What's the end goal for JYPE pushing Twice west?

Quote from tenfour

dizzcity ,

I think it's a mistake to ask for suggestions of specific and direct actions when the criticism is about the broad-strokes strategy as a whole. That broad strategy is what dictates everything else, after all.

If Stan's belief about JYPE's strategy is correct, then besides the self-serving attempt at using Twice as leverage into the western market (which... I don't buy that because JYPE has always had the biggest western connections out of the Big 3), they have at least identified the need to expand Twice's market. And I think that's correct. I don't think they should be playing to the same dwindling crowd. However I don't think targeting across geographic lines is the answer.

Aside: I don't agree that JYPE's strategy is to target the west. I frankly don't know what their strategy is besides chasing whatever trend is popular at the moment. They seem utterly rudderless. If you can find the common artistic throughline or commercial intent behind the progression of More & More->I Can't Stop Me->Alcohol-Free, then I'd love to hear it, but it seems to me that these are just totally random songs that target different audiences to varying degrees of success.

But that's irrelevant, right? If we agree that expanding the audience is the goal but aiming westerward isn't the solution, then what is?

It's going to take a lot of words to explain, so I'm going to save that for the next post.

TLDR:

• They need to target the broader music audience outside of k-pop partly by promoting on shows with an older demographic but also by releasing songs that are far from the k-pop "idol dance music" template.
• Solo members need to release dramatically differing music with collaborations outside of the k-pop bubble, Japanese members should have more activities in Japanese media, Tzuyu should model more.
• They need to shock the public with a song that screams, "You don't know Twice" all at once. Just rip the cute bandaid off instead of being half-in-half out.

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What makes you think this? Outside of JYP's earlier foray into the scene I don't think I've seen anything in the last few years that would insinuate JYPE have had the better connections out west in recent years. Maybe once upon time yes.

Or if they did there was no demand for it hence they just sat on it.

Quote from tenfour

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Demographics

K-pop is transient. There is a common criticism levelled against agencies that they intentionally leave their older artists out to dry in favour of newer ones. But this is based on the expected cycle: Red Velvet were not a replacement for SNSD, and fans of SNSD were not expected to follow them. Fans of SNSD were expected to leave k-pop entirely. The industry assumption is that k-pop is a fad that people go through and grow out of. Everything operates under this assumption. It's not entirely wrong. The average super engaged k-pop fan is very very young. Mathew Mcconaughey might remark that time keeps going on but the fans stay the same age.

Twice as of the end of 2019 are about to enter their fifth year. It is expected that the people that got into them aroundabout Cheer Up will be growing out of The Phase.

If Twice (or its individual members) are to have any longevity, they need to transcend the cycle. Which means they must transcend the k-pop scene and specifically the typically young k-pop audience.

For me they've just got complacent. Twice's popularity was easy to manage when everything they did would hit no.1 and set new records physically. It put Div 3 in this state of comfort where they never needed to think outside the box for the group, musically and promotion wise. A part of me thinks they thought switching concepts was going to be an easy thing but didn't realise how ingrained Twice's image was.

Their lack of attempt to sell the new Twice makes no sense otherwise.

Image/Identity

A very large part of Twice's success was their cohesive image and identity. Their songs were all different sonically but they all had the same core of sheer euphoric joy, along with a healthy dose of humour. Twice were a burst of happiness, energy and colour. They didn't take themselves seriously.

So they provided great escapism. I think this is part of why they've been so successful in the east, where young people are put under tremendous pressure that must weigh heavy on them. And where older people have crushing working leaves. Twice was the ultimate reprieve from that.

But this image came crashing down hard.

Mina's hiatus pierced the illusion that Twice had built up: They were subject to the same crushing pressure as everyone else. The happiness was a lie. It wasn't just the one thing. There was Jeongyeon crying on vlive because of the stress of all the promotions. There was Jihyo losing her cool with dipshit fans and telling them what for.

There isn't any going back from this point, right? Reality has intruded on the Twice Fantasy Land. You can't keep it out. But it does mean that Twice cannot keep doing what they have been doing. It would ring hollow.

So, what to do?

This is a point I've mentioned before as well (the facade being broken) - Twice's brand and image was so fixed and pretty much fully dependent on what music the group did (as they did nothing outside of the group really) that it was always going to be impossible to keep up.

Your point about east Asia as well - I'd add a big component of girl groups popularity in SK (as we've seen with Brave Girls) and that's the military. Multiple famous celebrities that served around 2016-2019 have come out and said you can't escape Twice in the military. These are young guys that essentially get forced to go to the military and the happy nature of some kpop gg's is massive for them.

Solo activities

Mina is on hiatus. As JYPE, you also know that Jeongyeon is reaching the end of her tether (after all, JYPE group members undergo monthly psychological assessment, right?). Besides of which, clearly the reason Mina has had to go on hiatus is partly because Twice have been worked to the fucking bone.

So this is the change that is needed: Allow more significant individual activities and put the group on the backburner for a period of around a year. This allows members to rest and regain a healthy life balance. But it also furthers the goal of expanding Twice's market.

Take Jihyo. Give her a digital single. A cover of a Korean classic that will showcase her vocals. But will also endear her further to the boomer market. Something like Joy's Hello or whatever. That wheelhouse.

Chaeyoung can write and compose a song of her own. I'd imagine it'd be alt-rnb or something. But whatever she likes. It might be ideal if she could feature an established rapper or something. In the music video, have her tattoos actually visible.

You've now released two songs with vastly different target audiences that can be folded into the Twice mothership while also showcasing the talents of the members themselves. If Twice were to release these same songs as a group, their direction and image would be confused, but utilising individual members, you can create a sort of plurality to their image. Further, Twice gain respect and credibility as artists and performers, which is vital in attracting that older audience.

And so it goes:

Try and get Momo a spot as a judge or mentor in a dance-focused show, OR send her to Japan for the same. I'd even try to negotiate with the AKB empire to create a show in which Momo and the J-idols learn from each other or some shit idk. I think sending the J-members to Japanese shows in general should be a priority.

Send Dahyun and Nayeon to comedy shows. They have their version of SNL in Korea, right? But whatever.

Dahyun could also release a piano ballad. With her playing the piano.

Tzuyu should bag higher profile modelling gigs and commercials.

Etc.

They would actually have time to focus on this stuff because they're not recording and promoting multiple full group releases throughout the year or appearing in Time to Twice or whatever.

Not every member would get something. But that's okay. No-one is releasing full-fat physical albums. All of this is happening under the Twice umbrella and would be partly dictated by what the members actually want to do. It's a matter of giving them the resources to fulfil those ambitions. They deserve that after the work they put in to build Twice.

This would culminate with an album near the end of 2020. That album would be similar to BTS' Wings, featuring solos and subunits experimenting with different sounds along with a minority of OT9 group songs. Every song, even the title track, would be written by the members themselves. JYPE would want to heavily advertise this fact. Again: Credibility.

So what would the title track sound like?

Well, if Twice lost their old identity, what's their new one? It's hard to discern, right?

There is one common thread I can find, though: Love Foolish->Make Me Go->Conversation->Good At Love.

These songs are all dark, slow, groovy, sexy and slightly menacing. They don't sound anything like any current trend, either in Korea or the west.

It's the exact opposite thing from Twice of old. Instead of slowly transitioning their sound, a better method would just be shock and awe. Release something like that, with a suitably dark and sexy video, and just stun people. Enough to get all the Korean news outlets writing about just what the fuck this new Twice song is. This will guarantee you a top-of-the-charts realtime placement. I have no idea what the longevity would be. Maybe the song would drop like a stone after the initial fuss. But at least you now have data of where the future of Twice is or isn't. You did it in an experimental year that was about broadening the concept of Twice. If you need to retreat you can do it.

Bonus: By establishing Twice as a girlgroup that is driven by the creative impulses of its members, and by releasing a song like the above, you've also catered to the western market with a unique angle. Instead of just being, "Dua Lipa, but, like, manufactured".

Bonus 2: You've now established Twice members as solo artists, and by playing to their strengths and giving them agency in their activities, you've set them up for success where it matters (in Korea and Japan) in a post-Twice future should it ever come to that. Hell, they might even stay with JYPE because you've made shit actually happen for them. Wouldn't that be nice.

I agree with all of this and this is essentially what SNSD did with the release of The Boys. They took a year off from Korean group releases (a year, in their prime) but kept themselves in the public, then came back with a totally different image which had everyone talking.

Don't get me wrong, the circumstances of JYPE/SM are night and day that Twice wouldn't have been able to do a year off Korean group releases, but I feel they had to either sell the new Twice to the public (they didn't do that), or just shock them (didn't do that either). Twice don't have an identity anymore.

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This is a very good post and I've added in bold some additional thoughts (I find the new AKP hard to navigate when it comes to dissecting posts)

Quote from tenfour

Connections last a very long time imo.

As late as 2016, when Conan wanted to meme his way into a k-pop song, it was JYP that he went with.

Unlike all the other agencies, JYPE existed as an entity within the USA once upon a time, JYP worked inside the western pop industry, and even outside of music, he dealt with executives at Nickelodeon. Old powerful white people live forever, they're going to remember this dude. And they know he plays by their rules (unlike HYBE which is a literal threat and competitor to their hegemony).

I don't want to say that Wonder Girls failed, because I think that's a bullshit narrative that ignores the fact that they (along with Rain, another JYP artist) were massively more successful overseas than any other k-pop group in history. They were the first k-pop group that most people outside of Korea had he-

Well, that's besides the point. The "failure" or the bad timing, whatever, made JYPE gunshy about the west even with the foundation that they had established. The inclusion of Japanese members in Twice is a very transparent indication of their new international target. Which has culminated in NiziU.

But the western foundation is still there, and hearing his talk from way back, I always assumed that the end goal was to create a group within the USA, composed of Americans, probably multi-ethnic.

I genuinely think that whatever "push" Twice has in the west is more as a result of Republic wanting some slice of the international k-pop pie than anything else. They ARE the third biggest group internationally no matter how unlikely that seems. I don't think it was on purpose, I don't think JYPE did anything to help it happen. The Feels feels like a Republic project to me. And JYPE said "yes" because they don't have any better ideas.

Like, even from the beginning, it's hard for me to imagine JYPE were searching for a label in the USA. I think they were approached.

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JYP speaks English and is definitely the more well known for his song-writing/producing then any of the other faces of the major labels. Teddy has always been there but has only become more of the face since Yang Hyun-suk stepped away.

I just think - if they had the connections you think they do, why is Twice's western promo as poor as it has been? The same with all JYPE groups. How has he not managed to grab anything "big" so to speak for his groups in recent years when kpop is more popular than ever in the west? SM have been doing collabs with western artists for years such as Snoop Dogg and John Legend, with groups signed on western labels. YG have musical and non-musical connections, have had acts going to Coachella since 2016, partnerships with Live Nation etc.

If JYPE have the best connections then they've had nothing to show from it for years in an era when some level of western success is more attainable than ever. Logically that just makes no sense to me. All their groups haven't even got decent distribution yet.