Posts by bbgc

Valid post. Even within charts, there is highly idiotic data-slicing/dicing to somehow get a high.

Take for example 'fastest', an utterly useless parameter - if BTS or IU accidentally release a recording of them coughing or gargling, it might still end up climbing the chart fastest or something. This is not some track and field athletic event.. to bother about being the fastest hah..

Even PAKs based on hourly/daily/weekly aren't that reliable indicator, at least not by hitting it once, which could be purely circumstantial,

ULs are a far better indicator and longevity - both are far better correlations to actual sales. Charts do provide that information, not during the mad-rush around release, but eventually.

At least the artists seem to be well aware of what matters and the mature ones do say that they are far prefer longevity.

Weeks at top #100, for how long since the release date, that top 100 ranking is maintained is perhaps the best quantitative indicator.

With most fields, the flash in the pan onetime top ranking and then never heard of - people and products are all too common.

Still charts play the game to feed the emotional frenzy of shallow fandom.

I have stopped checking any release which is not at least a month old.

Quote from SunnySun

I don't see more than 5%, i don't see LSM giving the majority of the shares, even so 8% of the shares is a small amount, even if Kakao M gets 8% they don't get to decide anything, the majority votes decide.

The only person which gets to truly decide if they hold more than 50% of shares of a company. If the majority shareholder holds voting shares, they dictate the direction of the company through their voting power which is far from whats happening here.

Simplistically it is 51% yes, but corporate structures are complicated. Public investors, institutional investors etc. and there are varieties of stocks themselves. So in reality one need not have 50+% to dictate the direction of the company, it is only needed for drastic decisions like take overs, mergers etc., or on fictional stuff like dramas.

After all LSM has been deciding direction with 18%.

But anyway, all in realm of speculation. % of stocks and whether KakaoM seeks to alter the direction - we won't know yet.

Quote from SunnySun

coordinate their schedule timing? lol SM don't care about their own artists timing, let alone other 100 kakao m artists, collaborations won't change, Kakao M will have a small part of their shares, SM isn't becoming a Kakao M subsidiary

"small" depends on the set up of the management, seems LSM has 18% and rest majors have 8%, so if Small is 8%+ , KakaoM might get to decide things, if not, then it is just an investment.

If SM is doing so bad in coordinating their assets, maybe they do need some change to their management.

Thing about 'emotions' is that it is two way, and the reason different people have different favorites.

Like 'virality' there is no freaking way to verify or measure 'emotional connect', and once an artist gets some reputation of emotional delivery, newer audience will mostly prime their own emotions to imagine emotions in the singing of that artist.

And once an artist is dubbed emotionless, many will be primed against the artist.

Yes there are certain vocal combos which are emotionally appealing to the general public and anyone executing those consistently well will be appealing to the public. And those combos are not always the best in terms of vocal technique.

So there is really nothing to argue about this, either a song evokes something in the listener or not - vocal skills are rather peripheral and that changes from listener to listener, or even each time of listening That is why a song by a loved family member or friend is enjoyed, even if it is just decent :)

More number of people clicked into the emotional priming for an artists, more the artist is considered an emotional singer.

Like charisma, there is no charts or scale to measure it.

Popular compared to what, on what scale, which market?

What is the total music sales/market today - all combined - kpop, trot, classical, folk etc. and what what percentage is Kpop?

And do the same in 2009-2013 period, then you would know.

It is nonsensical to compare absolute numbers or new markets like the US.

The whole paradigm has changed to assume the same context, social media explosion, digital and stream platforms all will skew such comparison.

So only good measure is 2nd gen kpop share of market % in Korea during their peak VS. 3rd gen Kpop share of market % in Korea during its peak.

I doubt there would be much difference.

Quote from BUTTERBOYS

Madonna pushed boundaries and challenged society, church. Became spokeperson of gay people when everyone looked down on them and stood for hiv patients , when it was called gay disease.

She pushed her sexuality to extreme and sold a sex book lol

She went dangerous

She wasnt making safe music and staying in her saint image. Iu comparison makes no sense.

Can iu push boundaries like Madonna and still have a career? Na. She is good at what she does

But she is no Madonna either music diversity wise or image wise jeez

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Pushing boundaries in music is what matters, not social activism, which after all could be for promotional purposes.

Madonna recently got stomped for trying to play the woke-victim of masculinity-card.

And anyway to compare that, you have to consider the cultural setting too, S.Korea is far more a sane-conservative society, than the loony-liberalism of the US. Where it is gotten so worse, that a N.Korean escapee is reminded of the censorship in N.Korea, while studying in Columbia.

In US culture, to go against/rebel against the traditions-history of the country/culture is valued, that is not the case with S.Korea to a comparable extent.

It is futile to compare artists or anyone outside their core skill, what next - that Madonna can lift more weights than IU?

Wonder how the data will look if soloists are added, IU herself will drastically change things, then there is Paul Kim.Ailee maybe. The solo careers of G-Dragon and Taeyeon.

It would be good have the data with soloists and without soloists.

Quote from chounim

I don't understand these butthurt posts. This is not about SM buying other agencies, nor is Kakao buying SM, they only acquired stake in the company and we don't even know the size yet. What's the difference between this and Naver acquiring shares in SM and YGE and HYBE subsidiaries before? So what you're doing here is a fake equivalency.

True, but it matters in the sense that "acts" under aligned interests can better coordinate their schedule timings, to maximize impact-profit, collaborate better etc.

Keeping fan-wars going with grander coalitions/consolidations, with an occasional rebellion works well for profits.

I am sure enough Jungkook IU shippers would already be writing that the star-crossed lovers are going to be in opposing camps of the galactic war..

will be amusing... but good for profits of both camps.

Quote from WhyKnock

What happens is the companies also charge 'Production Costs" to whatever the singers earn. SM is the most notorious of them. it is quite good siphoning the earnings for the singers to private paper companies owned by Sooman Lee and his family.

Big Hit / Hybe also charges a royal ransom to the singers, as the GFriend fiasco showed. GFriend's finances worsened because Hybe significantly increased the 'fees' for each promotion. BTS might have a different arrangement but txt and enhypen won't escape the fees.

IU owns Edam entertainment for all practical purposes. Even before that, she was the sole singer of KakaoM music department by herself so she controlled her own expenses. So, on 2017, the KakaoM music department earned $16 million, total expenses were $7 million (including whatever going to KakaoM), and Lee Jieun pocketed the rest, making herself the highest earning singer in both Korea and Japan.

Since she owns Edam, all the expenses going to the company are instead going to herself, an advantage even BTS can't beat.

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Assuming all the above is true, that means that she is one smart businesswoman as well, to have negotiated such a deal. Maybe BTS will have such options once the current contract ends.

Nevertheless from the perspective of the public, fans and history, neither IU nor BTS are going to be remembered for the millions they earned, but rather the impact they had on music.

In 3rd generation of Kpop.. hmm.

If Spring day had PAK-ed, it would have been perfect, still amazing longevity.

Real estate speculation, CF and acting earnings, company ownership etc. are not reasonable ways to compare artists, those things are collateral to the core skills and identity - which is music.

What is the royalty split in K-pop?

I think in the west it is

6-8% - Singer(s)

15-20% - Songwriter (including lyricist)

45-65% - Producers

rest% - others- label etc.

Of course often the label is the producer.

Assuming the same percentages.

IU has been her own lyricist for long now, some composing and since Chat-shire, doing bulk of her production, at least as the executive producer. So probably earns 40-50% of the royalty of each song.

With BTS, only Suga has been consistently doing songwriting and production. Others occasionally foray, but are mostly performers, which does get split 7 ways.

Looking at the credits of BTS songs, most seem to have 10 people including Hitman Bang, on songwriting, production etc. while IUs teams are pretty small, rarely exceeds 2 people.

So BTS singers might be getting < 5% per song, Suga might be averaging maybe 20% vs. IU's 40-50%.

Assuming their sales in S.Korea are comparable, still BTS members get a smaller bit from a much larger larger pie than IU, since their market is international.

Otherwise comparing their wealth is pointless. Revenue streams other than songs, should not matter to measure their success.

Quote from omnimorphism

Composed as composer and released in her album. As I mentioned in the OP, she composed Dreaming and Hold My Hand before. But Dreaming was never released and Hold My Hand is an OST. And yes, she has composer credits for Lost Puppy, as I showed from the KOMCA website.

ah.. thanks

Composed - as in lyrics or as in music?

I think lyrics, she did for few earlier,

There was a song with Yoo Seung Ho for his show and "Along in the Room" for EP-Real

Lyrics and Music,

Hold My Hand, might be first. Or could be that song for Dream High - "Dreaming", did it get released?

Stray Puppy is part of Last Fantasy got released only in Nov 2011. All the above songs were earlier than that.

And she is not credited for the Music composition for this song?

The first song released with lyrics and music in an Album/EP, not OST etc. would be 'Peach'

If including OST, then it is 'Hold My Hand'

Quote from Afriyieau1

This really shows how little relevant the idol music has on Korean music industry. Just the big groups are making it as always. Was expecting to see OMG. Do you think brave girls can get in this year??

It is to be expected that soloists dominate when it comes to longevity.

It is 'melody' which lingers in memories and not bops or other 'busy' music, which give temporary highs for a short period and then fade away. Ask anybody over 40+ of the songs they remember from their teens or twenties, they will remember the melodies more than any other type - even monster hits of their teens, they have to consciously remember or be prompted about.

And idol groups churn the proportion of melodies to bops-beats is very low on melodies.

Quote from WhyKnock

The problem is she has to divide her time in music and acting, something few people now do. Idols who began to act made a full transition to acting, and it was kinda rare that people in the position of IU spent a sizable time acting.

So she can't really run any long term tv shows.

It is said that KakaoM might buy SM, since Mr. Sooman Lee might have doubts on his sons' management acumen. That will change the game but that is somewhere in the horizon.

It is true that since IU will stand no chance fighting people like BTS directly she is going for a long term strategy, build enough network of supporters who can continue the fight for quite a while.

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I think she will figure out how to 'divide' her time, that is not a big challenge. It is very much possible that she reduces actual singing performances, but take on more composing, the song to Jung Seung Hwan might be the first of many. It is production/performance which takes the bulk of the time, not as much lyric writing and composing.

So she would increase the time on acting, while still keeping a good presence in music. TV shows might be tougher though, movies are better planned.

Whichever route Kakao M takes, there is a good chance that she might have a massive influence on the 'content' side of the business i.e. the artists, while KakaoM handles the technology, money etc. She has the chops for it.

BTS is yet another crest, eventually they will also subside, tastes change, new acts come etc., apart from artistry, what matters is the networks built, mutual investments etc. in any industry. There I think IU is in a great position.

But this post is about business - Hybe vs. Edam and the way it is presented is misleading. LOEN had a long history and backing of SK, Melon and then Kakao M took over. So by the nature of her backing, I don't think there is really a business gap between her and the big 3/4.

If Kakao M does acquire SM, then she would be the 'Senior Singer' of most artists in SM still.

Artistic popularity gaps are not a big deal, they come and go, ever fluctuating, you should know, you have been predicting that X group or Y group whenever they achieve fame, will push her out, has not happened yet, has it?

She can easily ride through BTS period as well - the advantages of starting so young and even if she does not, her artistic legacy is secure beyond doubt.

Never mind international fans etc., which too is a passing phase. Every decade or so, a genre of music from some country will dominate and then it will get merged - Latin America had a big push in the previous period. Now it is Kpop.

The music itself is anyway barely native Korean and now even the language/expressions are increasingly English and generic. So BTS might be the peak for both themselves and Kpop.

But then, IU might be following a different model

This was discussed in the 2017 episode of Happy Together, the links between

IU and Yoo Hee Yeol - association is too long to list

IU andJung Jae-hyung - is also long, from Good Day to Lilac

IU and Peppertones - The Red Shoes- Modern Times

IU and Sam Kim - Ending Scene, Palette

IU and Jung Seung Hwan - 2 songs,

So the talk was about getting IU joining Antenna Music, joking that they can't afford her etc.

Since then,

Jukjae from IU's team signs up with Antenna for his solo career, of all the agencies he could have chosen.

Recently, IU's first composition for another artist, beyond just lyrics, is to Jung Seung Hwan

In The Game Caterers episode, another conversation, but this time about IU buying Antenna Music, and she turned down the offer from YHY.

Finally Kakao M acquires shares of Antenna Music in May.

Since WhyKnock proposes that IU is the effective owner of EDAM, then does it not lead that she has stakes in Kakao M as well and hence has pushed for this investment by Kakao M in Antenna?

Then is IU building a Queendom if not an Empire, all behind the scenes.

A different model from HYBE or the 3, a network of smaller but resilient actors.

In real estate, location is the core, everything else is secondary. In entertainment, content is the king, everything else is secondary. And IU is in a pretty good position, to be the leader of the "Rebel alliance", i.e. everyone who is not in the Big 4. That would give her/EDAM control over the majority of content, Kakao M would be happy counting the profits, taking care of the technology side.

From veterans to the newbies, everyone wants her imprimatur, so she might as well replace YHY via Antenna and the Sketchbook position in a decade or so, a sort of Anna Wintour of fashion, the arbitrator of taste in kpop industry.

Who knows, she might replace MAMA, GDA etc., start giving out her own Bonsangs and Daesangs. :)