Why is Sunmi never mentioned when it comes to idols who have input in their work?

Quote from wsoet

But this then begs the question: why aren't they considered idols?

I guess what I'm struggling with is, what exactly is the distinction between an idol singer and a non-idol singer?

For example, is IU an idol singer? I've heard people say both yes and no. In fact, in this recent thread, IU herself was quoted as being critical of the whole idol/non-idol dichotomy.

It is a vague vague world of K-pop, nobody has any definitions for many of the terms.

Is K-pop a genre or an industry (like Hollywood)? : I lean towards industry.

What makes an 'idol'? - groups/solo? Trainee system/direct or TV recruits? Visual performance oriented vs. Vocal-Aural oriented?

Increasingly I am thinking, that excessive focus on 'fan-service' is what makes an idol, since idols in generic sense needs worshippers. Idols are not just selling their creative output, but actually putting their made-up life itself for consumption.

Yes, these are not clear-cut definitions, but overlapping, But still.

IU is a good example to explore this. Never mind her own opinions.

Because she went through the typical idol trainee mode for an year with Loen, she is an idol.

But that she did not organize and capitalize on the fandom for almost 10 years, she is not an idol

Because she releases MVs for many of her songs, telling a visual story, many times with dance elements, she is an idol.

Maybe "Dancing-singers" should be considered idols.

It is all a perception thing, why somebody is considered an idol and somebody is not.

Why isn't Busker Busker considered a Boy group? - Well they did not go through the trainee system and again aren't much dance/MV oriented.

Sunmi was a trainee, a group member and does dance music, music to be seen as much as it is heard. So she is an idol.

But anyway.

Quote from wsoet

So according to Lexicon, this is Woobin:

I think you mean Yubin:

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OH CRAP I meant Yoobin or Yubin yes. Not WOObin.

She did get a lot of credit when she broke through as a solo artist. Then when she decreased in popularity, people didn't talk about her creative output as much.

To be appreciated for lyrics, it is necessary to do ballad like songs.

K-pop in general is obsessed with "bops", dance music and cares very little for the lyrics.

After all the most successful song of recent times has lyrics like "ding dong.. King Kong".

All sorts of onomatopoeic garbage gets to be hits, as long as the music and then dance is good.

Well.. It is not just k-pop, most popular music nowadays care less and less about lyrics.

So unless the artist achieves a reputation for lyrical profoundness like IU, their lyric writing is not going to be noticed.

Rappers are better off, in that sense.

It is not just Sunmi, KOMCA has many idols on the list, but only a few get noticed for their lyrical abilities.

Quote from bbgc

It is a vague vague world of K-pop, nobody has any definitions for many of the terms.

Is K-pop a genre or an industry (like Hollywood)? : I lean towards industry.

What makes an 'idol'? - groups/solo? Trainee system/direct or TV recruits? Visual performance oriented vs. Vocal-Aural oriented?

Increasingly I am thinking, that excessive focus on 'fan-service' is what makes an idol, since idols in generic sense needs worshippers. Idols are not just selling their creative output, but actually putting their made-up life itself for consumption.

Yes, these are not clear-cut definitions, but overlapping, But still.

IU is a good example to explore this. Never mind her own opinions.

Because she went through the typical idol trainee mode for an year with Loen, she is an idol.

But that she did not organize and capitalize on the fandom for almost 10 years, she is not an idol

Because she releases MVs for many of her songs, telling a visual story, many times with dance elements, she is an idol.

Maybe "Dancing-singers" should be considered idols.

It is all a perception thing, why somebody is considered an idol and somebody is not.

Why isn't Busker Busker considered a Boy group? - Well they did not go through the trainee system and again aren't much dance/MV oriented.

Sunmi was a trainee, a group member and does dance music, music to be seen as much as it is heard. So she is an idol.

But anyway.

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Yeah, I think that's about right. It seems like there could be almost a "checklist" (e.g. ☑️ dance focus, ☑️ trainee system, ☑️ visual MVs, etc.) to determine if a particular artist should be considered idol or non-idol. But then again, I don't find the distinction all that useful.

Also, I do like the point you made about fan service, and that K-pop could be considered more of an industry than a genre of music.