People hate on SM groups, but their debut groups are more complete than groups of 5+ years

Quote from ripia

theres more comments saying it wont end well then actual bad comments -.-

this thread was more centered at vocals than dance honestly.

then I agree with you

you should have stopped at singing

in terms of singing i definitely agree.

Quote from BlackpinkHouse

SM groups definitely have the best vocal polish. But when it comes to rap, dance/performance and song quality, i just dont see it.

SM constantly debut some of the best dancers on the industry, performance and song quality is subjetive I guess. On rap yes SM isn't YG but with NCT they have improved a lot to the point I'd say Mark or even Taeyong are very much above the average "Kpop rapper". YangYang, Sungchan, Hendery and Jeno seem to have potential as well. Mark is also one of the few idols that constantly delivers on it's rapping and he seems to be very polyvalent, and it's not like the guy appears on few songs lol.

Even Aespa's rapping/fast talking/whatever you wanna call it on their last cb of Giselle and Karina seemed good for gg standards when it comes to delivery.

i expected more drama from these thread

but i kinda agree with you. they debuted with already full of talent and they dont deserve the hate just because their under sm. i know in term of many aspect sm is not a really good company maybe they consider a really bad one, but in term of talent they extremely good at it.

That's been the SM way: find mostly talented kids, give them the best training for singing, dancing and other stuff like acting or variety in the biz et voila, they debut a group that even at less than a year old is among the most talented groups around. It's not a secret or anything, it's always how it's been

Quote from Slayurfaves

Sm have good stand ones but some might be a bit overhyped not saying they aren't good. (don't kill me ) Taemin and Kai are better performers than dancers from a technique perspective , so as performers they are really good. NCT might have better dancers overall.

according to this dance channel that analyzes idols dancing ( she actually is a professional dancer): she says that JYP groups at least for girl groups are better at dancing than SM and YG girl groups. What she meant is that there isn't a big gap between the main and lead dancers so in average their dancing skills are consistently better

For instance, Momo is the best dancer in twice but Jihyo, Sana aren't that far behind obviously they aren't as good as Momo technically, but they aren't lacking and even Nayeon is pretty decent.

For itzy most of the girls are about the same level Ryuijin, Yeji, yuna and chaeryeon they are all above average.

Kai and taemin are both excellent dancers and performers Jyp may win for ggs,, bgs however its Sm

Quote from SeniorKpopper

Kai and taemin are both excellent dancers and performers Jyp may win for ggs,, bgs however its Sm

yeah maybe nct have good dancers

Quote from Slayurfaves

yeah maybe nct have good dancers

Maybe nct? are u doubting their skills and insinuating that other sm dancers aren't good2x (30).png

Agreed

I don't understand why some people are afraid of this thread. This is nothing but facts and one needs to be blinded with hate to deny it. People should separate their hate toward the company from the artists under it.

Anyway I agree with everything you said Ripia, just look at NCT, they have 23 members and all of them are super talented. Every unit has at least 3 capable vocalists while most companies have trouble debuting groups with just one capable vocalist. Heck Dream has 7 members and 3 of them are main vocalists.

Many people still drag SM's rappers and think they're doing something but not even that argument is valid anymore with rappers like Mark, Taeyong and Yangyang.

It's kinda ironic, for a long time in 2nd gen era, SM groups (esp SNSD, Super Junior) used to be laughed at, mocked and ridiculed by antis, other-company stans, other-group stans and large flocks of bandwagoning K-pop fans who believed blindly without questioning that SM artists and groups were 'talentless visuals'.

Ironic, because at that time, SM had many of the top tier vocalists and dancers among their groups and also as full groups they were multi-talented and very good in dance, vocals and performing.

SM's selection and training program has proven to be consistent across the generations, their coaching thoughtful and expert, because in each generation they deliver top tier dancers and vocalists, and the general quality level of their groups is above average to good in all skills and talent aspects important for performing idol groups.

Rap used to be an ignored thing for SM and their groups, but even that has been corrected with SM's newest groups like NCT and Aespa.

Anyone trivializing or denying SM groups' strong, multi-talented presence straight from debut with all the evidence and good quality groups SM has consistently produced in the past 15+ years, is just being hateful at this point.

I'm glad though that K-pop fans aren't just blindly bandwagoning and parroting haters anymore that SM groups are talentless, like they used to do in 2nd gen era.

for vocals i wholeheartedly agree but for rap nah, they have completely ignored that for years

NCT has their best rappers yet but actually only Mark is great imo, also they dont have that thing that i care most which is their idols have almost zero contribution in their own music. Even JYP has 2 self producing groups SKZ, Day6 and we all know YG, well idol groups not expected to write & produce but yall see lots of groups from small companies are writing & producing their own staff and makes me think SM groups are really behind in this department tho. I cant tell about dancing & stage presence since i am not that interested in dancing and i only see stage presence from very few idol groups in kpop. But for that department i feel HYBE, YG & JYP is still ahead of SM right now imo

Quote from ripia

OMG IKR people were literally bashing super juniors vocals back then...............

now everyone is like 'the best vocal group of all time' lmao

Yeah, YG stans, JYP stans and SM antis really went far with hate campaigning against SM and SM groups (and esp SNSD and Super Junior) in 2nd gen era, and they were effective with their nonstop shade crusades since entire masses of bandwagoning K-pop fans blindly believed it and parroted them, saying SM artists were talentless and robotic machines, or blindly quoting YG who said that YG artists were the 'only real artists'.

Like Chounim has often mentioned, people didn't even question it when the back-then main vocal analysts wouldn't analyse Super Junior vocalists, many of the ifans mocking SuJu's vocals saying 'why would you even include their singers?', implying again that their talents were far below other (non-SM) groups and artists.

Boy, were they shocked when they learnt how high SNSD and Super Junior vocalists ended up in vocal rankings

Which they had no right to be, anyone objective and paying attention would've already seen how great groups like SNSD and Super Junior actually were at singing, dancing and performing

I disagree about the rap part

Now maybe rap better with nct and aespa but it's not the same as sing and dance level

Quote from jinaland

for vocals i wholeheartedly agree but for rap nah, they have completely ignored that for years

NCT has their best rappers yet but actually only Mark is great imo, also they dont have that thing that i care most which is their idols have almost zero contribution in their own music. Even JYP has 2 self producing groups SKZ, Day6 and we all know YG, well idol groups not expected to write & produce but yall see lots of groups from small companies are writing & producing their own staff and makes me think SM groups are really behind in this department tho. I cant tell about dancing & stage presence since i am not that interested in dancing and i only see stage presence from very few idol groups in kpop. But for that department i feel HYBE, YG & JYP is still ahead of SM right now imo

There are several idol lyricists and producers in SM. It's just that SM doesn't use it as a selling point.