How Sexist is SM between it's female and male idols?

SM has always been SEXIST. a SAUSAGE FEST etc...

They always piss me off because of that. It's so so so INFURIATING.

Old power structures, even companies, and especially their "heads", tend to hold internal biases that shaped their existence.

It can be assumed there is always some sexism - and going both ways. the question is intensity and balance. How much was there? Is it strong? which side has more? which side has less? (referring to corporate structures, but can apply to individuals)

Without doing a gender equality audit (which may create a ESG¹ scandal for "no reason" in SM's eyes) there's no quantifying how sexist SM is.

¹ESG stands for environmental, social, governance, and is used as a catch-all term for corporate or corporate associated behaviour.

I'm not even going to entertain this, I'll just sit back and watch

like how many times they stole Taeyeon's awards to give it to their bgs?

in 2022, Taeyeon had a stella year with INVU, but they took her melon top 10 award and gave it to another bg. i know it because they waren't half as successful as Taeyeon that year.

i haven't forgotten how much more they push their bgs as well. prefering to promote fckass joping instead of Bad boy in 2018.

how they give combacks to their bgs even in their 20th years while ggs got discarded before they even hit 10year at most.

like seriously

and there are so many instances like this honestly.

For Taeyeon there is no reason to complain about sme treatment towards her when she keeps renewing with them.

She is satisfied with how they are half handling her career. She isn't a rookie anymore, she is where she wants to be.

SM has always mistreated their female idols and had a strong bias for male idols, that's not even up for debate. That being said, I don't think Taeyeon is the best example, not only because she continues to renew with them through all the complaints, but also because I strongly suspect there are mitigating factors preventing her from touring outside of East Asia that aren't SM's fault, including her popularity (or lack thereof) in other regions and her own desire to... stay closer to home.

This is how it's always been, to the point that I'm not even surprised anymore whenever it happens: SM has a long history of mismanaging their artists, and the girl idols even more so than their boy idols.

So many missed opportunities and odd, failed strategies SM did.

I guess they don't trust their girl idols and girl groups to do as well as their boy idols and boy groups, especially with concerts. And partially they're right: until Wonder Girls and especially SNSD launched the advent of K-pop girl groups to the level of success and popularity that boy groups enjoyed until then, girl groups lagged far behind boy groups.

Even up till now, girl groups as a whole often don't achieve the same level of fanbase, concert attendance and album sales that boy groups as a whole did.

However, what I find puzzling is that, while SM dares to experiment and take a gamble when it comes to heavily investing in their girl groups even after lacklustre, disappointing and just ok-ish debut years, they don't have that same guts and courage when it comes to pushing their girl groups and girl idols regarding concert tours. Maybe it's because SM Entertainment fall behind HYBE, JYPE and YGE when it comes to international networking and partners that they're extra cautious and conservative when it comes to concerts and international promoting.

As for Taeyeon, personally I've been thinking that she'd have been great on stage as a solo artist, ever since she did the phenomenal Devil's Cry where she showed that she could all kinds of different styles and vibes on stage with confidence and impact.

Never thought about that, but women arecertainly treated in disadvantage when it comes to opportunities.

Quote from monalisalove

For Taeyeon there is no reason to complain about sme treatment towards her when she keeps renewing with them.

She is satisfied with how they are half handling her career. She isn't a rookie anymore, she is where she wants to be.

What does half handling even mean here?

She has one of the most projects per year of experience among idols in that company. If it is "half handling" then what should we call about SM's treatments towards other idols?

---

Back to the question. Yes, SM has always cared more about males than females idols, but for good reasons. Every company will do the same for their biggest money makers.

The problem of SM is their main selling points has always been the males (except BoA in the 2000-2005 periods). They don't have the ability to make huge successful female idols like the male counterparts. Partly because SM is only strong in fandom building (advantage of BGs), but weak in making GP popular music (advantage of GGs).

Quote from FoReveries

However, what I find puzzling is that, while SM dares to experiment and take a gamble when it comes to heavily investing in their girl groups even after lacklustre, disappointing and just ok-ish debut years, they don't have that same guts and courage when it comes to pushing their girl groups and girl idols regarding concert tours. Maybe it's because SM Entertainment fall behind HYBE, JYPE and YGE when it comes to international networking and partners that they're extra cautious and conservative when it comes to concerts and international promoting.

To make big concert tours, you need either huge fanbase or huge popular songs. Their BGs at least have the fanbases, but the GGs don't have both. Don't misunderstand me, SM GGs all have hits their own but in quantity and popularity these hits are not at JYPE/YGE/HYBE's or even Starship's level.

A funny stats: SM have total 4 PAKs in the entire company history, still less than 1/2 of Starship (9 PAKs).

Quote from vinslow4

What does half handling even mean here?

She has one of the most projects per year of experience among idols in that company. If it is "half handling" then what should we call about SM's treatments towards other idols?

---

Back to the question. Yes, SM has always cared more about males than females idols, but for good reasons. Every company will do the same for their biggest money makers.

The problem of SM is their main selling points has always been the males (except BoA in the 2000-2005 periods). They don't have the ability to make huge successful female idols like the male counterparts. Partly because SM is only strong in fandom building (advantage of BGs), but weak in making GP popular music (advantage of GGs).

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Oh, the sme company stan is here again.

Go live in your bubble without thinking bc every time you protect sme that's how you appear to me:

Quote from monalisalove

Oh, the sme company stan is here again.

Go live in your bubble without thinking bc every time you protect sme that's how you appear to me:

Lol company stan just because I'm pointing out her favorable treatment? When I've been roasting every group of that company except 2? I'm also literally talking about sme's inability to make successful female act in the very post you quoted above.

Quote from vinslow4

Lol company stan just because I'm pointing out her favorable treatment? When I've been roasting every group of that company except 2? I'm also literally talking about sme's inability to make successful female act in the very post you quoted above.

Favorable treatment and then say sme inability to make successful female act.. your logic is as flawed as sme.

Oh ok, I guess I'll take the bait this time, actually.

I think SM is obviously a little sexist, but I think SM focuses more on male idols than female idols simply because there are more female kpop fans than male kpop fans. All I hear about are people gushing about male idols. Ideally, female idols would be super popular too, but they're just not. When the mainstream thinks of kpop, they think of BTS, which are.... you guessed it, men.

I'm not really saying things in a good way, as I'm horrible with getting my point across effectively. Also, Kai is more popular RIGHT NOW than Taeyeon. Taeyeon will forever be my queen, but you guys need to stop being biased. Yes, Taeyeon is a veryyyyy popular soloist, and she has had wayyyy more impact than Kai, but I guarantee more people would recognize Kai than Taeyeon in the western world. I think that may be why she's only had tours across Asia.

You guys act like she's being held in a dungeon and can't do anything. She literally dropped a new lead single for a compilation album in December. I do believe that Taeyeon should've BEEN had a world tour, but she hasn't, and she definitely won't get one now in the big 2026. That being said, I do think that Taeyeon has made more money for SM in total than Kai, but guess what, Taeyeon's been under SM for longer.

For crying out loud, next year will be the freaking 20TH ANNIVERSARY for Girls' Generation, and Taeyeon will have her 12TH ANNIVERSARY as a soloist. You guys should be grateful that she's still alive and kicking at all. With the short longevity of kpop, she's an outlier.

Kpop is more popular than ever after the stupid Kpop Demon Hunters thing that blew up to craaazyyy numbers. Kpop also got more popular after she debuted. Most of her die-hard day one fans are from the SNSD days, so they have to be at least mid 30s. You think they wanna be stuck in a crowd full of people with loud music? NO. Any way that I look at it, I just think some of you guys are being whiny again (like always) over nothing.

Quote from monalisalove

Favorable treatment and then say sme inability to make successful female act.. your logic is as flawed as sme.

How is it hard to understand?

Intention =/= ability.

Just because SME preferred her over other idols didn't mean they can make her success.

Quote from vinslow4

How is it hard to understand?

Intention =/= ability.

Just because SME preferred her over other idols didn't mean they can make her success.

No, it's ok, you are someone I don't want to try to understand

Quote from monalisalove

No, it's ok, you are someone I don't want to try to understand

Haven't you heard about "favorite child" where they get better treatment from parents despite not as accomplished as other siblings? All companies have those, SME is not exception.

Quote from vinslow4

Haven't you heard about "favorite child" where they get better treatment from parents despite not as accomplished as other siblings? All companies have those, SME is not exception.

1. Taeyeon is too powerful talent-wise - she is too strong of a vocal powerhouse and the industry could never find a new replacement (nor do they want to anymore - see my second reason) of her. The last thing for companies is to want to invest in such people in the long run and for them to become irreplacable or even worse, not stepping off the stage themselves little by little to be forgotten. This you successfully do with newer gens kpop groups- all generic clones of each other in an uncanney valley of just dance learning robots.

2. Getting rid of old acts - the current policy is to erase the memory of real talent as much as possible because companies are pushing for robotic looking nothingness that all sounds the same (end goal - AI). If older groups from the golden era still persist to promote they are made to change their sound to that new imposed same uninspired messy one - again to make them appear just as overhyped as their new groups by hiding their talents. We see it with SHINee's DCM/Hard/Juice, Suju's Express Mode, EXO's Crown for example. Fans will most probably stick around because they're loyal but people coming across them for the first time would see just another meh group that they have to fake it for but at least stop reacting because they're old. Companies want to remove their identities and almost any opportunity for them to actually show off thier talents.

As for why Kai - well, obviously why! He isn't a musical threat as Taeyeon (sorry, but that man can't sing for sh*t). They can take him off at any time for that reason. He's tuly an eye-candy and an awesome dance performer so ofc, SM would let him do all that. In those categories he is much more easily replacable especially when he becomes 'old' for this industry which isn't that far away. Dancing and sexiness you can find new replacements with no problem. Outstanding vocals are timeless compared to that. Bringing down real singers is pretty much impossible (unless they themselves destroy their vocal cords or some big scandal hits them). So companies would absolutely support someone like Kai compared to a real threat like Taeyeon. People like her become an obstacle for the narratives companies want to push.

Quote from vinslow4

To make big concert tours, you need either huge fanbase or huge popular songs. Their BGs at least have the fanbases, but the GGs don't have both. Don't misunderstand me, SM GGs all have hits their own but in quantity and popularity these hits are not at JYPE/YGE/HYBE's or even Starship's level.

A funny stats: SM have total 4 PAKs in the entire company history, still less than 1/2 of Starship (9 PAKs).

Have to disagree on 2 points: SM GGs did have hits in quantity and popularity at the level of the other big companies. Of course, SNSD already easily proved this case with their massive hits aside from their massive fanbase that equaled and surpassed even top bgs' fanbases. But also SM's other ggs had hits that were super popular, f(x), Red Velvet and Aespa had these. The only SM gg lagging behind right now is Hearts2Hearts.

Personally, I think it's more that SM's group management and promotion teams just had a habit of fumbling the ball in many cases.

As for PAK's, for quite a number of years SM got c***blocked for any PAKs because they didn't want to play ball with some of digital music companies, who as revenge prevented SM groups from achieving PAKs.

Also, personally I think they were prevented from reaching PAK for some of their hit songs due to some weird chart manipulation going on, seeing some weird, erratic chart behavior going on at those times that was too suspicious to be merely 'coincidental' - but that's just my personal opinion.

Quote from sonemariam

Fanbases are built. Especially outside Asia.

Had SM given RV the push NCT got, they'd be selling out Arenas and indoor stadiums or even more worldwide but they didn't.

Kinda this. Whether it was on purpose or mismanagement, SM could have done far more and better to uplift RV like how they did with NCT - but they didn't.

Quote from FoReveries

Have to disagree on 2 points: SM GGs did have hits in quantity and popularity at the level of the other big companies. Of course, SNSD already easily proved this case with their massive hits aside from their massive fanbase that equaled and surpassed even top bgs' fanbases. But also SM's other ggs had hits that were super popular, f(x), Red Velvet and Aespa had these. The only SM gg lagging behind right now is Hearts2Hearts.

Personally, I think it's more that SM's group management and promotion teams just had a habit of fumbling the ball in many cases.

As for PAK's, for quite a number of years SM got c***blocked for any PAKs because they didn't want to play ball with some of digital music companies, who as revenge prevented SM groups from achieving PAKs.

Also, personally I think they were prevented from reaching PAK for some of their hit songs due to some weird chart manipulation going on, seeing some weird, erratic chart behavior going on at those times that was too suspicious to be merely 'coincidental' - but that's just my personal opinion.

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Not really. SM GGs don't have as MANY GP hits as their contemporaries from Big 4/Starship. Take aespa for example, they only have one #1, two PAKs, compare to NJs and IVE they're still lagging behind. And this is one of company's most popular for awhile. Red Velvet, SNSD are also similar. They have hits, just not at the level of phenomenon as what other companies put out.

I know the PAK history of SM. It's true that they couldn't chart on one of a service (Cyworld). But even if we remove Cyworld from the requirements, only another 2 topped all other charts (Kyuhyun's At Gwanghwamun and f(x)'s Pinocchio).

The problem is that we are looking it through the len of kpop fans, where just a modest hit will be memorable. But for an average citizen, SM songs are not that well-known.

Quote from monalisalove

For Taeyeon there is no reason to complain about sme treatment towards her when she keeps renewing with them.

I think you misread OP post Mona. OP said :

Quote from sonemariam

So I'm taking Taeyeon and Kai for example.

I may be wrong, but I think the OP's intention was to discuss sexism within SM in a broad sense, and just take an example of idols op knows here. I don't think it was to complain.

And to give my answer, the answer is yes. But it's not unique to SM; it's the case everywhere in all agencies, except perhaps two or three small agencies where the situation is slightly better. I think the most telling example is song credits. Female artists have very little trust from agencies and are often much less involved in the creative process. This has improved over generations, but there is still a lot of inequality.

But it's true that it's rather ironic for SM when you know that it was a woman, BoA, who literally carried the company on her shoulders in its early days.

Quote from citron-icy

I think you misread OP post Mona. OP said :

I may be wrong, but I think the OP's intention was to discuss sexism within SM in a broad sense, and just take an example of idols op knows here. I don't think it was to complain.

And to give my answer, the answer is yes. But it's not unique to SM; it's the case everywhere in all agencies, except perhaps two or three small agencies where the situation is slightly better. I think the most telling example is song credits. Female artists have very little trust from agencies and are often much less involved in the creative process. This has improved over generations, but there is still a lot of inequality.

But it's true that it's rather ironic for SM when you know that it was a woman, BoA, who literally carried the company on her shoulders in its early days.

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Imo all big agencies focus way more in their male idols than female. Unfortunately that's how it is and while a lot say it has to do with fandom, I think some ggs or female idols could potentially be bigger if the companies did more for them!

Quote from vinslow4

She has one of the most projects per year of experience among idols in that company.

then why does she complain...

Is it just me or Taeyeon isn't THAT much of a vocal powerhouse

Yeah they totally are like look at all the opportunities Rizze is getting over Aespa for example... oh wait!

Quote from CaraFIMIE

Is it just me or Taeyeon isn't THAT much of a vocal powerhouse

but yunjin is tho

Quote from Tatiana1820

but yunjin is tho

ugh what a thief, leave Mona's pepe alone.

you have your conspiracies and I have mine, no?

Quote from CaraFIMIE

ugh what a thief, leave Mona's pepe alone.

you have your conspiracies and I have mine, no?

that's a conspiracy ?