In the sports world, especially football, supporters of teams have had nicknames/fan names for decades - even for more than a century in some cases, and even within a teams supporter group there are occasions where a specific group of ultras has its own name. Why do kpop fans have to say everything starts from kpop. Is it a form of validation or something?
Where is the "Other" option? Anyways. The biggest problem I see is the expansion and normalization of "cultural hyperreality" or whatever you call the bending or even rejecting of reality and logic in order to facilitate parasocial relationships and group identification. I have never seen this phenomenon present in such a degree anywhere as I have during the last few weeks that i've been looking into kpop.
This was inspired by the bullying scandals, however I'm posting it to the lounge as it's a general life question.
Can people change who they are at their core? Can a mean person (for instance a high school bully) over time transform into a good person? or do you believe that people inside don't change, rather with age people mature and learn how to conduct their behavior to survive in society?
Change in hormone levels, neuroplasticity and change in brain structure, events like losing family members, friends, health problems, being part of the work force or just traveling or moving out of home, and the simple fact of accumulating more experiences, knowledge and wisdom as one grows old means that change is inevitable.
Now, can an asshole stop being an asshole? In cases of people with low empathy (psychopaths), or people with anti-social behaviour or personality disorders that is difficult I guess, but could happen with proper professional help. For the rest, yes it is possible to become a completely different person, I would say it in more cases it is the case. And even if they don't really change, the consequences are completely different in the adult world. You act as an asshole in your work, it is possible you will be fired, act like an asshole on the street, you never know how the other person would react in a given situation, and so on. So while they could still be assholes, they don't act it out as much.
You should check theory of mind if you are interested in this, I know it is the area of psychology which studies these things, but I am not a psychologist so there's that.
The problem is in the definition of the word refugee. In greece for example for many years until recently (namely before the whole Evros situation form last year), there was a huuuuuge push in the media and from political organizations, NGOs, and especially, political parties on the left to put economic migrants at the same position as refugees.
For example, pakistani, algerians, moroccons, afghanis, nigerians etc etc should be viewed the same as people from syria who were escaping war, and provided free housing, jobs etc. This, in a country who has lost more than 30% of its economy during the crisis, and unemployment in youths (under 35 yo) is around 40% and in general population just below 20%. When people started saying, this is not right, it makes no sense, they were attacked as racists etc. And then the way immigrants behavde in many cases was really aggressive, like putting fires and destroying property and facilities and equipment.
So when the evros crisis happened, there was no way media and politicians continue to push this, and now they are changing their positions and how they speak about immigration. There was a time when reporters and articles about pakistani would call them refugees. Now almost no media does that. But the situation was poisoned so much by the media and leftist parties (the coalition of the radical left party - SYRIZA - was government from 2015 to 2020 in greece) and the backlash inevitably crosses over to refugees and their status.
For me, refugees are refugees, you do what you must to help them. This does not mean you have to keep them for ever, only until it is safe to return back home. Immigrants are immigrants, if they don't follow the laws, there is no reason to be accepted by any country for whatever reason. And if a country wishes to limit immigration they have every right to do so.
I really don't know lol. I think it is because the America is west of South Korea so you know people call it western entertainment. I also think it might have to do with what some Knetz call the american industry. I think a lot of them call it the western industry or something similar so kpop stans use that name too. I kind of got used to it so I don't mind it.
Oh, i get it. It really seemed weird because for example in Europe each country has its own pop scene and they are very different from one another, not to include other music genres and scenes like rock or jazz or classical which still are western music/part of the western music industry too, so I was like, why are they saying western for the American pop when it also includes so many countries and scenes. it makes sense if the focus was on the US to view it like that and then it was taken up by the fans. thank you.
Since we are saying which industry we prefer I say kpop. Kpop has everything I was looking for. People that know how to present themselves musically, fan content, kind people and more. Recently, the western industry has become kind of boring. The songs aren't really what they used to be with hits here and there. It kind of reminds me of the Indian musical industry when I completely left it. The only western artist I hardcore stan now is Ariana Grande.
can I ask you something? I am not being aggresive or anything. I have seen this many times last weeks and it still gets under my skin when i see it and it kind of angers me, people in the kpop community saying western music, or western industry and even western pop, and they really mean top40 or mainstream american pop. Why is that? maybe it is just me, but i find it really weird. It is like me saying asian music and just mean kpop or jpop. makes no sense.
Those were some great examples, not gonna lie I found the modern jazz especially intriguing, if you have more on those I'd love to hear.
Yeah, I've heard from older people about the party scene in Europe in those days and how legendary they used to be, wish I'd lived in those times and could've experienced it :oops:
The American pop music scene might be regressing further and further - speeded up by American music companies who're only going for the bare bottomline - but as you said, it provides opportunities for music trends and artists all over the world to jump in and fill the gap, especially since internet and social media has made it so much easier to get acquainted with music from all over the world.
So it's sad to see how far American pop music (and not only its pop music) has fallen from its peaks in their glory days, but that's the way of change, other music genres and scenes incl non-American can blossom.
Yeah, I have been told stories about the raves and the open air parties too by older people. Everything sounded fun.
the american mainstream is more or less in complete collapse musically. The productions remain top notch most of the time (sound engineers and studios in the US are among the best in the world, definitely above kpop, so if a song has instruments recorded like strings, or brass or whatever, probably they are going to sound incredible). It helps that minimalism is the trend nowadays so you don't have to put a ton of different sounds and instruments in a song and can keep it simpler, so the mixes in american pop sound less chaotic. But yeah, in terms of melody and chords and song parts, they don't sound interesting most of the times. It makes sense if you are into pop to get bored of it and seek other scenes, and kpop seems to fill this gap nowadays.
For the jazz you mentioned, at this point, other than the US scene of course, the UK - especially London - scene is becoming really huge. It used to be japan, no it is the UK. There are also some south american artists which are making a name for themselves.
this guy is also awesome and becoming a big name in the last few yearsContent embedded from external sources will not be displayed without your consent.
I love her voice. She is from Chile.Content embedded from external sources will not be displayed without your consent.
I will also shamelessly plug in Magda just because she is from greece. She is more into the latin genres, samba bossa etc, but also composes other stuff. This song has such a summer feel to it.Content embedded from external sources will not be displayed without your consent.
I agree with what the users said previously. I would just like to add that people like to feel powerful and being smartasses and they like to bring other people down with it, I guess it makes them feel better (being the users or famous people/idols). Anonymity also helps with that. And being a kpop forum people get too emotionally invested and want just one narrative, so it's hard to have some double sided discussions. There is a lot of good users that are nice to have discussions about kpop or other things here too, but with some it's just not worth discussing if they are not even trying to understand your point. They'll never understand you, so it's not worth your effort or time.
That's my point of view at least. I don't know what kind of discussions were you talking about, but for me, I just concentrate on what I like to discuss here and don't even go to threads that are provocative, some people seem to provoke out of boredom (or to 'prove' how their faves are superior, but they just bring hate to them).
yes there are cool people in the forum. I had a couple of really nice discussions the previous days about music. It was really fun. But there are also people who are more antagonistic and aggressive it seems.
I don't have a problem with people correcting me when I am wrong. For example in that specific thread I admitted that my thinking had flaws and i asked how we could approach the question better because the other people also had flaws in their arguments. Some people want to get a victory over others and not discuss. I am aware of that. but I have never seen such antagonism to the point of calling someone stupid or clown or whatever, from the first one or two comments, and then continue calling them names after they gave up. It was an interesting experience and the comments here have given me a better perspective.
I'm really sorry you went through that. I thought you were talking about some snippiness or rudeness. Name calling and attacks is really out of line and against the rules. I hope that someone notified the mods and they took care of it for you. I hope your experiences in the future are much better. :)
No problem. Please don't think that it was something really awful. it was just so immediate and by so many people at once, I became a bit overwhelmed. And I was trying to have a conversation and some common ground and I was thinking, wait is this thing I am saying stupid, am i really a clown and stupid and stuff? Maybe i really said something wrong or offensive. I was so confused.
Hey thanks everyone for your comments. The name calling and attacking started immediately and caught me by surprise, that's all. Especially because i didn't say anything negative about anyone and was attacked from multiple users all at once and each comment I was trying to form a proper response 2 or 3 more would pop up. I have never seen something like that in the forums I was a member before and it was such a weird experience. Thank you all very much for your responses. They really helped understand the situation a bit more. Let's all have a great rest of the weekend.
I don't even know if this is the correct area to post this. Well since I am kind of new in the kpop related stuff and don't really use social media, and I have limited experience with interactions with kpop fans, other than reading these posts in this and a couple of other websites this really is weird.
Details are not important, but I see this thread, i vote that I disagree with the thread, and then I post why i disagree with the thread,as you do in forums to have a discussion. Did not attack the artist (even said they are huge), or any of the posters. My god, people immediately attacked me like there is no tomorrow. And with such rudeness. I did not troll, did not call anyone any names, presented my case and tried to have a discussion, even agreeing with people when they offered their arguments, yet my god the aggressiveness and the rudeness.
I have never seen such an immediate reaction to other forums I was a member of in the past (such a thing usually happens only after a significant number of posts and heated discussion). So is this normal for the website or am I just weird? I mean, ok i am a newbie in kpop related stuff I understand that, but I am sure people who have interacted with me in the past days know that I try to have conversations and I don't troll. This was such a weird experience? Wow! If this is what usually happens, why participate in such a forum in the first place.
The Global Recording Artist of the Year is an award presented by the International Federation of the Phonographic Industry (IFPI) to honor the best-performing recording artist based on a total of album-equivalent units, which include music downloads, streaming and physical format sales.
so I guess you remove everything that has to do with touring and the rest and just focus on streams and sales. Fair enough.
The biggest act in the world at present in 2021, BTS, has not had a world tour in the last 2 years. So when they do have a world tour, with however many dates they can fit in, maybe we will talk then. Even then if they do not tour for 2 to 3 years at a stretch, they would not have the biggest world tour, so again this whole contention is stupid.
ok, that's a fair argument. But to remove world touring as part of what makes a world act is also probably wrong. SO, what do we use to calculate this?
so much dumbness with your 'logic' in your post.... smh
the biggest music act in the world is literally the biggest music act in the world based on all music consumption globally. WTF is this using a single criteria, biggest world tours, when multiple criterias are factored in. Music business isn't just world tours alone.
just stop posting, idiot. thanks
And you stop being rude. Thanks. You could have expressed without being rude, right? So, how do we calculate global music consumption. What criteria do we follow?
Let me post this again, cause you missed itContent embedded from external sources will not be displayed without your consent.
And yes number of years do play a role, they had 2 full years of touring snatched away again due to covid. Everyone also cannot go on multiple tour dates cause BTS are actively putting out a lot of music with very high frequency which they need to work on, perform and promote. They aren't like artists who release music once in 3 years and tour the remaining time. Your entire contention is fallacious and the fact that you chose their touring numbers, possibly their greatest strength and something where their whole potential has not even been unleashed shows me your bare minimum understanding of the phenomenon that BTS is. So carry on being ignorant and making flawed comparisons.
Everybody was hit by covid.
Why is it bad to release music every 2 or 3 years. Like you said. If you have to promote in more than 60 countries and have multiple stops in each country, this leads to tours lasting for more than a year, sometimes more than 2. It is impossible to release music every 4 or 6 months when you are on the road for that long. Than you have to rest for a fe months mayby half a year. So I don't get why this is a problem.
My logic is simple, the biggest act in the world has the biggest world tour. Is it wrong?
What tone? Lol...They had the biggest concerts this year and last. You living in the past.
You ignoring this too?
this does not include artists who did not release music in 2020 am I right?
Damn you really don't know anything about BTS or their global demand to be spewing this...lmao.
Practically every obscure country the Korean Pres visists has the head of the state talking about BTS and requesting BTS concerts. Just in their very short career, their touring numbers are already massive.
BTS are probably the biggest boyband of the last 10, maybe more. Anyone denying this must be a little misinformed. That does not mean they are the biggest music act in the world. Like I said to another user, the question is exactly this, are they the biggest music act in the world. It is logical to assume that the biggest act in the world would have the biggest world tours. I look at the recent world tours, BTS do not have the biggest world tours. Ergo, BTS are not the biggest world act. This does not mean they are not huge. Where exactly is the error in my thinking?
Why don’t you take your lovely chart and mail it to Mr Chris Martin, Care of Coldplay. He said it. We are just agreeing with him. He could have said Olivia, he could have said Ed, he could have said Ariana, he could have said Justin but he fucking didn’t.
And I disagree with him and the people who agree with him, and I presented my reasons. i really don't get your tone.
Their tour was cancelled lmao who knows what numbers they would of pulled. Someone is in denial about BTS success it seems...
Anyways this is the only evidence I need for this thread
quote me exactly where I say BTS are not successful, or that they are not massive. But to be the biggest act in the world you have to have the biggest world tours, or else it does not make sense. Which BTS did not have until now. So i don't get your tone
BTS have barely even toured compared to these artists and they are already amongst the biggest touring acts in the world. Are you purposely being dumb? Comparing an 8 year old act's touring numbers to that of acts which have been in music for several decades? And despite that you can see where they stand.Content embedded from external sources will not be displayed without your consent.Content embedded from external sources will not be displayed without your consent.
The question is if they are currently the biggest act in the world. My argument is that they are not. I did not say they are not massive or one of the biggest acts of the world. I have noticed this phenomenon, when people on this forum do not read carefully what the other person has written.
Also, the number of years they are active plays no role in the question if they are the biggest act in the world.