Posts by booople

    a strong leader?

    A strong leader like AOA Jimin is accused of being bully/ harsh towards member. How you draw the line between bully and just being strong leader?

    She wasn't a strong leader. By strong I mean someone who is caring and morally upright while also being assertive. I do think managers and trainers get some insight into each person's personality during the training years. Even if not, I don't think the leader should be selected based on age with no leadership training. I think all trainees should be trained in behavior and conduct- how to treat people respectfully and confront situations they don't like and someone who shows an exemplary understanding of how to treat others and care for the group members should be picked as the leader. Obviously, it's not foolproof but it's better than just going with the oldest. Group members will confide in their leader more easily if there are difficulties than with their manager.

    Yeah, you did remind me of a few things about Tiffany (she probably would not have been as respected on variety shows as Tae was because of her poor Korean). And perhaps Sunny arguably can be too youthful at times (in the early days at least). I do think Taeyeon had some really positive qualities to her like when they were all at an amusement part and I got to see some of her leadership skills- Sunny really wanted to ride a certain ride for the 3rd time and pouted and Taeyeon said they had to do other things all around the park but then she said "Okay we will ride it once more to appease you and then we will move onto other things". So I have seen Taeyeon make decisions with her members' desires at the forefront of her mind. And I do remember her being very empathetic to the staff eating on the floor and crying about it which is a nice trait to see from a leader. So I don't think she did a horrible job or anything. I was just quite surprised by the whole Taeyeon/Jessica freeze-out going on for so long. But I guess she just couldn't fake how she felt. And in some ways that is an admirable quality, to be transparent. But just coming from a leader, I guess it wasn't what I expected.

    But I do think Taeyeon is super humble.

    And I wasn't speaking from a place of bias either. I'm a fan of both SNSD and TWICE and my favorites in SNSD are Taeyeon (I find her relatable and like her personality and of couse vocals) and Jessica is also a favorite. In TWICE, I do really like Jihyo but I don't really have a favorite. It changes a lot. It's Mina right now.

    I never called Taeyeon a weak leader. Let's not make assumptions. I said she didn't relish the leader position. It's exactly what she said. Numerous times she stated it was hard for her and said she's a timid person and all of the members are the same age and it was hard for her to do that. Later perhaps things were different. But initally, I do remember those exact words coming out of her mouth on quite a few occasions, Strong Heart being one I think.


    Nor did I say that there was bullying within SNSD. I don't believe I ever stated that or intimated that there was ever bullying within SNSD yet most of your reply is centered around refuting that. Having disagreements and conflicts doesn't go straight to bullying. Don't assume please. I said that there was clearly conflict between Jessica and Taeyeon, which I also said I believed was unrelated to Jessica leaving. But I do not believe it was just SM pushing Jessica out and the other members not playing a part in it at all. Did I say bullying? Nope. I never said it was personal either.

    I'm not sure what else to say because your reply is mostly all about how bullying could have never happened within SNSD and how their present relationship with each other proves that...yet I never stated that bullying ever happened within SNSD.


    I simply said that Taeyeon didn't relish the leader position (initally atleast), how she didn't hide her dislike for Jessica between 2011-2013, and how it is of my opinion that Sunny would be better suited for the leader role. But did I ever say that Taeyeon did a bad job as a leader? Nope. But does that mean she did the best job anyone in the group could have done? I don't think so. Obviously, there's no way to prove since the oppurtunity was only given to one member. But you don't need a crystal ball to have insights into each member's personality. I do think Sunny is more oriented towards a leadership role or perhaps Tiffany. The thing Taeyeon has that they often don't though is that she seems calmer. Me saying that things might have been a tad different if Sunny had been the leader instead of Taeyeon doesn't in any way immediately translate to me saying that Taeyeon did a bad job. But I do think the leader of the group sets precedent for how a group should treat each other and if Taeyeon was openly ignoring Jessica on camera for close to 2 years. it sends the message that it's okay for a leader to treat a member in a very personal way above a professional way. Obviously Taeyeon didn't throw tantrums and say "I don't want to sing with her on stage". She was slightly professional but she didn't seem professional enough. And if this was happening between any 2 members besides Taeyeon it might seem different. A leader ignoring a member on camera just doesn't look the best, regardless of whoever is in the wrong.


    It all just makes me curious as to what actually happened between them. Regardless of even if it was Jessica who was in the wrong and Taeyeon was simply reacting to her, after a few weeks one should collect themselves as a leader and go back to maintaining normal contact with the member she dislikes in front of fans. That's all I feel. It's simple. But you took it out of proportion and turned it into potential bullying within SNSD, how there could never have been any bullying based on the way they treat each other today and how close they are and so on and on.

    Taeyeon isn't an example of a bad kpop leader nor is SNSD an example of a group that has been behaved poorly with each other. Atleast not compared to many other groups there. I never stated she or they are the worst. I stated that I don't think the leader should automatically be the oldest member. It's silly.


    You can agree to disagree without jumping to conclusions about what I said. I don't think Taeyeon was the most fit to be a leader out of SNSD. I do think TWICE Jihyo is the most naturally fit to be a leader in TWICE.

    But what will happen if the leader is the one that causes the bully? Just asking your opinion and this is not related to any group

    But that's why the leader can't just be anyone or can't just be the oldest member. The potential leader should undergo some training on how to be a good leader and the other members as well should be trained on how to respect each other and counseled. After that, its up to them.

    So I think companies should evaluate characters and behaviors, not just skill. JYP seems to do that. They focus on character.

    Somin and Jimin were never fit to be leaders. It shouldn't be based on age.

    It's hard but if there's going to be a leader, that position shouldn't just be thrown out to someone who has no idea how to do it. They'll end up abusing it. Or they'll end up being a good leader. But a company shouldn't take that chance.

    But that's not what astrology fully is. Your zodiac or sun sign is a big part of your personality. But your moon sign, ascendant, venus, mars, mercury are all very important. And even more important I think is the specific planetary aspects. Like Moon Conjunct Mercury. etc. It's the specific placements of the planets and more importantly, their relation to each other at the time you were born. The houses your signs fall in is also important. Someone might not resemble their sun sign as closely if their ascendant and other things like mars/venus are more prominent in their chart. Astrology is very complex but you barely chipped away a little of it. Look up your birth chart and read about each aspect in your chart and all planetary placements and then see. Maybe you would agree, maybe you won't.

    I believe that about JYP too. JYP has himself said he wanted to TWICE to be a healthy group- in mind especially. I do think they have been counseled in some way about how to behave with each other and about respect.

    As we've seen leaders can be involved or passive in bullying. So even if there a strong leader who's to say they aren't part of the problem too?


    I think a bigger role should be on companies. If a idol says they're being bullied then they should look into it properly instead of handwave boys/girls will be boys/girls. That sort of scenario happens in schools where teachers are aware or told about bullying but they don't act on and if they do often the punishments are very weak like a couple days suspension. That does nothing to sort the situation and only keeps the victim in pain. If companies have a zero tolerance policy then a lot these problems won't continue and the victim at least has a way out of their predicament instead of silently suffering for years and years


    The problem isn't in the leader the problem is with the company letting this type of things happening with their groups

    That's of course true too but I was speaking in addition to that. The role of the company and managers has always seemed the most important to me. I was speaking of my newer discovery- recently, I've come to see that the leader plays a big role too. I never said the company isn't responsible or that the leader trumps the company.


    The company is undoubtedly the most responsible. Knowing tensions can arise within a group, it's up to the managers to check on all the members and help anyone if they need help.


    But I don't agree with saying that the problem isn't the leader. No, with Korea's age and power hierarchy I do believe that a kind, fair and caring leader is essential to a group.


    "As we've seen leaders can be involved or passive in bullying. So even if there a strong leader who's to say they aren't part of the problem too?"

    But that's exactly what I'm saying. The leaders who are involved or passive in bullying aren't strong leaders. To be a strong leader is not to be simply assertive.

    It is to be kind, caring and have a high moral standard.

    I would honestly doubt bullying in a group where the leader is the kind that I just described.

    It helps set the tone for the group and establishes the group dynamic.


    Twice have time and time again attributed one of the reasons for why they barely argue as a group to Jihyo's ability to gather all the girls' opinions on something, organize it and mediate discussions.


    Unrelated, but I do feel if SNSD had a leader who really relished the role, the group dynamic might have been a bit different. As we know, Taeyeon offically stepped down from the leader role early on and didn't enjoy it much and didn't feel they really need one as most of the members are the same age. She said she's not overly assertive and it was hard for her.

    Now, I really like Taeyeon and it's fine if she didn't want to be the leader. I think it's absolutely silly and rubbish that they give it to the person with the first birthday anyway. It should be given to the one who really wants the leader role and whom the other members vote for as well.

    Taeyeon was never the enforcing type. She wasn't the kind to enforce things a certain way or establish rules. She's a bit more independent and free-spirited, along with being quite opinionated and stubborn I think.

    The job of a leader is also to mediate between the other members and prevent arguments from getting out of hand.

    Now, I don't believe that the weight of it all falls on Taeyeon (or any leader) alone. Obviously, it is up to everyone.

    But I do think when a leader is more of an enforcer (in a good way), more likely to check on all of the members and set rules and organize opinions and basically, in short, someone who enjoys managing people, then it really can help the group.

    All of SNSD is getting along fine except for Jessica.

    And I don't believe that is Taeyeon's fault as a I said. I think things went on behind the scenes both from SNSD's side and Jessica's side.

    But as we've seen, from 2011-2013 Taeyeon and Jessica had a bit of a fall-out. I do not think this fall out was directly related to Jessica's departure (the two had become friendlier with each other in 2014). But, it did say something about the group dynamic. Jessica would try to interact with Taeyeon in front of fans but Taeyeon would not reciprocate. We don't know what went on behind the scenes. Maybe Taeyeon was really hurt by something and could not fake her feelings. We can't say who was in the wrong. But for the sake of being a little professional and for the sake of the group dynamic (makes things a little awkward for the other members too), one could behave in a more friendly and polite manner even if something's going with their group member.


    I do think the group dynamic of the other girls with Jessica might be just a tad different if Sunny had been the leader. But I can't say.


    And I am a fan of all the members individually. I like Taeyeon and Jessica a lot especially. I just find it strange how they pretend they never had 9 members. It seems almost silly and immature.

    Sometimes the role of a leader seemed kind of useless to me. Besides organizing people's opinions and helping make decisions, it didn't seem like a huge role.


    But it is. I can see that now, I've always seen it for a while, but now more than ever.


    Have you noticed most of the bullying cases happened in groups where the leader was a bully too?


    AOA.


    Also- April.


    Somin was clearly also rude to Hyunjoo and the others followed suit. Hyunjoo's brother named Somin and you can see Somin being a bit cold to Hyunjoo on camera, she even pinched her once, but I'm sure way worse went on off camera. I'm inclined to believe Hyunjoo. There are quite a few moments of the other members being standoffish to Hyunjoo on camera. Like Hyunjoo was pretending to eat food once but pretending she's picking up food with her chopsticks, while they are waiting for their food to arrive, and Jinsol watches her and says "what the f***?" to Naeun. Many clips of members glaring at her too. It always looked more like the girls were laughing at her than with her. And do you think any of this would have happened if Somin was a really fair and kind leader and treated Hyunjoo very well? I doubt it. The other girls would have behaved differently knowing the leader won't stand for rudeness. Korea follows a major age hierarchy system.


    It's one of the reasons why I never suspect bullying in TWICE. Not only do most of the members have rather passive personalities (passive doesn't mean weak, just means not overly assertive or confrontational), but also Jihyo would never stand for any misbehavior. The other unnies like Jeongyeon and Nayeon wouldn't either.

    Omg we have the same favess :cutes:

    I can see why those are her favorites. Dahyun has the sense of humor, dorkiness and goofiness that Taeyeon has often had too. But Dahyun can also be quiet and introverted like Taeyeon. Maybe she relates to Dahyun a little. Sana is also light-hearted and playful and sweet. And Jihyo can also be dorky and silly but is also loud and energetic. Taeyeon tends to gravitate towards playful, energetic and talkative people (Tiffany, Yeri, Hyeri)

    Is Sana singing at 2:58?

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    It actually sounds really good. She sounds angelic and it's moving.

    I don't know if she would be able to do the highest note/ belt thing at the end because her voice is more thin but she could do rest of the line

    She said Dahyun, Sana, and Jihyo are her faves.

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    That was already proven to be false. The picture was from 3 years ago when the veterinarian was visiting. The person that took the picture even clarified that. His pets are well taken care of at one of his sprawling properties outside Seoul since his schedule is busy and he lives in an apt.


    Shut TF up of you don't know what you're talking about and don't have the facts.

    and provide the proof and resources for this information you are spouting?