Posts by Zenning

    I dunno.

    They experiment a lot, with their group structures, their music styles, their branding - don't get me wrong, it's what I like about the SM people's approach, that they're not afraid to try out the untreaded 'roads less traveled by' (Frost) but they do experiment with stuff a LOT.

    And that has additional risks, because not every experiment and project will end up having the success they strived for. And that means additional costs. Their experimentation and diversification in companies means SM's overhead and investment costs will always be higher than for most other companies.

    They were lucky in 2nd gen era that their experimentations hits bullseye multiple times, so their ROI was high too and their risk taking paid off.

    But 3rd gen era showed how it is when their experiments and risk taking is less successful, or takes more years to gather speed.

    But they have new management since last year, so we'll see if that brings any lasting change for 4th gen era for SM.

    Tbh, I'm not a big fan of most of the mainstream pop music that has come out in the US the past few years, most of it left me lukewarm.

    Also a lot of the current American pop styles and trends are just not my taste, I often find it too cheap (even in production value), too exaggerated or too uncreative.

    So I'm not that much for K-pop imitating the current American pop and hiphop scene too much.

    What fascinated and drew me towards K-pop was that it was pop music, but a totally different scene from the American pop scene, and very much its own thing. There's a lot of things that K-pop even does better than American pop music, so hopefully those won't get lost in the hunt for international success.

    Not bad, it's at 13M views already.

    Also this

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    It'll be interesting to see if they can keep momentum the next few days.

    Have mercy with a pitifully small, midsize company-seo, they only have enough money to promote their new group, and for that the employees have to sell t-shirts and other merchandise on the streets :pepe-sad:

    ... I should really bookmark threads like these, to revisit when RV have their comeback :pepe-smug:

    I'm waiting for Seungri case to be solved first to mention him again kkkk

    Oow?? It's still not resolved? I know there was a megathread that Lizvip made on the old forum about it - but it was too long and too many discussions in it to keep track :cryingk:

    I can see why OP chose those 4 songs, they're among the more non-standard, unconvential/controversial class of K-pop songs.

    But I actually like all 4 :-) I guess my taste includes unconventional songs, sometimes musical critics and K-pop fans agree (eg I Got A Boy and Red Light), and sometimes they don't.

    But of the four, I still like IGAB the most.

    I Got A Boy won the first Youtube Awards for Video of the Year in 2013, above all Western artists incl Lady Gaga, Justin Bieber, Miley Cyrus, Lovato, Selena Gomez.

    Billboard named the song #21 on their list of 100 Greatest Girl Group Songs of All Time,[36] and later named the song as one of the 100 songs that defined the 2010s.[4][37] and also as their fifth best K-Pop song of the 2010s.[38]

    Time named "I Got a Boy" the 5th best song on their Top 10 Songs of the Year list, calling it a "pop phenomenon" that rivals the likes of One Direction and Katy Perry.[8]

    So... :siptear:

    Yes, but thinking like this is "silly" bc if we start then we could say this about every other group who produces, songwriter which is not the point here. When talking about stage presence I can say that 3/4 are great.

    They were 5 members, not 4, but 5: poor Seungri... :pepe-sad:

    Yeah, the reason why I mentioned BB was not as much their stage presence, but more as an example how 1 person due to their unique or exceptional talents in a certain area can have fans credit the entire group for that particular talent, as if all members possess that particular talent on that level: for 2NE1 CL's stage presence, for BB GD's exceptional multi-talent.

    Agreed about 2ne1.

    About BB I do know GD talent is insane, but about stage presence I can say all of them are at least good to great with Daesung being good and honestly T.O.P, Taeyang and GD being great. And they are all talented, the only thing that GD surpasses them is the write/produce stuff.

    It's the writing/producing/composing that distinguishes BB from other groups, what GD added and contributed to the group was what made the group special and lifted it to its exceptional heights.

    Like YG has mentioned and admitted various times, GD really was his golden goose: GD's talents were what boosted BB to the major league.

    Without it, without GD's talent and contribution, while still not bad, other groups outdid BB in dance and vocal power.

    It's an interesting question, actually, how well would BB have done without GD right from the start? Would it have been more like iKon, or Winner?

    edit: you didn't mention Seungri, from what I saw I think Seungri was more like a Dara in the group in terms of vocal/dance/performance talent.

    I feel like psycho is atleasr red flavor level?

    I think that Psycho's rise to megapopularity and success got hobbled and hampered by the fact that due to Wendy's major injury at SBS, which instigated RV's 1.5 year hiatus, Psycho's promotion got cut short abruptly right at the start, and by the fact that Psycho got released around the same time as the #1 and #2 on Gaon's 2020 annual chart, Changmo's Meteor and Zico's Any Song.

    While Psycho did exceptionally well in spite of that, because of those factors Psycho's ability to rise and shine was less than it could have, and less than the song deserved.

    Growl has no objective criteria to be on any list, other than its Gallup ranking. If it didnt rank as well on Gallup, for 2 years, I would think it's relevance was another thing kpop fans simply made up. Its a hit, but not on the level of truly big ones like Spring Day/BWL/Dynamite, it would be in second tier big hits with DNA, IDOL, D4, LS and other songs with similar level of achievements.

    TT is overrated compared to Cheer Up based on data.

    The fact that it not only appeared once but twice on Gallup's ranking is already a strong indicator of the impact of a song with the general public in SK. Only a handful of songs have been able to do that (among them Growl, TT and Red Flavor).

    Minzy sure was the second best helping to stabilize their vocals and dance, but honestly all these praises and whatever about their stage presence is only present in CL... The group as a whole were pretty normal in this case.


    I think Blackjacks, YG stans and other (bandwagoning?) K-pop fans ascribed it too easily to the entire group, when it was actually just CL who hard carried 2NE1 in stage presence, while Minzy hard carried the quality level of their performance in vocals and dance.

    Without CL, the stage presence of 2NE1 as group was merely ok at best.

    Without Minzy, the dance and vocal level of 2NE1 as group was merely ok at best.

    But the same thing can be said for Big Bang tbf, everyone treated BB always as if it was 5 G-Dragon's in terms of extreme talent - but while the other BB members each had their own skills and contributions, they were nowhere near GD's level of talent.

    Without GD and his talents, Big Bang wouldn't have really been that special but just ok and even average in terms of talent (compared to other groups).

    But that's how it is with groups: the talents of the individual members are often 'transplanted' and ascribed to the full group, and to a lesser degree that also applies to the weaknesses of individual members.

    Looking forward to their debut. I enjoyed watching Juhyeon dance in The Unit. Finally someone that can rival the Itzy girls in dancing

    I'm not sure if their debut concept will allow them to really shine in dancing: Juhyeon's great at hiphop style and modern dance (Sangah too, although not on the same level as Juhyeon) and Chowon does fierce like no other, but from what I've seen so far, feels like Cube's going for a GFriend/CLC/IZ*One girl-next-door and cute style.

    But we'll see.