avec l'ami visible en arrière-plan fournirait un contexte à l'allégation. Ils pourraient également décrire l'image elle-même, c'est-à-dire l'image de l'ami B par derrière en culotte enlevant la chemise. Ou Eunseo au premier plan avec l'ami B en arrière-plan en soutien-gorge et culotte ou jupe relevée avec culotte visible ou en débardeur et culotte à mi-change.... quoi qu'il arrive. Le contexte de l'image est très important dans ce ca

Yes it's true they could do that.
But must have the agreement of the girl before.

Quote from Fluffers

Cyberbullying now. That first statement was in reference to specifically her first year in Middle School.

I still don't see where the contradiction is?🤷🏿

Quote from Noemi

I still don't get why HYBE didn't just provide proof of their statement by publishing the portion of committee record with redacted names that states this. They already detailed the incident so it's not like they will be leaking any new information if they publish the redacted record. Instead, they decided to put Garam's activities on halt.

Unless, the details of the actual story are not really in their favor and they are trying to buy time or hoping to reach settlement with the law form while the public chews on this little piece of information.

Well, that involves other minors. If everything is revealed to the public it will impact their lives. And he could be the victim of cyberbullying from people who support one side or the other. In addition the photo of the person could be humiliating for her

Quote from staycOrbit

HYBE's claim is a bit absurd. No way the school would punish only Garam that was allegedly defending someone and not the girl who took the pictures, AND her family would just accept that.

Everyone including her family would need to be an idiot for this to happen this way. Unlikely.

Well the school punishes only according to the complaints they receive from the students. "the victim" filed with the commission. While the "victim of the photo" it is not known if she complain

. but the one who accuses garam would have changed schools before the commission decided on the removal measure and it is apparently because of "the victim of the photo" that she would have changed schools before returning to a nearby school from that of garam despite the distance measure. 🤷🏿

Quote from Fluffers

... they've already lied.

Their first official statement was a flagrant lie

No be careful there is nothing to prove they lied in their first statement. They denied the accusations that were made against Garam (that she was kicked out of starship, that she was violent at school, that she smoked, that she drank, that she hit someone 'one with a flower pot) and everything I just quoted in parentheses has not been proven to be true. The only thing Hybe admitted was that she said things she shouldn't have said when she was, and they apologized for that in their final statements.
It's true a company can lie but the law firm can also lie it goes both ways. (Already they haven't told the whole story in their statement). Anyway if there is a third person he will testify anyway and the photo will have to be shown during the trial. Let's just wait and see but I think it will end with an agreement from both parties especially if both parties are guilty.

Quote from Fluffers

Like I feel like people forget that before any document leaks.

Before any contact with a law firm

this is what Hybe/SoMu said with their WHOLE chest

“The recent allegations were cunningly edited to maliciously slander Kim Garam over the events that occurred during the time when she was making friends in the early stages of middle school. Contrary to the claims, it was confirmed through a third-party statement that Kim Garam was a victim of school bullying, including malicious rumors and cyberbullying, when she was in middle school.“

Which completely contradicts their latest statements, where they don't even suggest she herself has ever been bullied in school.

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No, in their last press release they made it clear that she was a victim of cyberbullying. Read the whole document carefully. I don't see where the contradiction is.

Quote from Fluffers

there has been no official acknowledgement of the picture by any other official party besides Hybe.

Netizens speculating on the potential nature of a picture is not acknowledgement.

In the same way that they didn't show the whole document of the commission against violence too. We don't know everything that was said in the document as well. All we have is a fragment of a document. And the law firm did not deny. If it's not true he could just make a short statement indicating that the accusations against their client are false in time to make another fuller statement later like hybe did when the firm released their communications but they just be silent.
Honestly this story is getting complicated because I figure hybe wouldn't be saying that if they didn't have the photos that prove it and the third party testimonials and also the testimony of the person who was photographed while they can just apologize since that's the only thing asked of them. And also I feel like the law firm doesn't want to go to trial because they say the only thing they want is an apology while Hybe wants to go all the way and sue the involved persons. I don't know about you, but for me they seem too confident that's why I tell myself that they have proof but if he doesn't publish this photo it's to protect the victim which was photographed and it makes perfect sense.

Quote from MIRACOLE

All I have to say on this and most bullying scandals is:

How are people calling for groups not to debut artists before 18 claiming "They're too young, protect the babies!" but in the same breath are denigrating and condemning artists and wanting an entire career destroyed over something someone may or may not have done when they were 12, 13, 14. It's ridiculous and hypocritical. Unfortunately in cases like this the whole truth is rarely what actually comes out but most people rarely care about the truth anyway.

And calling for background checks into an artists elementary school and middle school years is utterly foolish. Nothing ever "comes out" until these people debut and there is often a reason for that. Obviously not all artists are innocent but having taught for nearly 20 years these issues are often a lot more nuanced then they're allowed to be once media and the public start weighing in.

It's very unfortunate how idols are treated.

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I'm just telling myself the same thing. When we are 12/13 years old we do so many stupid things. And there are always fights between people at school. I tell myself that it's still crazy that someone's whole life is destroyed for some nonsense she did at school at 12/13 years old, especially if there is no physical violence committed and when we don't even know the root of the problem. People are too strong to say that agencies should protect underage artists because they are very young and not expose them too much by sexualizing them but as soon as there is a rumor about the past of these minors they are the first to attack it without knowing the root of the problem or the context. I mean a lot of people have had fights in school, gotten into fights or made offensive remarks against other students during their teenage years. But that's not why their whole life has to be compromised.

I don't think they would wait until Monday to deny hybe's statements if their clients hadn't done anything she's accused of in hybe's statement. (In addition to what the French media say about Korea, there most work up to 12 hours of overtime on weekends)
And I don't recall the law firm saying that Garam physically attacked their client. They said she was the stalker but did not specify (Afterwards I could be wrong I read the article two days ago, I can forget details). And Hybe acknowledged Garam's wrongdoing and apologized at the end of their letter (They acknowledged that Garam made offensive remarks and apologized for it) it seems to me but denies the fact that there is had a physical attack. So even if the law firm publishes garam's messages or documents, it's useless because Hybe has already recognized that Garam said things she shouldn't have said. So in the end what we expect above all from the law firm is to tell the whole story in turn according to their version and to say or not if there has been violence and if their client is innocent of this whether hybe accuses him or not. In addition, why the firm is attacking hybe is mainly due to the fact that their client has been harassed online by anonymous people and that according to them it is because of hybe's statement. Except I don't think Hybe is going to delete their first statement and apologize because they're going to say they never mentioned their client as the author of these rumors. Hybe was mostly aimed at people who were spreading these rumors on the internet that Garam was violent, smoked and drank at their school, and was fired from another agency for bad behavior.
Anyway, since this case involves a lot of minors, I just think it will end with an agreement between the two parties if each party has harmed the other and there has been no violence.

Quote from Serala

Hybe a publié sa déclaration plus de 10 heures plus tard après sa première déclaration au cabinet d'avocats (deux heures plus tard et seulement "Garam est la victime"), mais vous ne semblez pas douter d'eux pour avoir mis si longtemps à publier leur version .

Le cabinet d'avocats doit au moins s'assurer que tout est juridiquement correct, sinon il perdra des clients s'il publie des informations de manière non professionnelle. Aussi, Hybe ne l'a-t-il pas sorti le vendredi plutôt dans la journée ? Le cabinet d'avocats ne fera probablement pas d'heures supplémentaires et le week-end pour publier une déclaration qu'il pourra publier lundi.

Attendez jusqu'à lundi et nous pourrons voir comment la situation ira plus loin

Quote from Serala

Hybe a publié sa déclaration plus de 10 heures plus tard après sa première déclaration au cabinet d'avocats (deux heures plus tard et seulement "Garam est la victime"), mais vous ne semblez pas douter d'eux pour avoir mis si longtemps à publier leur version .

Le cabinet d'avocats doit au moins s'assurer que tout est juridiquement correct, sinon il perdra des clients s'il publie des informations de manière non professionnelle. Aussi, Hybe ne l'a-t-il pas sorti le vendredi plutôt dans la journée ? Le cabinet d'avocats ne fera probablement pas d'heures supplémentaires et le week-end pour publier une déclaration qu'il pourra publier lundi.

Attendez jusqu'à lundi et nous pourrons voir comment la situation ira plus loin