After 3 years there's still no 4th leader

  • 4th gen debuted in 2018

    and While 3rd gen already had some clear leader at the start of the gen, 4th gen seems to be much more competitive


    at the start of 3rd gen Exo was the clear leader among BG and GG competition was between Gfriend and Twice


    4th gen seems harder


    For example


    G-idle show great potential during their first two title, with Latata and Hann but their popularity took a big hit with Senorita who couldn't meet the expectations after this their focus was on Ifans and koreans kind of forget about them until they do Queendom who gave them a big exposure again among the GP and the release of Hwaa prove that they were more popular than ever, but their popularity seems to have take a hit after soojin controversy, and the members are already going into their own solo project after just 3 years.


    Itzy seems like they were the big contestant for 4th leader after the big success of Dalla dalla, but icy made them lose hypes and since their big debut with Dalla dalla, none of their song could reach this level of success, they are for example struggling to enter top 10 since Melon reform , the GP attention on the group doesn't seem as strong than it was during their debut by looking at the chart but their fanbase seems to grow very quick, especially among Ifans considering that they chart pretty high on Spotify global 200, and their physical sales etc....


    Aespa after some controversial and mixed reactions to their debut, their first Comeback seems to surprise everybody by breaking records on the chart for 4th gen GG, the real question is will they be able to maintain this type of success with every comeback , or it was just a one hit thing ? also the lack of Physical sales make it hard to determine clearly how strong is their fanbase but the fact that they were able to be the fastest GG to chart on spotify global 200 and that the fact that they are the 3rd GG behind BP and Twice to debut at #2 on itunes worlwide charts, make it seems like their fanbase seems pretty decent. But one of their biggest weakness might be their concept too, will they be able to make people like it, or people will easily get bored of this weird concept ?


    Now the Darkhorse that nobody saw coming, StayC, they took everyone by surprise with their first debut album sales who almost reach 100K and the fact that their songs is almost a 2 months years old song and is still rising on the chart and outcharting song release more recently, they prove to everybody that they had a lot of potential and shouldn't be forget when talking about 4th gen leader

    the real question is will they be able to build a stronger fanbase and also get more recognition among ifans to be become the uncontestable 4th gen leader ? and will BEP will be able with one of his song to help StayC reach the level of Success that Twice did with his song ?




    How long do you think we need to wait to see a real 4th gen leader emerge among 4th gen GG ? and who do you think it might be ?

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  • until hybengg arrives. Their hype will skyrocket me thinks.


    i don't know

    Hybe isn't use to GG ? can they understand what GG fans want ? will they be able to have the skills to impress us ?

    also it seems like everybody is expecting BHNGG without really expecting the groups, usually GG stan talk a lot about GG predebut they are expecting but there's not a lot of Talk about HybeNGG an YGNGG in the kpop forums it seems

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  • Pink Blood ftw :pepe-clown-gear:

    Pinkblood is a tiktok account for fans


    i guess pink is because it's the official color of SM

    and blood it's because " SM is in the blood of their fans "


    too bad the logo was cute, sad that it was use for something as dumb than a tiktok account to repost tiktok from fans

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  • i don't know

    Hybe isn't use to GG ? can they understand what GG fans want ? will they be able to have the skills to impress us ?

    also it seems like everybody is expecting BHNGG without really expecting the groups, usually GG stan talk a lot about GG predebut they are expecting but there's not a lot of Talk about HybeNGG an YGNGG in the kpop forums it seems

    I mean what are people supposed to talk about?

    Hybe is hiding them very well, nobody has any clue about the members.

  • :whatb:



    I think it's because the influence of 3rd gen groups is still too large.


    Situation now is kinda like with 2.5 gen groups, 2011-2013, where groups like Girl's Day, AOA and Sistar started to rise, but couldn't quite escape the long shadow that the dominant 2nd gen groups still threw.


    EXO was the first group that rose above and beyond that 2nd gen dominance, but for girl groups it lasted till 2016 before the 3rd gen top groups emerged.


    I don't see BTS and BP leave anytime soon, so the 4th gen top groups are in a similar situation as Girl's Day, AOA and Sistar were when groups like SNSD, BB and 2NE1 still dominated.

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    Edited once, last by FoReveries ().

  • so itzy isnt 4th gen leader based off of a single chart in which they still got top 10 and pulled 1M unique listeners for a song people bitched about including koreans???


    just ignoring their japanese stats, spotify stats, YT stats, physical sales, music show wins,

  • I'm going to keep this 100, gidle is out. I'm sorry it's true and it's not just because of the scandal, I think eventually they would recover, I mean knets have got over similar things before, but the fact they are already going solo and another group is going to debut from their company, it's literally another Cube CLC tragedy. It's very sad because they were the first 4th gen group to chart in top 10 and showed a lot of promise.

    :peperain:


    Itzy are probably in the lead, but now aespa has passed them in terms of digitals and match them with MV views, as black mamba is literally going to pass Not shy any day from now, I would say itzy situation is very similar to red velvets situation in the past. Red velvet were said to be the leading group of 3rd gen, especially as they already had that huge fandom before the other groups got to debut. RV debuted in 2014 and by ice cream cake era they were huge, only some time after twice and blackpink debuted, did people start to question red velvet as the leading group. I'm not saying itzy debuted too early, but now majority of 4th gen groups are coming now and itzy has already been around for almost 3 years and haven't actually had a national hit yet, so it is very questionable. It doesn't help that aespa and stayc and eventually more groups will be charting the same or higher now.

    :peperain:


    And the biggest change prior to 2020 and now is that views no longer effect charting anymore. Prior to this popular groups could chart really high as views played a part, but now (at least in melOn 24) it's no longer connected to MV views, so it's solely based on the general publics like of the song. I think this should have be done a long time ago, cause now everyone has equal chance, big companies and small companies, now going forward we will see what south Korea actually likes

    :pepepizza:

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  • but the fact they are already going solo and another group is going to debut from their company, it's literally another Cube CLC tragedy. It's very sad because they were the first 4th gen group to chart in top 10 and showed a lot of promise.

    It's literally nothing like CLC. (G)I-DLE are nowhere near where CLC stood when their baby sister group debuted. So the fact Lightsum is about to debut is irrelevant. And the fact some members are going solo shows only that they CAN go solo. It's a surprise to no one that Soyeon has been sitting on unreleased material for forever. The members go solo now because the hiatus caused by the Soojin incident opened a window for it. So they use it.

    I think it's way too early to go all doom and gloom on (G)I-DLE. Fans are playing the waiting game, they have no choice, but when (G)I-DLE comes back for good the hype and anticipation will be real.


    Now as for being the leaders of 4th gen or whatever, as a Nevie I don't care really. (G)I-DLE are the leaders of the self producing gen and it's not gonna change in the foreseeable future.

  • do u even know how to count? itzy just celebrated their 2nd year.. and when we say national hit Dalla dalla says hello??? Just because aespa mvs has more mv views (because of 60 percent ads) that doesnt mean they surpassed itzy already. Itzy dance practice alone has 50m views and 1m likes they are the only groups along with BP has that record.

  • It's literally nothing like CLC. (G)I-DLE are nowhere near where CLC stood when their baby sister group debuted. So the fact Lightsum is about to debut is irrelevant. And the fact some members are going solo shows only that they CAN go solo. It's a surprise to no one that Soyeon has been sitting on unreleased material for forever. The members go solo now because the hiatus caused by the Soojin incident opened a window for it. So they use it.

    I think it's way too early to go all doom and gloom on (G)I-DLE. Fans are playing the waiting game, they have no choice, but when (G)I-DLE comes back for good the hype and anticipation will be real.


    Now as for being the leaders of 4th gen or whatever, as a Nevie I don't care really. (G)I-DLE are the leaders of the self producing gen and it's not gonna change in the foreseeable future.

    Aww it's cute you love gidle that much, you're usually a weird hater that lurks in aespa threads dishing out whatever shade you can given any opportunity, I never knew you actually LIKED any group, interesting

    :pepepizza:

    Welpz only time will tell with gidle, but from what's being shown now, the general public will not put their scandal to rest and exactly my point, they are going solo, then the company debuts another group, I know I'm not reaching when I say it's looking like a group replace group situation

    :pepepizza:

    I guess we have to sit and wait. On another note Lightsum is picking up a lot of hype pre debut, so they will be a group cube pushes as much as they can, especially now majority 4th gen groups are debuting now. I'm interested to see where gidles goes from this point.

    :pepe-back-away:

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  • I think we need to see how gidle full comeback will do first to determine where they're standing.

    Itzy is the strongest right now due to their experience, proven charting and album-selling power. Aespa and Stayc is rising so fast and i think Stayc album also sell well.

    Aespa has highest charting right now but we also need to see if it's consistent or not. Selling power wise, with how popular the girls are in China, i have no doubt they will sell really well too.

  • well itzy has shitty songs composed by jyp which korean fans hated the most but still manage to be on top 10? and that's onthe 4th gen leader.

  • do u even know how to count? itzy just celebrated their 2nd year.. and when we say national hit Dalla dalla says hello??? Just because aespa mvs has more mv views (because of 60 percent ads) that doesnt mean they surpassed itzy already. Itzy dance practice alone has 50m views and 1m likes they are the only groups along with BP has that record.

    Dalla Dalla was not a national hit, it's the closest in 4th gen, but it was not a national hit and Itzy has passed their second year therefore they'll be approaching their 3rd year, once you've passed a year you'll always be approaching the next? is common sense not common?

    :pepepizza:

    Also, do not even quote ads because jyp uses as much ads soooo your argument is silly. Dalla Dalla was before the reform charts, the old Melon chart isn't hard to chart, aespa has topped 2 and I'm pretty sure most 4th gen groups have placed 1 as well? melOn 24 hits is the chart to look at as it's not based on any MV views what so ever, so it's all general publics interest and what's popping in Korea.


    Now for the last thing you said, I never said itzy had a small fanbase, so I don't know why you're quoting, I mean for a group approaching 3 years they should have a big fanbase. My point was itzy has had time, such as gidle, enough to increase over the years, but with that, they still have not been able to achieve a national hit (recently they broke into top10 on melOn, even faster than twice) but aespa has charted higher and by the looks of it stayc will also be passing that

    :pepe-back-away:

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  • Aww it's cute you love gidle that much, you're usually a weird hater that lurks in aespa threads dishing out whatever shade you can given any opportunity, I never knew you actually LIKED any group, interesting

    lol maybe if people didn't look at harmless trolling as hate or "shade", they wouldn't be so mistaken. :pepepizza:


    Yes I've been critical of aespa, of their last comeback mostly, and I think people are way too hasty at labelling the next sensation or whatever. I like to make a judgement based on more than a handful of songs so I'm surprised others can so quickly jump on the newer bandwagon. That's why I'm poking fun at them and it's even funnier when they get legit mad over nothing. :S Like guys, it's okay, it's all fair game! As long as we don't attack groups and idols on a personal level, it's harmless. You can check, I never said anything bad about the members.

  • Dallax2 has 950 million digital points, chart reform on melon made 0 difference for that


    and did WANNABE just fucking drink bleach and die? it literally is outpacing all 4th gens songs on spot/YT to this day while being over a year old, it gets like 600k/views a day



    2 year old group has a hit in both year being active, yall just ignoring everything and soloing in on melon for some dumbass reason

  • lol maybe if people didn't look at harmless trolling as hate or "shade", they wouldn't be so mistaken. :pepepizza:


    Yes I've been critical of aespa, of their last comeback mostly, and I think people are way too hasty at labelling the next sensation or whatever. I like to make a judgement based on more than a handful of songs so I'm surprised others can so quickly jump on the newer bandwagon. That's why I'm poking fun at them and it's even funnier when they get legit mad over nothing. :S Like guys, it's okay, it's all fair game! As long as we don't attack groups and idols on a personal level, it's harmless. You can check, I never said anything bad about the members.

    But you're taking all the hype for the girls out on the girls? I dislike you, I'm not going to shade gidle any chance I get? gidle didn't annoy me, you did etc (an example) It's one thing to troll for fun, but when it's a constant attack it begins to look like a personal issue.

    :peperain:

    So far I have not seen one positive statement from you about aespa. Considering you reply to almost every aespa thread, not one positive thing has been said. Aespa is a 6 month rookie group, if you are annoyed with fans being annoying then troll fans, but you don't troll fans, you're trolling aespa. From their debut, to awards, to record breaking achievements, to normal achievements, not one positive thing, not even a neutral thing, it's all been quite negative tbh

    :pepepizza:

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    Edited once, last by evo-evolution ().

  • And yet exo blew up in 2013 but ggs didn't take over till 2016. Your point is moot. Give 4th gen some time.

    This is the best explanation. I would consider longevity here. with that ITZY and G(I)-DLE has a large record to prove themselves. While aespa is just a 6 month rookie without any physical sales to actually have complete parameters. HYBENGG AND YGNGG, we dont even know when they will debut.

  • That doesn't make a national hit, you don't just decide something is a national hit because it's viral or popular, there's actually a criteria?


    Overall impact in sales and streams / digital index / cumulative ULs. It doesnt matter if it was a viral song that quickly became irrlevant or it was a song loved by GP in long term, it can be compared by cumulative numbers.


    Impact - the only relevant measure is Gallup, everything else is biased

    Longevity - at least charting on yearly charts on 2 years and ranking on Gallup after release year, everything else is not noteworthy longevity

    :peperain:

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  • Dalla Dalla was not a national hit, it's the closest in 4th gen, but it was not a national hit and Itzy has passed their second year therefore they'll be approaching their 3rd year, once you've passed a year you'll always be approaching the next? is common sense not common?

    :pepepizza:

    Also, do not even quote ads because jyp uses as much ads soooo your argument is silly. Dalla Dalla was before the reform charts, the old Melon chart isn't hard to chart, aespa has topped 2 and I'm pretty sure most 4th gen groups have placed 1 as well? melOn 24 hits is the chart to look at as it's not based on any MV views what so ever, so it's all general publics interest and what's popping in Korea.


    Now for the last thing you said, I never said itzy had a small fanbase, so I don't know why you're quoting, I mean for a group approaching 3 years they should have a big fanbase. My point was itzy has had time, such as gidle, enough to increase over the years, but with that, they still have not been able to achieve a national hit (recently they broke into top10 on melOn, even faster than twice) but aespa has charted higher and by the looks of it stayc will also be passing that

    So aespa is on their second year now? lol and for common sense i think u need that more since your having hard time understanding about youtube charts and ads yesterday.. 😂


    and SM ads 24.9 in 5 days? that is less than to their so called 24hr record? well SM now is the king of ads i must say.

  • So aespa is on their second year now? lol and for common sense i think u need that more since your having hard time understanding about youtube charts and ads yesterday.. 😂

    aespa haven't even had 1 whole year omg you're so stupid, I don't know why I'm entertaining this :pepefacepalm: and nooooo everything I said was right, op even admitted it was a misunderstanding because the dates he presented were for recent dates not the whole duration of the MV releases :pepestare:

    if you want to quote with attitude make it make sense please, cause you're looking more stupid with each post :pepe-back-away:

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  • aespa haven't even had 1 whole year omg you're so stupid, I don't know why I'm entertaining this :pepefacepalm: and nooooo everything I said was right, op even admitted it was a misunderstanding because the dates he presented were for recent dates not the whole duration of the MV releases :pepestare:

    if you want to quote with attitude make it make sense please, cause you're looking more stupid with each post :pepe-back-away:

    nothing more stupid than you are yesterday... when you can't simply understand youtube chart until OP gives up on explaining to you... :peperich:

  • But you're taking all the hype for the girls out on the girls? I dislike you, I'm not going to shade gidle any chance I get? gidle didn't annoy me, you did etc (an example) It's one thing to troll for fun, but when it's a constant attack it begins to look like a personal issue.

    But it's not aespa that I'm targeting, it's the silly fans. I wouldn't mind aespa fans if they were busier talking music rather than charts, sales, digitals, streams like freakin shareholders in suits. And I extent this criticism to other fandoms. Blinks can be annoying too, Midzys can be annoying too... all the bigger fandoms basically. Now the only difference, I actually enjoy some BP and ITZY songs. They have bops and solid albums. Whereas aespa has only three songs, one and half of them being a cover/remake. So I think it's pretty barebones.

    Now if you desperatly want to hear some good things from me, I can say their MVs look good, the girls are pretty and sing well. My gripe is there's only so much they can do as performers with so few songs that I don't even like that much. But I don't hate; if their next album is great I'll vibe to it no problem, just like I vibe to ITZY's last mini even though I'm no ITZY stan.

  • nothing more stupid than you are yesterday... when you can't simply understand youtube chart

    LOOL Ok I have to work to get back too. Anywhoo to conclude everything I've been saying, itzy were the only 4th gen group close enough to reaching a national hit with DD, I personally would not count gidle (but people still can if they want) aespa and stayc are catching up, aespa need to release an album, more 4th gen girl groups debuting this year such as, Lightsum,ygngg and hngg. I think a interesting question is who will get the first national hit of 4th gen girl groups

    :pepepizza:

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  • But it's not aespa that I'm targeting, it's the silly fans. I wouldn't mind aespa fans if they were busier talking music rather than charts, sales, digitals, streams like freakin shareholders in suits. And I extent this criticism to other fandoms. Blinks can be annoying too, Midzys can be annoying too... all the bigger fandoms basically. Now the only difference, I actually enjoy some BP and ITZY songs. They have bops and solid albums. Whereas aespa has only three songs, one and half of them being a cover/remake. So I think it's pretty barebones.

    Now if you desperatly want to hear some good things from me, I can say their MVs look good, the girls are pretty and sing well. My only gripe is there's only so much they can do as performers with so few songs that I don't even like that much. But I don't hate; if their next album is great I'll vibe to it no problem, just like I vibe to ITZY's last mini even though I'm no ITZY stan.

    Well at least that's solved, I personally won't see you as a hater anymore, all I can offer for advice is if you're on the fence about a group, just watch afar and wait. It sends hater vibes when you make constant digs (obvi I'm not one to talk, but I usually make digs defending aespa, I wouldn't go out my way to constantly throw shade especially If I'm on the fence about a group, I'll just wait for more stuff, like treasure, I don't fully stan but I think they have strong potential for me to fully stan).

    :froghype:

    I think a lot of people are in your situation and it's fair considering aespa are 6 months and don't have an album yet, but they have attracting things such as the well thought out concept, the girls are very talented and super sweet

    :pepe-sad: Just anticipate the album of the year coming soon :pepe-cowboy: they have huge names producing for their album :pepe-shades:

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  • Well at least that's solved, I personally won't see you as a hater anymore, all I can offer for advice is if you're on the fence about a group, just watch afar and wait. It sends hater vibes when you make constant digs

    It's just that when I'm bored, there's a chance I involve myself in a conversation I shouldn't have. There's also the fact that sometimes fans get way over excited and hyperbolic over their faves' achievements and abilities. As a stan I try to stay honest and realistic regarding my faves abilities and talent. So when I see someone else who goes way overboard like their new fave group is *thE bEst thing EvEr Omg*, I'm just like "uh not really". ^^ It's not only MYs; not long ago there was a thread about how Yeji was the best all-rounder of 4th gen. I replied to say no she is not, even though I like her very much; she killed me with her white blazer in Wannabe! :pepe-life-support: But this kind of statement is too opinionated to make it pass for a fact. If someone says "she's my favorite" then I'm good, no problem, I won't argue.

  • It feel like it bc 3r gen is way too strong

    By their second year 3r gen ggs we're having n°1 and paks on gaon and BTS was selling million albums along with exo passing other bgs


    One year later twice started beating snsd sales, by 2018-19 BTS beat every bg digitally and by 2020 BP break record physically for any gg


    All this was done in a general sense, including all gens and that not smth 4th gen has done hence why u always see " x groups has x thing by 4gen"

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