DISCUSSION: Should your career be destroyed over a school bullying incident?

  • Disclaimer: This isn't entirely just about Soojin's departure from (G)I-DLE. I wanna make this thread to discuss more in general regarding school bullying and how it affect idol's careers. Take note that this is about school bullying, and not bullying when you are an adult, or bullying within groups those will be saved for a different thread (if I make one). This is also not to discuss the truth about specific school bullying incidents.


    I'ma present two sides to this to give a general idea on what are the points people I think would bring up discussing each side, and of course you guys can add in points as well to aid the discussion.


    Yes: It IS FAIR that school bullying destroys the idols careers

    • School bullying if serious, can result in a lot of psychological trauma for the victim. Even if those victims grow up, those trauma may stay with them forever
    • Everyone perceive trauma differently, some may not find it much and get over it but other may take a much longer time to get over those trauma. Those trauma can even be dragged on to adulthood
    • In SK, suicide rates among teens are very high, and a lot of it is due to school bullying. School bullying is a serious issue especially in SK and hence those incidents cannot be taken lightly
    • A lot may argue "why do they take so long to out the perpetrators", and it may be because they do not dare face them when they were younger, and only got the courage to stand up for themselves when they are older
    • Some may say "but we don't see adults going after their bullies in real life when they grow up, what makes idols so special?" It is more to the fact that the victims might have already gotten over it, but are pissed that those bullies became famous, and it is very unfair to them that a person who have made them suffered through childhood is now a public figure


    No: It is NOT FAIR that school bullying destroys idols careers

    • What happened in school when they were kids, may or may not be representative of who they are now. People change overtime and it is unfair to latch on to something people did in the past especially when they were young that will affect the livelihood of themselves and their families when they are older
    • A lot of school bullying happen at a very young age whereby kids are just being kids and they don't know better. If during their teenage years (15-16 ++ of age) they grow up to be a better person which is not like what they were when they were kids (10 - 13 years of age), we shouldn't harp on their past mistakes for eternity
    • A lot of these incidents could be handled a lot better if schools have a better system in place to prevent school bullying at a young at to even happen in the first place
    • Those victims did not find a problem in the first place when they were celebrities or when those idols debut, and now they are trying to destroy careers that idols built over the years? It's unfair and honestly it just seem like they are out for revenge as they are jealous of their success.
    • A lot of these bullying incidents are anonymous and they can destroy idol's careers even if the victim's identity isn't know. This isn't fair to the idols who have to suffer the blunt force of all the rumors



    I probably missed out quite a number of points as well so y'all can chip in if you want.


    As flopppy likes to say it, DISCUSS


  • This is true but depends of the accusations and how they handle right now the scandal, they should sincerely apologize, if they changed they should have done it before debut or when they matured but at least doing it now

  • School bullying should be dealt with at school what are authorities and adults in these children’s lives doing?


    When children bully esp in young ages like primary and middle school both the bully and the one being bullied are representative of adults who failed them.


    South Korea should take a long hard look at its severe bullying problem in schools and not depend on public ceremony. Ok these idols got caught and now what. What about the hundreds of other bullies who do other jobs? What about them?


    It may seem like justice when idols loose their careers but ultimately it is not solving any problem.

  • If you still act like a bully, yes, it should. If you take your time to apologize to those you hurt, show remorse, show that you learned from your mistakes, it's okay to forgive and move on.

    For those fans out there attacking the G-IDLE girls victim, you are part of the reason she was kicked out, congrats!

  • Yes. That is 100% fair. You reap what you sow. How is it fair for bullies liive theif dreams and victims to live with all the mental problems and dreams stolen. Maybe some victims wanted to become idols too but because of mental damage they recerved they could reach it and now they works as a cashier at 7/11... how is it fair for bully idols to live their dreams with someone else stolen dreams. Its fair that their careers are taken away and they have to work at 7/11 too.


    Besides wheter idols want or not, they are role models. Kpops main audience is teens, pre-teens etc. What kind of message that gives u? You bully someone and destroy their life, now you are rewarded to live your dream. Having your career taken away is such a storng soft power against bullying

  • What if you really changed as a person and many other people have seen that, but because of the different ways victims perceive trauma, the victim has still not forgiven you and can't seek closure.


    Would it be fair for the idol this way?

  • to be honest bullying can leave trauma that can last for a lifetime and can change a person's whole personality.. some poople lose confidence for life and some develop insecurities which they sometimes never overcome


    you can be a different person from what you were 10 years ago but what if there are victims who suffered because of you all those years till now and are still suffering?


    its way more serious than just a petty quarrel and tbh those who never went through it will never even begin to understand how traumatizing it is...



    Do I think it's something to lose your career over? No, because that just increases the chances of ruining another life


    But Do I feel bad or have any sympathy for people who lost their careers this way? No, not even a bit.. If you do bad, it will bite you back someday in life, and if thats how it came back to you, well then that is how it was supposed to happen to you ig... I dont have sympathy for you right now, just like you didnt for your victims back then..


    People need to stop passing bullying as teenage drama / young minds whatever shit, cause bullies always know what they are doing... even a 5-year-old kid knows that its wrong to treat others badly...


    bullies know they are hurting someone but still continue to do it.. and that shit is disgusting no matter what your age is.. and tbh what goes around comes around some way or the other...

  • Imo, it shouldn't, and it would never have happened in the US or other Western countries.


    For multiple reasons it shouldn't:

    - people change, you shouldn't be sentenced based on the things you did many years ago as a kid or in puberty


    - a fight, having words or a conflict is NOT the same as bullying: but suddenly every fight you had, every conflict, bad thing you said about someone else, every disagreement on high school runs the risk of becoming weaponized and used against you as a bullying accusation when you're a celeb and someone from your high school class has a grudge against you, or wants a score to settle


    - school bullying is something to address, but starting witch hunts is NOT the way to do it, and this becomes basically ANOTHER form of bullying, but now by angry online mobs and netizens eager/excited/hungry to see celebs and idols bleed - this in the same line how witch hunts happened in medieval times, where selective targets who weren't deemed 'proper' enough got punished for it with the excuse of them being evil 'witches' and warlocks

    'No more shall man have wings to bear him to paradise. Henceforth, he shall walk.'


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    Edited 2 times, last by FoReveries ().

  • my opinion, depending the actual victims whether they forgive or not. That's the most important part since it's them who experienced it.


    Ex:

    If the victims said that their career as a celebrity should be over then should be it. It's means that the bullying was more severe that what is brought up in the light.


    If the victims forgave the perpetrator then they deserved second chance (case closed)

  • Depends how severe was the bullying and when it happened. In general, you can't hold someone accountable for what they have done in middle school and I say this as someone who has been bullied since primary school all the way through high school.

  • That is true. I don't like the idea of apologizing just to get it over with. It has to come from genuine acknowledgement of fault.


    As for making the apology before debut, yes, it would be ideal, but some people might not get the chance to do it or they might not have the courage to do it.

    i'm sorry but i don't buy that the bully do not have the courage to apologize, if they had the courage to bully the victim, they should have the courage to apologize too.


    I agree with genuine acknowledgement of fault but i find hard to believe they have changed for the better if they don't even try to make things right for their past mistakes, mistakes which affected somebody else's life.

  • Depends on your career. If youre a beloved and looked up to public figure who's behaviour people will follow than yes. The damage you've caused to someones life cannot be given back, the misery and anxiety youve caused cannot be taken back.


    The spotlight and love of millions of people isnt a place for a bully.

  • It's fair to me. You reap what you sow.

    If you're a school bully yourself, you shouldn't have chosen celebrity as a career to begin with and the damage could have been lessen. But no, you still want to be famous and appear on TV/CFs for the victims to see your face so that they could remember all the horrible things you did in the past. Then you can't blame anyone for the consequences.

  • I really don't care what happens to the idol if the bullying accusation is true. That decision is upto the company. I care more about the victim.

  • I have never bullied someone so I think it‘s kinda difficult for me to judge someone elses actions. I do believe people can/do change over time and I’m certain everybody does mistakes once in a while. However in my opinion people who bully others tend to have some type of narcissistic character traits, so I‘m skeptical whether those type of people should be promoted as a public role model, not to mention being idolized.


    Nevertheless we need to raise the question whether entertainment companies should check their trainees past before accepting them? Or should they just rely on their trainees narratives?


    Personally I believe it would be a huge effort to investigate each trainees personal background. Most companies wouldn‘t be interested in that einher, I guess.

  • If the bullying was severe enough and the victim suffered tremendous psychological damage from it then possibly. Some people can be that traumatised over things that happened in their early life that it can last a lifetime. It shouldn’t destroy a person’s life or livelihood but invariably can and does unfortunately.

  • Ex:

    If the victims said that their career as a celebrity should be over then should be it. It's means that the bullying was more severe that what is brought up in the light.

    That makes no sense. Being a victim doesn't earn you the right to dispose of your bully's life as you see fit. A victim can turn into as much of a bully as their former bully was. And two wrongs don't make a right. Being a victim doesn't make you wiser and fairer, on the contrary. That's why in courtrooms they don't put the victim and their family among the jury, that would be preposterous.



    It's too complicated to debate about school bullying in general as these words encompass a broad range of actions and situations. The word hakpok (school violence) used in Korea describes anything from verbal abuse to physical assault. Because of this, a few insults thrown in a hallway become as severe as a beating and racketting in the restroom. That's kinda absurd imo.


    If anything, it's not the former bullies that should be hunted years (decades even?) after the events, but the institutions that failed to protect the kids and let the bullying phenomenon go wild and unchecked in Korean schools. Kids are not supposed to police themselves, adults are. So where were the adults? What were they doing?

  • is it fair that school bully destroy the childhood of people just to make themselves feel better in their sad life ? NO


    so i don't see why they have the right to destroy the life of people with their actions

    but people can't destroy their career for things they did themselves

    if they don't want to have their career ruin maybe next time they would think twice because bullying someone

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  • There are so many factors to take into account imo; each case is different, so i don't think you can just agree or disagree with your question.


    The only things i can say for every case is that it's kind of insane how fast an accusation turns into a witch hunt without any extra info & if you have a past as a bully (when you were >15y give or take), why pursue a carreer as an idol??


    not saying idols can't make mistakes or that you can be an ex-bully when you are an actor/office worker/... , but idols are known for their very clean image.

  • they should just implement some good system in school

    if there really still is a problem of bullying then just mark those bullies

    and make sure that kids ain't afraid of revealing that someone hurt them

    and what's more important is that parents should shut up

    there shouldn't be situation when teacher would call them to school and parents will cause a mess and scene

    because their beloved boo boo for 101% ain't a bully :eyes:

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  • I think the important thing here is to define what is bullying because honestly half the idols are accused of is not even bullying, i think people shouldn't be so sensitive now days, when i was in school i was insulted some times people hif my bagpack a few times, it would be dumb if i said i was bullied and now have severe trauma, having an argument with a class mate or they calling you names a few times isn't bullying and shouldn't create trauma, trauma should only be possible if you were bullied everyday for a longish period of time, so i call BS how koreans get trauma for the most stupid things

  • If it was another career I would say no, but we're talking about idols here. Their whole career is based upon people's opinions. If they couldn't show remorse while bullying the other person, why should public show remorse either? Honestly, bullies don't deserve love from millions of people.


    Also, most of these idols aren't even that old. It's probably been at max 5 years since they left high school. Unless they went through a sudden psychological trauma, I doubt they would change so soon.


    I could've still given the benefit of doubt, if they apologized the moment they were exposed but acting like you don't remember anything says a lot about how much you've changed.

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  • I've worked with teenagers and I have to say most bullying cases are not as clear cut as people like to portray them on TV. A bully can very well be the victim of bullying themself from another person and so on, should all of them get punished then? What we did in bullying cases was work with all the people involved without pointing fingers to ensure they understood where the line was and where they needed to understand that their idea of "not a big deal" might be different from someone else's. It's been far more productive than just throwing accusations at everyone. I've seen kids be completely ignorant that what they were doing was bullying, only "teasing", I've seen kids say that being shoved once in gym class led to massive psychological trauma, etc. People's perceptions vary so much.


    What would actually matter is schools and society creating an environment where people are more unlikely to bully, but looking at these online witch hunts, nobody is interested in that. Just read the insults and hatred, how is that any different? why do you expect kids not to mimic the behaviour they see from adults all around them and online.

  • hmmm... i see where both are coming from my friend however that always depends on the circumstances


    as always i am a consequensialist that is i look at the consequences of the action not the action per se...


    if the victim wants revenge sure i can understand and go for it... if the victim wants mediation/resolution sure i can understand and go for it


    there's never a one size fits all so i would say both options are correct...it's really up to the individual to decide and not on us the bystander to judge their actions and how they conduct themselves...

  • I grew up with Buddhism and Buddha taught about redemption and forgiveness. So, yes, I believe the bully should be given the second chance. Yet, due to the traumatic nature of bullying, it needs to be dealt with seriously and the example that bullying will follow with harsh consequence has to be set. Is there the the middle ground between this? In my religion, the culprit may take religious retreat and donate to reflect.

  • Yea of course. It obviously depends on the bullying but yes if you bully enough where people fell the need for speaking up about it years later you should lose your career. Let me address the few push backs here….


    1)what if they changed?


    Irrelevant to what they did in the past. If a person abused their spouse for a time but stopped after divorce and years later the victim came after them and the abuser said they changed would that mean anything to what was already done to the victim? No.


    2) the “just kids” argument. Bullying is not something all kids just do. Yes kids can be jerks but kids are not all bully’s and bullying isn’t some phase all kids go through. You don’t get to excuse your shit behavior as “just kids” when most other kids managed to go through school not being a bully


    3) Schools fault as well for not handling the situation better. I agree but this is irrelevant to the question. The schools definitely should definitely improve their reaction to this stuff but that says nothing to excuse the bully.


    4) not fair to idols as their faces on in the media while the accusers are anonymous. This is usually the case and is good. Having their name blasted everywhere would discourage victims from coming forward as the rabid fans would immediately attack them and it could threaten they lived or sense of security. These people are private and have not started public careers essentially forfeiting some rights to their private lives. Idols willingly sign up to be public figures and that means both being famous and making money if they get big and dealing with the consequences of maybe past actions. Is it always 100% fair? No but life isn’t always fair and usually the stars accused of this stuff are big enough where there is some weight to this.


    So again if credible bullying allegations are leveled against you yes it should end your entertainment career. I don’t care if you changed, or that you were just a kid. I hope you have a better career in a more humble job.

  • First of all your past does not define your present.


    Secondly this is between the victim and the bully. They should meet up and the bully should apologize! The only one who decides if a bully can be forgiven or not is the victim, not an angry mob.


    Last but not least, how is justice served when a celebrity gets their career destroyed, even though they ain’t bullying anyone anymore? Does it solve Koreans tragic school bullying problem?

    What does it say when a bunch of Kids find pleasure in bullying others?

    What are authorities doing about it ?

    SK needs to take a deeper look into the cause of their school bullying problem and teenagers taking their lives. It seems like these kids are overlooked and their problems not seen. If something like this happens, it shows a failure in the system from both authorities and parents.


    Don’t treat the symptoms, get rid of the sickness!

  • I just don't like this online culture of attacking people for what they did as children. Just seems a lot like petty and vengeful misplaced anger.

    Yes.


    I view school bullying different from adult bullying.

    A lot of these kids are the result of failed parenting or neglect. Them bullying is often a scream for attention and validation. It often stops once they get older and realize what they were doing is bad.

    And people who get bullied ain’t getting the support they needed from school authorities.

    From what I read, school kids in Korea are treated as a collective group rather than individuals. So a lot gets overlooked or ignored with that “Not my Kid, not my problem” mentality.

  • That's what I'm underline it's MY OWN OPINION :wellr:

    It doesn't mean that their life is over. smh

    It's just mean that I approve the victim's wish that the perpetrator doesn't deserved to be celebrity anymore. They still has enough money, they can pursue other work sectors. Please, don't compare them with crime or other heavy offense that deserved a sentences or ultimately ended up in jail.


    I'm just seeing this from Victim's POV, how much they hurting inside everytime they seeing their former perpetrators in the television or shows. There're must be the reason why they can't forgive them, one reason is the bullying cases are more severe than what's brought up in the light. Stop this defense mechanism by blaming the institutions or adults, the one who's at fault is themselves who did it.


    Is your default reaction to find somebody or something else to blame for your problems?

    "If the Institution or adults protect them , this bullying cases won't happen.. bla bla bla"

    yeah I know, it's easier

  • Is your default reaction to find somebody or something else to blame for your problems?

    "If the Institution or adults protect them , this bullying cases won't happen.. bla bla bla"

    yeah I know, it's easier

    No, because I'm a grown man, not a child. That's the difference. That's what changes everything. Children are children. If children were reponsible of their own actions, they wouldn't be considered children, they would be considered adults. Maybe you're not an adult yet, that's why you can't see the difference.

  • Countries and industries are different. Typically, in other industries it wouldn't destroy a person's career. It depends on severity though; anything involving stuff like rape or sexual assault would almost never get a free pass. Unless the bullying behavior isn't recent or continues to happen beyond school life, it shouldn't have a major career impact.


    Everybody makes mistakes. The damage is done. If the former perpitrator can help the victim heal by apologizing, that could be helpful and mature. Apologizing might not ever be enough, but that is a part of the process for the perpitrator to absolve bad karma.


    Bullies aren't born, they are made. Some people hurt others because they have been hurt and there are people with psychological dispositions who victimize others because they are so disconnected they don't have a capacity or desire to understand how their actions affect other people.


    I think it is important for agencies to screen out any trainees and employees with certain psychological dispositions, as a part of a background check, because they have the potential to create a lot of victims and enable other perpitrators.

    Edited once, last by DMV2DMZ ().

  • No, because I'm a grown man, not a child. That's the difference. That's what changes everything. Children are children. If children were reponsible of their own actions, they wouldn't be considered children, they would be considered adults. Maybe you're not an adult yet, that's why you can't see the difference.

    Also, what age you consider them as children?

    In fact, ages 10-13 already included in early adolescence which mean transition between childhood to adulthood therefore they should be responsible for their own actions. This is not me making up stories.


    Look up the bullies cases, what ages they did the bullying .

  • I just read an intellectual post :pepe-toast:

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