HYBE: Expectations vs Reality

  • When BTS was the only Hybe/Bighit group there was a lot of theories of what the agency would be known for. Like SM is known for top visuals, amazing vocals and bad rap. YG groups got good rappers and strong stage presence etc.. When people tried to predict what Bighit/Hybe's thing would be they basically just described BTS or something that sounded similar to YG but less extreme and with good dancing.


    So now that Hybe finally debuted a girl group I thought it'd be fun to see how it actually turned out :danceb:


    Expectations: (what people thought Hybe(/Bighit) would be known for)

    • Strong rappers, potentially becoming the best rap agency
    • Unique and diverse vocal tones
    • Don't focus on technique for vocalists
    • Strong dancers
    • Good choreographies
    • Strong stage presence
    • Artist's that are involved in music production
    • Deep/meaningful lyrics
    • Attractive visuals but doesn't necessarily fit the kbs and all look different from each other (basically just how armys describe BTS)

    Reality: (mostly just based on TXT, Enhypen and Le Sserafim since they are the newer groups Hybe debuted themselves)

    • No rapping
    • Perfect pop-voices
    • Autotune
    • Don't focus on technique for vocalists (though Le Sserafim might be a sign this is changing)
    • Amazing dancers
    • Amazing choreography, agency with the best choreographies
    • Meaningful lyrics
    • Lore
    • Visual focused agency. Probably the most visual focused after SM
    • Sweet, girl/boy next door visuals
    • Awkward on variety shows? (Enhypen were soo awkward when starting out and I remember similar critic of TXT)


    So what do you think :danceb:Is reality better or worse than the expectations?

  • do u think its for the better or the worse that other hybe groups are not like bts?

    BTS is probably still the group I consider the best but I don't mind that the other groups are different. Le Sserafim is one of my favorite rookie groups and got a soft spot for Enhypen. I just find it interesting how it changed. Like rapping. BTS was literally supposed to be a rap group originally and now Hybe completely abandoned rapping

  • BTS is probably still the group I consider the best but I don't mind that the other groups are different. Le Sserafim is one of my favorite rookie groups and got a soft spot for Enhypen. I just find it interesting how it changed. Like rapping. BTS was literally supposed to be a rap group originally and now Hybe completely abandoned rapping

    Perhaps it was a deliberate choice to avoid comparisons with bts

  • i think better. They will hate them more if it’s a carbon copy of BTS. I’m happy that Enhypen is being real instead of trying to force themselves to be goofy all the time. I honestly dont get the obsession with variety shows. I want them to be more mysterious or somehow elusive than act like a comediane . 😂

  • I think what hasn't been considered is the fact that Hybe considers itself a parent company and each of those groups that you are using to define "Hybe" are actually all under different labels with the exception of TXT. We have yet to see the amount of autonomy each really holds since all of those labels came under Hybe relatively recently and all the groups themselves are young. Among those listed, TXT is the most developed and they are also only group under the same actual label as BTS.


    Just points to account for. The dynamic is probably going to be different than a company who is just one label.

  • i think better. They will hate them more if it’s a carbon copy of BTS. I’m happy that Enhypen is being real instead of trying to force themselves to be goofy all the time. I honestly dont get the obsession with variety shows. I want them to be more mysterious or somehow elusive than act like a comediane . 😂

    *Me thinking of all Jay's embarrassing moments* yeah... "mysterious and elusive" :teeheek: not the two words I'd use

  • I think what hasn't been considered is the fact that Hybe considers itself a parent company and each of those groups that you are using to define "Hybe" are actually all under different labels with the exception of TXT. We have yet to see the amount of autonomy each really holds since all of those labels came under Hybe relatively recently and all the groups themselves are young. Among those listed, TXT is the most developed and they are also only group under the same actual label as BTS.


    Just points to account for. The dynamic is probably going to be different than a company who is just one label.

    Fair. But they're obviously quite connected. Like I think the majority of Enhypen were trainees under Bighit and Le Sserafim isn't exactly similar to Gfriend. The agencies send trainees between each other and all groups are clearly colored by being under Hybe with multiple similarities (like I listed above)

    • Awkward on variety shows? (Enhypen were soo awkward when starting out and I remember similar critic of TXT)



    Every time I hear this take I imagine that those people are following a newly debuted group for the first time. They're rookies, they're not used to the camera yet and there is also that feeling of nervousness to do well. After some experience they get used to it. It's completely normal.

  • For Reality, you didn't put Stage Presence? Personally I feel like Le Sserafim is probably going to end up being known for it at least. I don't follow TXT/Enhypen so I can't speak for them but that's not one of their strong points too?

    Yeah. I don't think they're known for stage presence. Not bad, not good. Fans obviously love their performances but I don't see TXT or Enhypen frequently mentioned as groups with strong stage presence so I just left it out.


    Le Sserafim's are killing it but they just debuted so I didn't wanna put to much weight on it. Especially since two of their members have already debuted previously.

  • Fair. But they're obviously quite connected. Like I think the majority of Enhypen were trainees under Bighit and Le Sserafim isn't exactly similar to Gfriend. The agencies send trainees between each other and all groups are clearly colored by being under Hybe with multiple similarities (like I listed above)

    I'm saying it's a factor we should include, that's all. Will the new Ador group be like Le Sserafim? Sure they'll be under Hybe, but they'll also be under Min Heejin who was creative director over at SM. Will it have an effect? We'll see.

  • For Reality, you didn't put Stage Presence? Personally I feel like Le Sserafim is probably going to end up being known for it at least. I don't follow TXT/Enhypen so I can't speak for them but that's not one of their strong points too?

    For BG, no one really calls out stage presence except stans. GG don't really seem to have this issue unless they are huge with a similarly dedicated fandom.

  • So your expections is literally Trainee A, They are debuting in Q4 or Q1 2023


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  • Every time I hear this take I imagine that those people are following a newly debuted group for the first time. They're rookies, they're not used to the camera yet and there is also that feeling of nervousness to do well. After some experience they get used to it. It's completely normal.

    I've been into kpop for like six years, followed multiple rookie groups, and Enhypen was one of the most awkward ones I've seen, especially considering they're from a bigger agency who usually give their artists variety show training. Normally being from a survival show also mean that the group will be better at variety but doesn't seem to be the case with Enhypen. They've improved a lot but for example Treasure, Skz and TBZ are all better based on what I've seen

  • Idk about hybe but i just wanna say that lesserafim are great performers to watch; they have a combination of both charisma and charms as well as visuals and skills, which makes their performances very enjoyable and visually appealing, and honestly you can’t ask for much more than that

  • So your expections is literally Trainee A, They are debuting in Q4 or Q1 2023


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    Not really mine, I just listed stuff I remember other people saying and theorizing over


    But I suppose Trainee A is closer to what people were expecting. Have't they been accused of copying BTS already

  • im not sure about the boy group, but Le Sserafim is top tier when comes to performing and stage presence. So maybe that's their strong point?


    For the 4th gen GG, LSRF -> NMIXX -> Kep1er -> IVE in term of stage presence.

    Idk about hybe but i just wanna say that lesserafim are great performers to watch; they have a combination of both charisma and charms as well as visuals and skills, which makes their performances very enjoyable and visually appealing, and honestly you can’t ask for much more than that

    Le Sserafim's debut stages were amazing but I haven't seen as much praise for TXT and Enhypen. In general they seem to be considered above average but not top performers or anything so I decided to not list stage presence.


    Le Sserafim also have two already debuted members and Yunjin was a Pledis trainee already before Hybe acquired them.

  • No company wants to debut same types of groups or have one type of group. It makes sense to create groups different from each other to avoid competition between your groups. Sm is known for vocals but nct is more rap focused than exo. Same with aespa compared to rv their concept, dance and singing style do not overlap with rv. Hybe didn't want to create another bts style group that will anger armys against the new group. They went for a very different image. Trainee a is more in bts style that is after 2 boy groups debut and bts being nearly 10 year old. Similar we can see treasure is different to winner. While ikon was different from winner even though both are yg groups. Blackpink and 2ne1 may be similar but by the time blackpink debut happened, 2ne1 was long inactive so there was no overlap or competitoon between them.

  • Not really mine, I just listed stuff I remember other people saying and theorizing over


    But I suppose Trainee A is closer to what people were expecting. Have't they been accused of copying BTS already

    I don't think they are copy but they have similarities when it comes to strong stage presence, involvement with music production etc.

  • I don't think they are copy but they have similarities when it comes to strong stage presence, involvement with music production etc.

    Me neither. I just remember seeing people complaining about it on here.


    It'll be interesting to see what concept they debut with. If they'll go full hiphop or just kinda edgy

  • I think what hasn't been considered is the fact that Hybe considers itself a parent company and each of those groups that you are using to define "Hybe" are actually all under different labels with the exception of TXT. We have yet to see the amount of autonomy each really holds since all of those labels came under Hybe relatively recently and all the groups themselves are young. Among those listed, TXT is the most developed and they are also only group under the same actual label as BTS.


    Just points to account for. The dynamic is probably going to be different than a company who is just one label.

    Le Sserafim was touted and marketed to be a HYBE x Soumu Group from the start. Enhypen is also in a similar boat of being marketed as a HYBE x CJ ENM Group. They also have the HYBE Webtoons. And also it's important to note that Bang PD was involved directly with their creation and debut.


    I'd say that it's safe put them under the definition of a "HYBE Group" (The most important part is the HYBE x collaboration title, signifying that HYBE has direct influence with them instead of just being under a HYBE sublabel)

  • There's definitely a lot of overlaps with the group.


    I think Hybe will focus on rapping if there is a strong rapper in the group. We'll probably see it with TraineeA. As for Lesserafim, Enha and TXT they don't really have a proper rapper. And I personally prefer that they don't force a rap in the song when it's not necessary. They do have pretty weak vocals


    It's a bit early to tell, but Lesserafim seem like they could be known for their stage performances and variety. Maybe it's because I do like most of their groups and am biased, but I feel like Hybe selects really personable idols. They're easy to watch and relate to.


    They all have great choreographies and dancing. They also follow a similar pattern with their content creation. Group twitter account, making of films and company created variety shows, which BTS really popularised.

  • Agreed. I hadn't thought of the promotion but that's a good point, there's definitely similarities there as well :borahae:

  • Le Sserafim was touted and marketed to be a HYBE x Soumu Group from the start. Enhypen is also in a similar boat of being marketed as a HYBE x CJ ENM Group. They also have the HYBE Webtoons. And also it's important to note that Bang PD was involved directly with their creation and debut.


    I'd say that it's safe put them under the definition of a "HYBE Group" (The most important part is the HYBE x collaboration title, signifying that HYBE has direct influence with them instead of just being under a HYBE sublabel)

    Once again, I am only pointing out that this structure is different from your traditional Big 3 and still things we should call out since we are trying to compare it to what we've come to expect from other Big 3s. It's a fact - both Hybe being a parent company with labels under them and also that it's never safe to say "it's safe to say".

  • I've been into kpop for like six years, followed multiple rookie groups, and Enhypen was one of the most awkward ones I've seen, especially considering they're from a bigger agency who usually give their artists variety show training. Normally being from a survival show also mean that the group will be better at variety but doesn't seem to be the case with Enhypen. They've improved a lot but for example Treasure, Skz and TBZ are all better based on what I've seen

    I don't think that having survival show experience translates into having variety skills since in a survival you're in an environment full of tension and competition and in variety shows you need to be comedic and witty to entertain the audience. And obviously, the fact that most members weren't acquainted with each other and lived with each other for a few months was the cause of the awkwardness in their early stage as a group. They're pretty okay now, I love their dry humour and sarcastic remarks.

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  • I don't think that having survival show experience translates into having variety skills since in a survival you're in an environment full of tension and competition and in variety shows you need to be comedic and witty to entertain the audience. And obviously, the fact that most members weren't acquainted with each other and lived with each other for a few months was the cause of the awkwardness in their early stage as a group. They're pretty okay now, I love their dry humour and sarcastic remarks.

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    It's just my observation. IOI and Wanna One were both great at variety shows. Izone and Kep1er were/are also pretty good, especially considering the language barrier between the members. Treasure is probably the best 4th gen group at variety shows and they also debuted from a survival show.


    Being on a survival show you get used to cameras and most survival shows do contain some lighthearted variety elements so when the group makes their debut they already have some experience.


    For example there was a big difference between Nmixx and Kep1er's first Weekly Idol appearance.

  • Once again, I am only pointing out that this structure is different from your traditional Big 3 and still things we should call out since we are trying to compare it to what we've come to expect from other Big 3s. It's a fact - both Hybe being a parent company with labels under them and also that it's never safe to say "it's safe to say".

    Fair enough. I do have a feeling we'll see soon enough with how they incorporate and cement the "HYBE" brand name though once all of the groups are released in the next two years (and how HYBE groups are differentiated from HYBE sublabel groups).

  • *Me thinking of all Jay's embarrassing moments* yeah... "mysterious and elusive" :teeheek: not the two words I'd use

    Well, I was thinking of Heeseung Ig not Jay. I mean his absence in sns & calling out fans in vlives when they are crossing the line. He was not even laughing when someone said Jay is funny by doing something & Jay doesnt like it so Heeseung in his serious face said it’s not. He is kinda intimidating. I think it’s cool & hot when they are like that than be a comediane or always succumb to fan service.

  • Well, I was thinking of Heeseung Ig not Jay. I mean his absence in sns & calling out fans in vlives when they are crossing the line. He was not even laughing when someone said Jay is funny by doing something & Jay doesnt like it so Heeseung in his serious face said it’s not. He is kinda intimidating. I think it’s cool & hot when they are like that than be a comediane or always succumb to fan service.

    Idols calling out their fans, drawing a line when it makes them uncomfortable is definitely great, and it's good that it's becoming more common, but that's not really what I'm thinking of. It's possible to combine that and still be a great variety group


    It doesn't have to be a minus for you personally but I don't see them appearing on any list over the funniest groups

  • (and how HYBE groups are differentiated from HYBE sublabel groups).

    There are no groups directly under Hybe. They are all under sublabels. Hybe is the parent company of these labels. Yes, even BTS. They are under Big Hit which was divided out as the label from Hybe after the rebranding.


    All the sub labels are called Hybe labels - so yes, the labels are under Hybe and thus their groups - I was not disputing that - but it's not directly under and this should be accounted for as it is not your traditional single label like other big 3's. To that end, the Hybe labels have partnerships that don't affect the other sub labels like Enhypen is under Belift, but co managed by CJ E&M/Mnet.

  • There are no groups directly under Hybe. They are all under sublabels. Hybe is the parent company of these labels. Yes, even BTS. They are under Big Hit which was divided out as the label from Hybe after the rebranding.


    All the sub labels are called Hybe labels - so yes, the labels are under Hybe and thus their groups - I was not disputing that - but it's not directly under and this should be accounted for as it is not your traditional single label like other big 3's. To that end, the Hybe labels have partnerships that don't affect the other sub labels like Enhypen is under Belift, but co managed by CJ E&M/Mnet.

    I do have to disagree with this a bit. In my mind, I have to put this question out: What would be the point of designating Le Sserafim as a collaboration group (HYBE x Soumu), if not to indicate that HYBE is directly responsible for their management alongside their sub label, Source Music? And mind you that this is not just a designation by news articles. It's officially a collaboration group as written on the Source official website:


    SOURCE MUSIC | LE SSERAFIM
    르세라핌 공식 홈페이지 - The Official Web site for LE SSERAFIM
    sourcemusic.com


    I really do think a pattern is already starting to develop regarding the HYBE branding and it's management differences from the other large companies like SM with their sublabels. And this pattern will be even more apparent as the rest of the groups debut.

  • I do have to disagree with this a bit. In my mind, I have to put this question out: What would be the point of designating Le Sserafim as a collaboration group (HYBE x Soumu), if not to indicate that HYBE is directly responsible for their management alongside their sub label, Source Music? And mind you that this is not just a designation by news articles. It's officially a collaboration group as written on the Source official website:


    https://sourcemusic.com/artist/profile/LE%20SSERAFIM


    I really do think a pattern is already starting to develop regarding the HYBE branding and it's management differences from the other large companies like SM with their sublabels. And this pattern will be even more apparent as the rest of the groups debut.

    Ok, I'm not sure what you are getting but reading in between the lines I think you mean that you believe the subsidiaries are really going to become just shill labels with more debuts. Right or wrong, I'm not here for the theories on that sort of thing. I just present the facts as they stand right now. Some people love this though - have fun!

  • They are not awkward w/ each other. I dont understand why people say that. Jay & Heeseung know each other for more than 6yrs now, SH i think more than 4yrs w/ Jay & HS, and more than 3 yrs w/ JW. 4 members knw eo before i-land though JW is not closed yet with HS, Jay and SH. But the 3 are pretty tight . SH said he knows HS longer than anyone thinks. JW & HS mentioned they had lunched together during their trainee days. Heeseung is a BH staff in charge of training of new trainees including assessing their salary & skills ( after TxT was formed) before joining iland hence he is quite popular w/ other trainees . Jake , Niki & Sunoo immediately connect w/ the rest only after a few months they debut. So they are not awkward w/ eo but I think they were not comfortable yet in doing silly things in front of the camera & 5 of them are introverts. They dont do much fan service & they dont even like it when someone ask them to kiss each other. And just bec they dont do much gay fan service it doesnt mean they are not funny. I actually like their humor & im glad they dont give in much to fan service and just being real esp Heeseung & Jay. Their own variety show esp the mafia episode is so funny & u can feel their closeness .


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    I don't think that having survival show experience translates into having variety skills since in a survival you're in an environment full of tension and competition and in variety shows you need to be comedic and witty to entertain the audience. And obviously, the fact that most members weren't acquainted with each other and lived with each other for a few months was the cause of the awkwardness in their early stage as a group. They're pretty okay now, I love their dry humour and sarcastic remarks.

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  • I agree with Ves that you cannot lump all Hybe groups when they’re sublabels and just equal them to bighit groups. The only bighit groups rn are TXT and BTS hence why they’re the ones one bighit family pictures (idk if enhypen is included, might be or not). This said yeah bighit totally went another route with TXT, people expected them to have a BTS 2.0 and the only thing they took from BTS was having a hyyh storyline/fandom interaction.

  • I haven't watched iland or enha's previous content. But I don't really find their new material awkward. They do have a more laid back style compared to other groups. More subdued, very dry humour sometimes, and little fanservice. Personally I like that. It helps their variety seem more authentic. (and this isn't a diss at any other groups, in case someone thinks so).

  • Ok, I'm not sure what you are getting but reading in between the lines I think you mean that you believe the subsidiaries are really going to become just shill labels with more debuts. Right or wrong, I'm not here for the theories on that sort of thing. I just present the facts as they stand right now. Some people love this though - have fun!

    Hmm? I apologize if there's a misunderstanding. I was merely directly responding to your last message saying that "There are no groups directly under HYBE". In Le Sserafim's case, yes they are under Source Music as a sub label. But in my mind, the fact that they are officially labeled as a HYBE x Source collaboration group instead of merely a Source group is indication that that they are co-managed by HYBE and, as such, should be regarded as a group that is also directly under HYBE. I was just merely trying to see your thoughts on that perspective. Sorry if anything sounded offensive!


    (and I'm not exactly sure what a shill company is. Basically I agree with you and think that all of the sub labels are their own entities and we have yet to see how much full autonomy the younger sub labels will hold. I feel like there will be groups that are only managed by the individual labels and will be treated as such. But I feel like there will ALSO be groups labeled as "Hybe x Label" collaboration groups, indicating that they are co-managed by the parent HYBE company and will be fundamentally different in that regard )

  • Hmm? I apologize if there's a misunderstanding. I was merely directly responding to your last message saying that "There are no groups directly under HYBE". In Le Sserafim's case, yes they are under Source Music as a sub label. But in my mind, the fact that they are officially labeled as a HYBE x Source collaboration group instead of merely a Source group is indication that that they are co-managed by HYBE and, as such, should be regarded as a group that is also directly under HYBE. I was just merely trying to see your thoughts on that perspective. Sorry if anything sounded offensive!


    (and I'm not exactly sure what a shill company is. Basically I agree with you and think that all of the sub labels are their own entities and we have yet to see how much full autonomy the younger sub labels will hold. I feel like there will be groups that are only managed by the individual labels and will be treated as such. But I feel like there will ALSO be groups labeled as "Hybe x Label" collaboration groups, indicating that they are co-managed by the parent HYBE company and will be fundamentally different in that regard )

    I'm not offended and now its my turn to preface this with "no offense". To be honest, I just don't find speculating about the best way to generalize groups under a company to be a fun or rewarding pass time. I'm not a big fan of stereotypes. I actually only entered this thread to add some factual information I felt was missing from OP. So the direction this has gone down asking me to speculate what "Hybe x" means is a bit more than I bargained for.


    In the end, I don't care who manages who beyond that group getting the support they need to succeed. Just factually right now, none of the groups are directly under Hybe on paper. Might that be just a technicality? Maybe, but I don't really care for the reason I stated before. If they prove to be crap, I might get more involved.


    As for Le Serafim since you believe they are directly under Hybe, I'm not that worried about them. Though knetz have been chomping at the group quite a bit, so far it seems to have had little effect - despite what knetz and our resident trash gossip correspondent would have us believe. I am hoping the same is true for BTS cause it looks like Korea was ready knight them one day, then screaming off with their heads the next. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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