it's been months since they disappear
they didn't post anything, appeared nowhere,
their Agencies still didn't make any statement
there are any news about the investigations ????
Any update about Soojin and Hyunjin ???
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Hyunjin's investigation ended with the conclusion that it wasn't school violence (the accusers and everyone who was questioned remembered things differently) but he did hurt people so he went on a hiatus.
There were no further statements to be made.
He might come back soon as the comeback is possibly in July, and small signs point towards that. There was also a part about taking legal action against defamation in a statement JYPE released as an update on the ongoing legal action against stalkers.
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I fully anticipate Hyunjin to return in a couple of months when Stray Kids has an actual comeback.
Soojin's situation has gone on much longer in the public and with the rest of the group doing their own thing, I feel like it may be way later in the year before they make a comeback. I feel like I saw something about Soojin not being fully edited out of the special sing they did for the Universe app and people getting mad.
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I fully anticipate Hyunjin to return in a couple of months when Stray Kids has an actual comeback.
Soojin's situation has gone on much longer in the public and with the rest of the group doing their own thing, I feel like it may be way later in the year before they make a comeback. I feel like I saw something about Soojin not being fully edited out of the special sing they did for the Universe app and people getting mad.
I agree with Hyunjin coming back soon and most likely when Stray Kids comes back.
Soojin is different. Her bullying case has been going on and we keep hearing from either victims suing harasser and so on. I don't think she will come back this year if Cube is really smart they would remove her from the group. Knetz want her gone for good and not comeback ever again.
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Hyunjin apologised and jyp did a great job with statements.. he will be back soon...
Soojin didn't apologise, asked shin ye to make a statement and went MIA when the actress actually did it...
Not to say how allegations against soojin were way more serious than hyunjin and while in hyunjin's case the whole class was shitty, that wasn't the same for her...
so yeah she is pretty much screwed
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Hyunjin's investigation ended with the conclusion that it wasn't school violence (the accusers and everyone who was questioned remembered things differently) but he did hurt people so he went on a hiatus.
There were no further statements to be made.
He might come back soon as the comeback is possibly in July, and small signs point towards that. There was also a part about taking legal action against defamation in a statement JYPE released as an update on the ongoing legal action against stalkers.
so Hyunjin wasn't on Kingdom??
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Hyunjin will most likely to return and anyway i can't see straykids without hyunjin, i mean he wasn't the first teenager to fight with his classmates so i really don't understand this jealous people... , as for soojin i don't know much but i heard that it's pretty bad, if someone could tell me a little bit, couse if people actually thinking that at some point she won't be in G-idle then i really wonder what she did
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From what I understood, several people who pretended online to be her classmates were exposed to be fake and no classmates at all, deleted their accounts or got prosecuted.
What remains was the case with that 1 classmate and her older sibling, for which a legal case is now running.
Basically it's the older sibling who accused Soojin when all the Metoo style bullying uproar went on in South Korea, and from what is known from the case, Soojin and her classmate had a fight and a bad falling out, and then there was all kinda stuff that Soojin got accused of by the older sibling incl bullying by others that Soojin allegedly instigated, that was either very indirect and unproven or that had nothing to do at all with the classmate but was basically character defamation of Soojin (eg. what did Soojin's alleged drinking or smoking have anything to do with that classmate's alleged bullying?).
The older sibling who was the main instigator of the bullying accusations was also caught trashtalking and mocking Soojin in a karaoke session.
This was all from a few months back, no idea what updates there have been the past months.
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Because there is a lawsuit neither side will participate in any kind of general statements because it might prejudice their case in court. In the west because libel laws are actually very week especially against public personas you do see this but in Korea with defamation laws being very strict you probably won't. There is actually not just a monetary fine but also jail time.
The known facts are the sister did try and ruin Soojin's career. No question on that. Now the question is did Soojin and the accuser try and work things out before hand before it went public. If they did then it works in the accusers interest. If the sister of Seo Shinae did not try and resolve things but just started attacking in a public mater then it works in Soojins favor.
Second since it was accused on a public format Seo Shinae's sister must show that what happened actually happened. Either through messages eye witness accounts (not Seo Shinae's) or verified messages from the time period talking about the event or events. It must also show that it was more or less one sided with Soojin being the agressor. If those determinations are not met that Soojin and Cube will win the case. But if text messages dating back to then emerge AND eye witness accounts that saw the exchanges take place with Soojin being the bully then Cube will lose the case.
If Cube wins the case Soojin will be back, if Cube loses the case then Soojin will be out and Seo Shinaes career is over and her sister will be in jail and fined, if the case is dismissed by the court (they couldn't find enough info either way) then most likely Soojin will also be out.
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Because there is a lawsuit neither side will participate in any kind of general statements because it might prejudice their case in court. In the west because libel laws are actually very week especially against public personas you do see this but in Korea with defamation laws being very strict you probably won't. There is actually not just a monetary fine but also jail time.
The known facts are the sister did try and ruin Soojin's career. No question on that. Now the question is did Soojin and the accuser try and work things out before hand before it went public. If they did then it works in the accusers interest. If the sister of Seo Shinae did not try and resolve things but just started attacking in a public mater then it works in Soojins favor.
Second since it was accused on a public format Seo Shinae's sister must show that what happened actually happened. Either through messages eye witness accounts (not Seo Shinae's) or verified messages from the time period talking about the event or events. It must also show that it was more or less one sided with Soojin being the agressor. If those determinations are not met that Soojin and Cube will win the case. But if text messages dating back to then emerge AND eye witness accounts that saw the exchanges take place with Soojin being the bully then Cube will lose the case.
If Cube wins the case Soojin will be back, if Cube loses the case then Soojin will be out and Seo Shinaes career is over and her sister will be in jail and fined, if the case is dismissed by the court (they couldn't find enough info either way) then most likely Soojin will also be out.
I think you got some things mixed up. There is no Seo Shinae's sister in the story. Seo Shinae is not even involved in the legal case.
The people Cube are sueing right now are a former classmate of Soojin and her bigger sister who spoke on her behalf the entire time. Supposedly the sisters' side has collected evidence and testimonies from other people, either witnesses and victims. Cube also collected evidence and witness accounts that there was no wrongdoing. We'll see who prevails at the end.
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as shitty as what soojin did i want gidle to be ot6, and i believe she learnt from her actions. but it doesnt look like they're gonna stay together, what with all of em opening ig accounts, and like no news of them. but should they split, they would all have successful solo careers.
as for hyunjin, the whole thing is so messy, literally nothing was proved, and i want him to comeback alreadyyyyyyyyy
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as shitty as what soojin did i want gidle to be ot6, and i believe she learnt from her actions. but it doesnt look like they're gonna stay together, what with all of em opening ig accounts, and like no news of them. but should they split, they would all have successful solo careers.
as for hyunjin, the whole thing is so messy, literally nothing was proved, and i want him to comeback alreadyyyyyyyyy
Just curious, why do you think that only the accusations towards Hyunjin weren't proven, and the ones towards Soojin are true?
As far as I know, nothing that the older sister has accused Soojin of was proven, and the only thing that Soojin has confirmed was that both her classmate and former friend had a fight and a falling out after which both went their separate ways, and Soojin has in that same statement denied all the other stuff that she was accused of in regards to bullying.
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That's the million dollar question but no one ever has an answer for it. For most people, what sealed the deal was Seo Shinae's involvement in the controversy. She is/was a popular actress, why would she lie, am I right? Which is funny since in other circumstances, fans have no problems shitting on actresses for being manipulative and deceitful (see Seo Yeji recently).
So it all comes down to appearance based prejudice. Seo Shinae was a child actress, very cute, very polite and well-mannered whereas Soojin had this mysterious image because of how secretive she is, because of her sensual dancing. She even has tattoos! What a punk! So for a lot of people, based on this and this only, she has to be the lying bitch.
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Hyunjin apologised and jyp did a great job with statements.. he will be back soon...
Soojin didn't apologise, asked shin ye to make a statement and went MIA when the actress actually did it...
Not to say how allegations against soojin were way more serious than hyunjin and while in hyunjin's case the whole class was shitty, that wasn't the same for her...
so yeah she is pretty much screwed
Imo, JYP didn't do a very good job with their statements. Surprisingly, Pledis handled the bullying accusations well, but probably because their PR Team had to face a wayyy worse shit show with Baekho a couple of years back. They're trained and ready to go.
As for Soojin, Cube and DSP can join hands with how badly they handled bullying accusations lol. It'll be tough for Soojin to come back. Unless there's some major reversal, even the court favoring her will do nothing to slow down the hate against her because the legal system has always been biased towards those in power.
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Imo, JYP didn't do a very good job with their statements. Surprisingly, Pledis handled the bullying accusations well, but probably because their PR Team had to face a wayyy worse shit show with Baekho a couple of years back. They're trained and ready to go.
As for Soojin, Cube and DSP can join hands with how badly they handled bullying accusations lol. It'll be tough for Soojin to come back. Unless there's some major reversal, even the court favoring her will do nothing to slow down the hate against her because the legal system has always been biased towards those in power.
I was comparing jyp's statements with cube though lol, they atleast made hyunjin apologise which was the best move....
cube did horrible but no one beats DSP they singlehandedly destroyed April with those two clarifications released..
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Again, the issue everybody fails to address is: should someone apologize for something they didn't do?
If you consider a person should apologize for something they're accused of, it means you consider this person is guilty by default. Which is a very backwards way of thinking.
Soojin apologized for the inappropriate behavior she had in middle school (smoking, questionable outfits) but she refused to apologize for things she claimed she didn't do. So unless she's a proven liar (which she is not at this point), it's a very understandable stance that should be respected. I wouldn't apologize for made up stories that someone would try to pin on me either.
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Again, the issue everybody fails to address is: should someone apologize for something they didn't do?
If you consider a person should apologize for something they're accused of, it means you consider this person is guilty by default. Which is a very backwards way of thinking.
Soojin apologized for the inappropriate behavior she had in middle school (smoking, questionable outfits) but she refused to apologize for things she claimed she didn't do. So unless she's a proven liar (which she is not at this point), it's a very understandable stance that should be respected. I wouldn't apologize for made up stories that someone would try to pin on me either.
Soojin's statement was meh until she asked Seo Shinae to speak up. That just reeked of absolute entitlement and confidence that Seo Shinae will not say anything.
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Soojin's statement was meh until she asked Seo Shinae to speak up. That just reeked of absolute entitlement and confidence that Seo Shinae will not say anything.
I would have done the same thing if I knew I didn't do anything wrong. If someone unfairly shades me in front of a crowd, for sure I'm gonna ask them to either state clearly what's their deal or just shut up.
If Soojin were in the wrong, her best interest would have been not to poke the bear and get into more trouble . It could have been a pure act of arrogance had she been an isolated individual with no management to tell her what she should and shouldn't say. But with Cube behind her all along, I see no reason why they would have done such a bold move if they had any doubts about Soojin's version.
Maybe I'll be proven wrong at some point but for now I'm pretty confident that some people's desperation to throw Soojin to the wolves only comes from prior prejudice against her, or against anyone proud enough to stand for themselves.
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I think you got some things mixed up. There is no Seo Shinae's sister in the story. Seo Shinae is not even involved in the legal case.
The people Cube are sueing right now are a former classmate of Soojin and her bigger sister who spoke on her behalf the entire time. Supposedly the sisters' side has collected evidence and testimonies from other people, either witnesses and victims. Cube also collected evidence and witness accounts that there was no wrongdoing. We'll see who prevails at the end.
thanks for the correction.
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I would have done the same thing if I knew I didn't do anything wrong. If someone unfairly shades me in front of a crowd, for sure I'm gonna ask them to either state clearly what's their deal or just shut up.
If Soojin were in the wrong, her best interest would have been not to poke the bear and get into more trouble . It could have been a pure act of arrogance had she been an isolated individual with no management to tell her what she should and shouldn't say. But with Cube behind her all along, I see no reason why they would have done such a bold move if they had any doubts about Soojin's version.
Maybe I'll be proven wrong at some point but for now I'm pretty confident that some people's desperation to throw Soojin to the wolves only comes from prior prejudice against her, or against anyone proud enough to stand for themselves.
This is basically how I see it too.
Why would Soojin deny it if there was some truth to the bullying accusations? The much easier and safer path would be to apologize and be done with it.
Unless she wasn't guilty of it in her eyes, and her public statement seems to point in that direction: she takes accountability for the stuff that she did 'wrong' when she was in mid school - she was basically a rebel child - but she denies the bullying stuff that she has no recollection of.
I don't think she expected Seo Shinae to accuse her like that.
But the legal case isn't about Seo Shinae but about the accusations of the older sister and her classmate; will Seo Shinae be involved in that case as a character witness?
The way I see it, the older sister was making use of the public uproar around bullying that was happening in SK, combined with Seo Shinae blaming Soojin for bad school memories. But we'll see how it goes when the case gets resolved.
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But the legal case isn't about Seo Shinae but about the accusations of the older sister and her classmate; will Seo Shinae be involved in that case as a character witness?
The way I see it, the older sister was making use of the public uproar around bullying that was happening in SK, combined with Seo Shinae blaming Soojin for bad school memories. But we'll see how it goes when the case gets resolved.
No, for sure Seo Shinae won't be involved, not even as a witness. I don't think so at least. It's something we would have heard of; unless it happens some time later but I have my doubts. Seo Shinae has very little interest in getting more involved than she already did. The public opinion is already on her side; plus, she already stated she wanted to move on (which is quite convenient if you ask me).
All we can hope for is that the investigation brings some light onto the whole situation, including the stories around Seo Shinae and her relationship (or lack thereof) with Soojin. For now it's not even sure anything conclusive will come out of this case.
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No, for sure Seo Shinae won't be involved, not even as a witness. I don't think so at least. It's something we would have heard of; unless it happens some time later but I have my doubts. Seo Shinae has very little interest in getting more involved than she already did. The public opinion is already on her side; plus, she already stated she wanted to move on (which is quite convenient if you ask me).
All we can hope for is that the investigation brings some light onto the whole situation, including the stories around Seo Shinae and her relationship (or lack thereof) with Soojin. For now it's not even sure anything conclusive will come out of this case.
I tried to read up and check if more is known of the case.
Hmm. I'm slowly getting the feeling that both the older sister as well as Seo Shinae are trying to settle old grudges from high school, in a somewhat vindictive manner. After Seo Shinae's accusation of Soojin (who wasn't even her classmate), Soojin published the following statement:
"I neither bullied nor talked behind Seo's back. My management company contacted her agency, but it did not respond. I demand Seo clarify her stance on the issue."
Seems Seo Shinae is blaming Soojin for every single time school kids insulted her or talked negatively about her, even if it wasn't Soojin or even when Soojin wasn't a part (anymore) of the group that did so.
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Does Cube Entertainment have to Prove the Bullying Accusers were Lying in the Korean Legal System?
or do the Bullying Accusers have to Prove that their Accusations have Merit?
and in either case, is the Evidentiary standard "Beyond any Reasonable Doubt" or the "Preponderance of the Evidence" (or some other Legal standard not common in the West that I am unaware of)
The Idea of Powerful Companies Suing Individuals for these kinds of things is scary to me, In Civil Court in the West the vast majority of Civil cases have to be settled out of Court due to how quickly Legal fees can mount, this doesn't inherently mean Justice is served in these cases
I couldn't care less if Soojin didn't Act and Behave like an Angel in her Schooling days, but the Idea of Suing people into Financial Ruin and potentially destroying Innocent Lives in order to preserve this "Image of Purity" of whatever it is, Is so beyond disgusting to me it could put me off all Cube acts forever (if it is just a way to silence people)
Reminds me of reading about how Lance Armstrong (famous Athlete) ruined multiple people's lives Suing them into Financial Ruin for accusing him of taking PED's (which he was) and forcing them to Publicly apologize to him and claim they were lying all because he had more Money and Power than they did and they had to settle out of Court, I couldn't care less that he cheated but I consider him honestly Evil for destroying innocent people's lives over it
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Seems Seo Shinae is blaming Soojin for every single time school kids insulted her or talked negatively about her, even if it wasn't Soojin or even when Soojin wasn't a part (anymore) of the group that did so.
Yes, it sounds like it to me too. It's clear as a child actress, she received a lot of attention from her schoolmates back then. And this attention can be either good or bad. Being a celebrity as a child is both a blessing and a curse. Now, to pin that on one individual who she admitted to have never spoken with? That's weird. Especially when it doesn't match at all other people's accounts.
During the first days of the controversy, there were a few testimonies that were posted on Pann and Twitter and which took Soojin's defense. Three of them seemed to be key to me.
1/ Soojin's alleged closest friend at the time (I think I even managed to get her full name by cross referencing a couple of accounts: Kim Dabin). Claims to be friend with Soojin since elementary school up until high school graduation. Claims that Soojin was not the kind of person to mess with anyone. Claims that Soojin was working hard to achieve her dream of becoming a singer. Remembers the time when Seo Shinae got transferred into their school; that she was quite popular but also disliked by many kids because of her celebrity status.
2/ Another (alleged) former classmate of Soojin in 8th and 9th grades. Confirms Kim Dabin and Soojin were best friends and quiet students who were always together (even when going to the bathroom); they always sticked together. Denounced many inconsistences among alleged victims' accusations.
3/ Another (alleged) former classmate of Soojin from 7th grade. Denies that Soojin made the younger sister an outcast; never saw her as an outcast to begin with as she seemed to get along well with her classmates. Claims that a lot of kids used to make stories about Soojin and even belittled her for dreaming of becoming a singer. Used to feel bad about Soojin because of the bad image she suffered and how people were always talking about her.
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The Idea of Powerful Companies Suing Individuals for these kinds of things is scary to me, In Civil Court in the West the vast majority of Civil cases have to be settled out of Court due to how quickly Legal fees can mount, this doesn't inherently mean Justice is served in these cases
I couldn't care less if Soojin didn't Act and Behave like an Angel in her Schooling days, but the Idea of Suing people into Financial Ruin and potentially destroying Innocent Lives in order to preserve this "Image of Purity" of whatever it is, Is so beyond disgusting to me it could put me off all Cube acts forever (if it is just a way to silence people)
Sorry, but Cube really tried to resolve this peacefully. It was in no one's interest that this middle school stuff blows up into a legal case. The sisters were invited into Cube's offices and offered to meet Soojin so they can have a discussion. But it was not enough as it seems the older sister was hellbent on destroying Soojin's reputation. She even had a livestream after coming back from Cube where she talked nonsense like "I should have snapped Soojin's neck (back when she was a middle school kid)".
So the older sister had it coming really. She was the first one to hire and send a legal representant in her stead. If anything, whatever happened with Soojin back then, the older sister probably caused more harm to her younger sister than Soojin.
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I couldn't care less if Soojin didn't Act and Behave like an Angel in her Schooling days, but the Idea of Suing people into Financial Ruin and potentially destroying Innocent Lives in order to preserve this "Image of Purity" of whatever it is, Is so beyond disgusting to me it could put me off all Cube acts forever (if it is just a way to silence people)
But what if Soojin didn't do it? She might not have been an angel when she was a kid at mid school, but what if she never did any of the bullying stuff she's been accused of?
Should she have to apologize for something she didn't do?
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But what if Soojin didn't do it? She might not have been an angel when she was a kid at mid school, but what if she never did any of the bullying stuff she's been accused of?
Should she have to apologize for something she didn't do?
You didn't read my comment or you misunderstood something
No she shouldn't have to apologize for something she didn't do
I don't even think She should have to apologize for something she did do
I couldn't care less about Kids being cruel to each other if none of it rises to the level of being a Criminal Act, and it is weird to me that so many do care, it is some form of projection at play I assume
What I do care about is the idea of a Powerful Rich Company using the Legal System to destroy people's lives and forcing them to apologize and recant something that could be truthful just because they have more money to sink into Civil Court
Of course if these accusations are truly just lies than yes it would be a Just thing for all of that to happen, but because of the Huge power imbalance involved I could never be 100% sure even with a settlement that involves a Public Apology and recanting the claims of Bullying (because that is exactly what Lance Armstrong forced his accusers to do in that example I cited - some of them had to wait almost 20 Years for the Real Truth to come out)
and all for what? a weird attempt to preserve Soojin's schoolgirl image of all things?
Just state the accusations aren't true and move on
Sorry, but Cube really tried to resolve this peacefully. It was in no one's interest that this middle school stuff blows up into a legal case. The sisters were invited into Cube's offices and offered to meet Soojin so they can have a discussion. But it was not enough as it seems the older sister was hellbent on destroying Soojin's reputation. She even had a livestream after coming back from Cube where she talked nonsense like "I should have snapped Soojin's neck (back when she was a middle school kid)".
So the older sister had it coming really. She was the first one to hire and send a legal representant in her stead. If anything, whatever happened with Soojin back then, the older sister probably caused more harm to her younger sister than Soojin.
Simply having Legal Representation isn't nearly the same as Filing a Civil Lawsuit for Defamation where the damages could be interpreted to be Hundreds of Thousands of dollars (possibly allot more)
Nobody should care about her accusations, it is all He said She said noise at this time, unless she files some kind of Lawsuit against Cube or Soojin than sure Gloves are off if you know your innocent.
Just state that this is all Lies and if she really stands by her claims you welcome her to file that Civil lawsuit and prove her claims against Soojin in Court, she won't and or can't do this if they are Lies, probably can't even if they are True
Meaning no Court case where the result could be doubted anyway because of the Power imbalance, and you give the appearance of welcoming the pursuit of Truth through the highest of levels (legal system) without it being interpreted as some kind of threat
Don't be the Big Powerful Company potentially Suing to Silence their Critics
In a more reasonable World you wouldn't even have to address petty nonsense like teenage bullying years ago and just laugh it off
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I couldn't care less about Kids being cruel to each other if none of it rises to the level of being a Criminal Act, and it is weird to me that so many do care, it is some form of projection at play I assume
I think that this is what's really the case: a lot of knetizens project their own experiences, traumas and fears onto the situation, far far more than people do in the West, and instantly stand behind the (alleged) victim, especially if the alleged perpetrator is a girl idol or celeb who're most vulnerable to witch hunts.
I noticed it first with T-ARA, when even in the early days it was clear that there was a lot more to it and that a lot of the 'evidence' gathered by netizens was nonsensical stuff taken out of context. But most netizens - and ifans - didn't seem to care and were eager to join the T-ARA witch hunts.
And after that I saw it happen a lot of times in the same way: idols were deemed guilty until proven innocent - and even after that, often still seen as guilty - and both netizens and ifans didn't mind forming up in online lynch mobs.
As for Soojin and the accusations: sure, she could say it wasn't true and move on - but in the meantime, her entire reputation is in tatters, and she's already condemned by the public and haunted by it for the rest of her career, for something she might not even have done, or not to that extent.
Stuff like that is treated far harsher in South Korea than for example in the US, where bullying rumors would never have such uproar as it is in SK.
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In a more reasonable World you wouldn't even have to address petty nonsense like teenage bullying years ago and just laugh it off
look I'm all for ignoring this kind of stuff but it's Korea we're talking in case you hadn't noticed. And in Korea this shit just don't go unnoticed. Have these accusations been harmless then I would have agreed with you. But they were not. It was a straight up character assassination. And there's a point when if you don't stand for yourself and take legal measures, you look even more guilty.
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Just curious, why do you think that only the accusations towards Hyunjin weren't proven, and the ones towards Soojin are true?
As far as I know, nothing that the older sister has accused Soojin of was proven, and the only thing that Soojin has confirmed was that both her classmate and former friend had a fight and a falling out after which both went their separate ways, and Soojin has in that same statement denied all the other stuff that she was accused of in regards to bullying.
maybe because more people hated on soojin or just because shes a girl
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look I'm all for ignoring this kind of stuff but it's Korea we're talking in case you hadn't noticed. And in Korea this shit just don't go unnoticed. Have these accusations been harmless then I would have agreed with you. But they were not. It was a straight up character assassination. And there's a point when if you don't stand for yourself and take legal measures, you look even more guilty.
Sort of a 'damned if you do, damned if you don't' situation.
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maybe because more people hated on soojin or just because shes a girl
Or maybe because the scale of the cases are completely different.
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Or maybe because the scale of the cases are completely different.
true
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