People hate on SM groups, but their debut groups are more complete than groups of 5+ years

Quote from ripia

I'm glad SM producers are probably better

SM works with whole bunch of western producers and they buy lots of western music so maybe their music is more up to date with western pop, but HYBE also works with so many western producers,

SM likes to experiment with songs so much so for me some of their stuffs end up being mess & miss, while HYBE almost continiuously releases very quality releases since they play safer than SM. Looking at TXT & Enhypen's discography so fa. So for the music i will give it to HYBE. YG has been serving high quality music in the past and i prefer Teddy & G.D more than SM producers. But Teddy is not producing for Treasure so far the producers for Treasure are not living up to my standard i want them to produce their own staff. I have never been a big fan of JYP musical direction i only know full discography of SKZ since i stan i prefer them more than SM producers, but idk about other JYP producers.

I end up liking most SM groups because of great music full of variety... and those vocal harmonies.. I am very weak for those..

I never planned to get into aespa but I cant stop listening to their songs I guess I will end up stanning in a few months, chances will be high if they release an album soon..

Quote from jinaland

for vocals i wholeheartedly agree but for rap nah, they have completely ignored that for years

NCT has their best rappers yet but actually only Mark is great imo, also they dont have that thing that i care most which is their idols have almost zero contribution in their own music. Even JYP has 2 self producing groups SKZ, Day6 and we all know YG, well idol groups not expected to write & produce but yall see lots of groups from small companies are writing & producing their own staff and makes me think SM groups are really behind in this department tho. I cant tell about dancing & stage presence since i am not that interested in dancing and i only see stage presence from very few idol groups in kpop. But for that department i feel HYBE, YG & JYP is still ahead of SM right now imo

People used to say this during 2nd gen as a way to bash SNSD when it fact SNSD members had more credits than 2ne1 for example...

All of groups under SM (except aespa but Giselle wrote her introduction rap) have members with writting/producing/choreo credits under them, but non fans like you believe the contrary due to not enough mediaplay and the stereotype that SM doesn't have "artists but robots". For example, wayv members (2019 rookies) have done things like these

Quote from 4d-maknae

People used to say this during 2nd gen as a way to bash SNSD when it fact SNSD members had more credits than 2ne1 for example...

All of groups under SM (except aespa but Giselle wrote her introduction rap) have members with writting/producing/choreo credits under them, but non fans like you believe the contrary due to not enough mediaplay and the stereotype that SM doesn't have "artists but robots". For example, wayv members (2019 rookies) have done things like these

External Content twitter.com

Content embedded from external sources will not be displayed without your consent.

Display all external content

Through the activation of external content, you agree that personal data may be transferred to third party platforms. We have provided more information on this in our privacy policy.

External Content twitter.com

Content embedded from external sources will not be displayed without your consent.

Display all external content

Through the activation of external content, you agree that personal data may be transferred to third party platforms. We have provided more information on this in our privacy policy.

SNSD had way more songs than 2ne1, have much more members so credits gonna be more for sure, that comparison is then doesnt make sense, what makes sense is how much u contribute to your own music

and how much it is selling, lets say A group had 20 songs and they have credits on all of their 20 songs. While B group has 50 songs and credits on 30 of their songs. In this situation saying B group has more contribution is misleading just because they have more credits tho. What u have showing me is bare minimum tbh. What SM group has same amount of contribution to their music as groups like BB, Winner, IKON (YG) and SKZ, Day6 (JYP), BTS, SVT(HYBE) tho?

what a predictable turn of events

SM acts are simply the best since the beginning we been new

Quote from jinaland

for vocals i wholeheartedly agree but for rap nah, they have completely ignored that for years

NCT has their best rappers yet but actually only Mark is great imo, also they dont have that thing that i care most which is their idols have almost zero contribution in their own music. Even JYP has 2 self producing groups SKZ, Day6 and we all know YG, well idol groups not expected to write & produce but yall see lots of groups from small companies are writing & producing their own staff and makes me think SM groups are really behind in this department tho. I cant tell about dancing & stage presence since i am not that interested in dancing and i only see stage presence from very few idol groups in kpop. But for that department i feel HYBE, YG & JYP is still ahead of SM right now imo

Taeyong has released 3 billion songs on his own .....

Quote from yutazenn

Taeyong has released 3 billion songs on his own .....

i am talking about officialy produced songs for their own discography not some soundcloud staff almost every idol have that staff & so many unreleased tracks in their computer

I agree with vocals.

When it comes to overall dancing and rapping, I'd say plenty of other companies debut idols that are just as complete dance wise and far more complete/talented rap wise.

Quote from jinaland

SNSD had way more songs than 2ne1, have much more members so credits gonna be more for sure, that comparison is then doesnt make sense, what makes sense is how much u contribute to your own music

and how much it is selling, lets say A group had 20 songs and they have credits on all of their 20 songs. While B group has 50 songs and credits on 30 of their songs. In this situation saying B group has more contribution is misleading just because they have more credits tho. What u have showing me is bare minimum tbh. What SM group has same amount of contribution to their music as groups like BB, Winner, IKON (YG) and SKZ, Day6 (JYP), BTS, SVT(HYBE) tho?

I'm not so sure it's fair to compare like that.

B.I. of iKON might have complained that only 1 in 50 of his songs were accepted by YG, but YG's nothing compared to SM whose policy it is to categorically dismiss practically everything their artists come up with in songwriting and composing, at least for the first years after their debut, since SM's philosophy is that they have separate teams for producing and songwriting.

Luckily they allow their artists more the further they are in their career, up to the point that a group like Super Junior can have their own sublabel where they're responsible for practically everything, the whole process from beginning to end.

But the fact remains that SM of all companies is by far the strictest in barring their artists from contributing in songwriting and producing, especially in the early years after debut.

You don't need talented to debut under SM many of sm idols just filler that's why their group are so big. YG trainee are better than SM rappers. While Stray kid are better than any SM performers ever had.

Quote from Zenning

I'm not so sure it's fair to compare like that.

B.I. of iKON might have complained that only 1 in 50 of his songs were accepted by YG, but YG's nothing compared to SM whose policy it is to categorically dismiss practically everything their artists come up with in songwriting and composing, at least for the first years after their debut, since SM's philosophy is that they have separate teams for producing and songwriting.

Luckily they allow their artists more the further they are in their career, up to the point that a group like Super Junior can have their own sublabel where they're responsible for practically everything, the whole process from beginning to end.

But the fact remains that SM of all companies is by far the strictest in barring their artists from contributing in songwriting and producing, especially in the early years after debut.

YG groups release so few songs than any of the other acts in kpop, so lots of their stuffs are not released and left in their hard disk forever. I know SM is very strict in that. But if someone really wants to produce his/her own music i think they will prefer going to companies who let their idols write & produce their stuff rather than going to SM imo. So i dont think idols in SM are not that interested and encouraged being producers like for example groups in YG, Cube or other smaller companies. On the other side there is no way that company would waste such a talented producer in front of their eyes imo.

Quote from bprevoluntion

You don't need talented to debut under SM many of sm idols just filler that's why their group are so big. YG trainee are better than SM rappers.

I need some examples buddy cause most of SM idols are not fiiller. Plus this is an industry wide tactic, YG for instance totally has filler members.

Quote from bumble-bunny

I need some examples buddy cause most of SM idols are not fiiller. Plus this is an industry wide tactic, YG for instance totally has filler members.

which group

Quote from jinaland

which group

All of them? bp up there described filler as "without talent" so visuals. Quite a few visuals. now, whether or not this is your definition of filler is up to debate. Plus, whether or not variety, or extra skills like those count, is also up for debate.

Quote from bumble-bunny

I need some examples buddy cause most of SM idols are not fiiller. Plus this is an industry wide tactic, YG for instance totally has filler members.

Example what's Lucas winwin hendery Johnny and jaemin talented. Maybe lucas has a great posting skills, winwin can do Chinese kungfu dance like Jacky Chan,Hendary has a huge potential a great comedian, Johnny is a good translater, jaemin is decent dancers but what's his talent being handsome has nothing to do with their musicality.

SM can easily cut half of snsd and Super Junior members off because they're just fillers. Red velvet also don't need yeri.

Quote from bprevoluntion

Example what's Lucas winwin hendery Johnny and jaemin talented. Maybe lucas has a great posting skills, winwin can do Chinese kungfu dance like Jacky Chan,Hendary has a huge potential a great comedian, Johnny is a good translater, jaemin is decent dancers but what's his talent being handsome has nothing to do with their musicality.

Of course you pick the group I know nothing about

So filler to you is any talent not related to musicality? Cause kpop centers around a lot more than music. Kpop, especially groups like nct, focuses on performance and dance, so Winwin's skills are important. Entertainers like Johnny and Hendery are important for fans who need frequent connections to their groups. Which is a lot of kpop fans.

And "Handsome has nothing to do with musicality" you just described what they had that is more than handsome. Sure, flips don't write songs, but they create memorable performances that draw fans. Cause otherwise most of kpop is filler, considering you put dancers in your list.

Quote from bumble-bunny

All of them? bp up there described filler as "without talent" so visuals. Quite a few visuals. now, whether or not this is your definition of filler is up to debate. Plus, whether or not variety, or extra skills like those count, is also up for debate.

Jennie is ACE can sing, rap, dance & produce

Lisa is amazing dancer, stage presence & rapper with very unique tone

Rosie has very unique high tone vocals and she can play musical instruments

Jisoo has very unique low tone vocals it gives nice contrast to Rosie & Jennie's vocals tho

so saying them having filler member is ridiculous also they have chosen from whole bunch of super talented trainees

Quote from jinaland

Jennie is ACE can sing, rap, dance & produce

Lisa is amazing dancer, stage presence & rapper with very unique tone

Rosie has very unique high tone vocals and she can play musical instruments

Jisoo has very unique low tone vocals it gives nice contrast to Rosie & Jennie's vocals tho

so saying them having filler member is ridiculous also they have chosen from whole bunch of super talented trainees

Display More

Jisoo is more stable live than SM main/lead vocal. It's hard to he filler in small group than mega group like SM.

Yall did i just see someone say Kai and Taemin are better performers than dancers? Taemin alone has one of the best isolations in the INDUSTRY. There’s no male or female dancers that can outdance him, let’s say, on his lower body isolations. This is trippy. Taemin is one of the most well-rounded dancer in k-pop OF ALL TIME. While Kai is not as well as Taemin, he’s still a standout dancer of his generation!

If i’m gonna pick the best technical dancer in k-pop, it’d be Taemin and J-hope. Whereas my personal preference would lean in towards Kai and Jimin’s style more.