Idols who can’t sing deserve all the criticism they get.

  • Why would they choose this as their career if they're not good at it?

    The answer is obvious. Popularity. Money. Applause without substance. And for that alone, no one should be blamed for criticizing idols like this. Especially when they come from the Big 4. These companies are drowning in money. Resources are endless. Good vocal trainers exist everywhere. Hire them. Outsource them. Pay for them yourself if you have to. And yet, some idols do nothing. Absolutely nothing.


    That is what really gets me. The complete lack of effort.

    Maybe it is the fans. Endless praise. Forced hype. Applauding every disaster until improvement becomes optional. Years pass. Time moves forward. But instead of growth, there is decay. These groups make millions from music and album sales, and I am supposed to accept that some of them still cannot hit the right notes? It is tragic.


    Experience builds skill. Repetition creates mastery. And yet these idols, after years on stage, still cannot sing properly while standing still. That is where my respect disappears.


    I know kpop has never been purely about vocals. I understand that. But if you are selling music, then at the very least it should sound decent. I am not asking for Beyoncé. I am asking for the bare minimum. Competence. Effort. Progress.


    So yes, they deserve criticism.

    This does not mean I support hate. But let us stop pretending honest commentary is cruelty. If someone says, "XX sounds like a dying goat", maybe that is harsh. But if it is true, then maybe the problem is not the words. It is the performance.

  • I’m aware that vocals aren’t the only important thing in kpop, but I agree with what you said about criticism. Sometimes, though, criticism can turn into constant hate. I think the most important point here is not being able to improve or make progress in singing despite the time that has passed and the experiences gained.

  • some people can sing really well when sitting.


    And i don´t think is fair to ask the same person to hit the right notes while perfoming a choreo.


    you try making an opera singer to sing perfect while doing a choreo. Maybe they will be able with one song. Now, in concert ...you are delusional

  • some people can sing really well when sitting.


    And i don´t think is fair to ask the same person to hit the right notes while perfoming a choreo.


    you try making an opera singer to sing perfect while doing a choreo. Maybe they will be able with one song. Now, in concert ...you are delusional

    Musical actors can, not just a concert but sometime 2 shows in a day, 5 days a week. They were trained for that. You don't have to look to far, just look at the idols who became top tier musical actors like Bada, Ock juhyun, Kim Junsu, Lina.


    Idol training currently are all unprofessional, not efficient, they just don't know how to teach idols the basic. It must be standardized. Or better company should leave it to the universities, they've been doing this for centuries. Or just recruit theater kids.

  • And the warnings are usually there before The Big Controversy™ happens. Performances that receive a smaller amount of backlash so the idol/agency doesn't bother improving. Without those small incidents—that still do reputational damage, The Big One™ would have never happened.


    I lose a lot of respect for performers that went by coasting so long as they got a check until they had no other choice but to improve

  • The problem isn't the criticism itself. It's the motive behind the criticism. That determines whether it's hate or constructive criticism.


    People just need to be honest with themselves about what they're doing. Much of the time, it's just a cheap tactic to get back at another fandom. Can't beat them on the charts, so they weaponize the critique of idols' skills.


    You have to wonder why they exert so much energy into making sure others know just how terrible the particular idol's singing is. They put together video compilations in hopes of going viral. That's hate.


    For those of us who genuinely love K-pop and legit don't care about the fan-driven competition, we tend to mean what we say without any ulterior motive. We might love a group, but be disappointed by some aspect of their performance. That's valid.

  • None of the idols you mentioned are ugly or having better looks than others. Luck is the most important factor in this industry, talent or look are just there to increase the chance.


    For example in YoonA's case, popularity came from the lead role from YAMD. It's not because of look, she's just lucky to be accepted on the right role and right show.

  • For example in YoonA's case, popularity came from the lead role from YAMD. It's not because of look, she's just lucky to be accepted on the right role and right show.

    actually no, Yoona was already praise for her natural beauty before she even starred in YAMD, it's actually thanks to her growing popularity thanks to her looks by starring in other SM act MV that she was able to get YAMD role

    and get SM to push her more

  • Agree


    Any idol should be able to sing well when they debut

    and people who talk about growth and improvement with the time are just looking for excuses


    I'm not saying that Idols doesn't improve with times and experience they do


    but Idols didn't just pick up in the street and then debut the next day, prior to their debut they spend 2-5 years in most case training having 2-3 vocal classes every week


    if we count the time they train + the time after debut they need to "grow", it's not normal that after pretty much 10 years, someone isn't able to be a decent singer and in this case they deserve the criticism for their vocal performance


    there's no excuses for an idol to debut after having so much training and not being able to hold a note or being off beat while singing

  • This! Intention and the absolute lack of nuance are at the core of what makes the kpop environment so toxic (although not exclusive to that). You can't criticize your group because that'd make you a fake fan. You can't criticize another group, especially a "rival one" because it has to be hating on the group (a lot are tbh).


    You either have to praise grandly or hate ans this forum is no exception to it.

  • I blame the fans. The most popular idols in each group is the visual. It literally doesn't matter if they can sing or not.


    And the only criticism I see about the vocals is when antis get feisty.

  • I blame the fans. The most popular idols in each group is the visual. It literally doesn't matter if they can sing or not.


    And the only criticism I see about the vocals is when antis get feisty.

    Visual is subjective tho. They are called visuals because they are popular, not the other way around. It's not like visual is an official position.


    The most popular idol in each group is the one lucky enough to be pushed the most, or pushed to right project. If the main vocalists were lucky they'd be popular too.

  • Visual is subjective tho. They are called visuals because they are popular, not the other way around. It's not like visual is an official position.


    The most popular idol in each group is the one lucky enough to be pushed the most, or pushed to right project. If the main vocalists were lucky they'd be popular too.

    I actually disagree. The company cannot push genuine interest in an unattractive idol.


    Visuals are the ones who have no singing or dancing talent chosen purely for looks. They keep getting viral for just their looks. Their fancams also have the highest views.

  • some people can sing really well when sitting.


    And i don´t think is fair to ask the same person to hit the right notes while perfoming a choreo.


    you try making an opera singer to sing perfect while doing a choreo. Maybe they will be able with one song. Now, in concert ...you are delusional

    What's the 2, 3, 5 or even 7 and 9 years of training for before debut?


    Choreo is an excuse. They either can't sing live because they can't be coached while singing live like they do in the studio or they just aren't trying hard enough.


    BoA sung live for years at concerts with strong choreography from a very young age. So it's very possible if they try.

  • I don't know much about Sulli but Yoona and Krystal can hold a note so, they can sing especially Krystal.


    And both lacked confidence in singing live, Krystal would sing at a lower voice during those moments when still active as Fx while Yoona sometimes had her live vocals edited with autotune or something but both can sing better than some idols I know.

  • Visual is subjective tho. They are called visuals because they are popular, not the other way around. It's not like visual is an official position.


    The most popular idol in each group is the one lucky enough to be pushed the most, or pushed to right project. If the main vocalists were lucky they'd be popular too.

    Plenty groups where visual is an official position. Plenty groups where the public knows nothing about the members until they receive images of them. There popularity does grow based on how their visuals are received, it's not all luck and company push.

  • This! Intention and the absolute lack of nuance are at the core of what makes the kpop environment so toxic (although not exclusive to that). You can't criticize your group because that'd make you a fake fan. You can't criticize another group, especially a "rival one" because it has to be hating on the group (a lot are tbh).


    You either have to praise grandly or hate ans this forum is no exception to it.

    I agree.


    I remember once saying that Yoona made more than Baekhyun because she's a senior with many years of high earnings (before Baekhyun started touring) as an Exol and I got hate from some people here from my own Exol fandom. They even stalked me in every thread and trashed everything I said in every post I made in every thread like they called me a hater in a blank pink appreciation thread just to get blinks and other fandoms to attack me.


    You either have to support everyone's opinion or you are a hater! The delusion is real.


    There are people with serious issues, bad people who just wait for any opportunity to attack you no matter what you say.

  • As someone who mostly prefer groups with good vocals, I lost hope in this industry during the 4th generation. I agree that calling out mediocrity is not a bad thing but Kpop fans should also learn not to jump from one hate train to another. I ignore groups that I find uninteresting. They are not thriving thank to me and at the same time, I don’t bother their fans who find joy in following them.

  • I don't know much about Sulli but Yoona and Krystal can hold a note so, they can sing especially Krystal.


    And both lacked confidence in singing live, Krystal would sing at a lower voice during those moments when still active as Fx while Yoona sometimes had her live vocals edited with autotune or something but both can sing better than some idols I know.

    and do u se any of them doing that now?

    no

    bc they live of their looks, they got popular bc of it and achiever more than maiin vocalist in their groups bc of it


    the funny thing is fans complaining here about it dont stream the music by this high-ass vocalists, why u think they become TikTokers while visuals are getting cfs and dramas?

  • Yeah honestly.. like your job is to sing bruh


    As I get older I realize kpop really is just full of untalented ass handsome/pretty people


    But also the idols who do get snatched is never consistent, like ggs get clocked way more often, while bgs like cortis can shamelessly lip sync with HAND MICS and nobody says shit

  • I have a simple rule, if it s not my fave idc how good or bad they sound, atleast not enough to leave a bad comment😒.


    If it is my fave, I will just role my eyes and wish they get better, often times people do.


    Kpop fans just wants to be hateful and use idols to vent their frustations.


    yall dont care bout vocals, you just wants to finally write something bad about the person you already did not like but have no reason to send hate and I will die on this hill.


    Funny thing is most of the people here in this forum wont even realize that how unnecessarily shady and hateful they are to idols who arent their faves. So many holier than tho folks who will shade other fandoms for being misyognitic shits will go around spreading hate in disguise of constructive criticism and acts like they are better than others

  • I actually disagree. The company cannot push genuine interest in an unattractive idol.


    Visuals are the ones who have no singing or dancing talent chosen purely for looks. They keep getting viral for just their looks. Their fancams also have the highest views.


    But there are not many unattractive idols. They were eliminated during auditions and member selections.


    Plenty groups where visual is an official position. Plenty groups where the public knows nothing about the members until they receive images of them. There popularity does grow based on how their visuals are received, it's not all luck and company push.


    Are you sure? Official means they wrote exactly like that on the descriptions. Most groups will not introduce member A as visual or something similar.


    and do u se any of them doing that now?

    no

    bc they live of their looks, they got popular bc of it and achiever more than maiin vocalist in their groups bc of it


    the funny thing is fans complaining here about it dont stream the music by this high-ass vocalists, why u think they become TikTokers while visuals are getting cfs and dramas?

    The 2 people mentioned all released new song just a month ago.


    And why "visuals" are getting cfs and dramas? Because they actively pursuit it. While the main vocals insist on singing. Actors are always more popular than singers of same levels, that's why they get more cfs.

  • and do u se any of them doing that now?

    no

    bc they live of their looks, they got popular bc of it and achiever more than maiin vocalist in their groups bc of it


    the funny thing is fans complaining here about it dont stream the music by this high-ass vocalists, why u think they become TikTokers while visuals are getting cfs and dramas?

    Krystal just made a solo debut and Yoona released a single and tours in Asia almost every year singing live to her fans so I don't understand what you mean by they don't do it. Yes, both act and model more than they do music but they've proven that they love singing and can sing.


    And, acting requires more than just visuals. Both are talented actresses and have won numerous domestic and international awards for it.


    I agree that visuals get more attention than others and longer careers. But, Yoona and Krystal now act more than they model tbh. Also, their personalities paly an important role in their success. Yoona got Snsd super popular first with her modelling and acting. As rookies, the love she received from Korea helped Snsd get the attention they needed to do well. Then Taeyeon with her Osts and Jessica with her unique vocals, chic fashion sense and ice princess aura.


    Also, Sulli was the pushed visual in Fx both with cfs and acting gigs but the GP fell for Krystal's icy image and beautiful body more. The official visual was Sulli but she failed to do better than Krystal in all aspects. Krystal picked up later due to several things like her legendary Snsd sister and her chic style and image and hardwork of course as she sung and danced as FX.


    Being a visual doesn't mean that they are not talented and are only favoured by their labels. They have real star factors that draw in the public and get them and their groups much love.


    Do you think visuals contribute to the success of Taeyeon?

  • I dont mind if they cant sing. But what i hate is when companies deceive fans into believing these idols are good singers when they are not. The idol cant sing well in encores but later sing amazing in a "live" VEVO shit or something like that? Give me a break.

  • Are you sure? Official means they wrote exactly like that on the descriptions. Most groups will not introduce member A as visual or something similar.

    Yes, you can go on Melon right now, go their artist descriptions translate their about the artist sections and see positions. For Taeyong, he is among many other official positions, a visual as noted. Fans don't get to write Melon artist pages. It's an official source. The days of every member unironically introducing themselves by position in interviews have gone but back in the days, the visual would say as much in their intro.

  • Yeah, 'cause if someone says: "I only do constructive criticism so they can be better." Kpop stans will believe it right?🤣


    Most people only know 2 things in Kpop: You either a blindfolded fan or a hater. There's no inbetween. Hence even if the criticism is fair and constructive, no one's gonna care about it, especially Kpop agencies. Fans will label everyone a hater and defend their faves with the most ridiculous arguments.


    I think one hand is enough to count how many idols listen to the criticism and developed their skills.


    People say it takes time, and yes it's true, but Idols are trained for years before debut, 2-3 years is enough to become an average vocalist with proper training, but most Kpop agencies don't care about that. I'd say at least 80% of Kpop fans don't care about skills, and popularity can save most groups from backlash. That's why agencies don't care about vocal training.


    Kpop was never about top-tier vocalists, and nowadays it's basically the least important thing.

  • I dont mind if they cant sing. But what i hate is when companies deceive fans into believing these idols are good singers when they are not. The idol cant sing well in encores but later sing amazing in a "live" VEVO shit or something like that? Give me a break.

    Actually this. Hybe, for example, was caught editing some "live" performance so I won't be looking at some idols that always struggle at singing and suddenly see a perfect live performance and think "wow, so talented" when unfortunately a lot of groups are having edited live performances.

  • Can't even believe this is a genuine discussion nowadays, the bar really is on the floor.


    Yes, there's different positions in Kpop groups and no one is going to deny there are members who are positioned as "visuals" who may not be as good of a vocalist as the main or sub vocals, but they all receive vocal trainings and should be able to sing the minimal of 5-10 seconds they may get in a song, no?


    Sejeong said this on the SBS's Universe Ticket and went viral amongst Knetz that talent was never the most important in Kpop, but an idol's lack of talent should never get exposed on stage.

  • Anyway the reason this debate is pointless is because the people who make such criticism stan idols who are not all that better than the idols they criticize.


    If you praise the mediocre singing of your favs while constantly criticizing others then people will side eye you.


    Ofc there are people who are over all neutral and in my observation these people only participate occasionally in discussion not spam hate 24/7.


    SM Stan’s are notorious at this and they give everyone a bad name because they stan dozens and criticize other dozens lol.


    Rest assured OP if you argue in good faith people generally react decently to criticism.

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