Y'all are such Visual stans......

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Lot of you are very selective on what you say about different groups/artists.

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My list what is most Important is

1st: Vocal because Kpop is music

2nd: Rap is also a really important part of music

3rd: Dancing because you can enjoy a song even more with a really good performance

4th: Visual it is nice to see beautiful person.

Double standards is a common thing among kpop fans. Even for you, me, everyone. So...

u shouldn’t take those random opinions to heart it’s all subjective lol

lol so what

I honestly care more about talent than visuals. I would rather stan an average looking idol with full of talent than an idol with stunning visuals but lacking talent.

Quote from daniel-cruz

There will be a thread like this on vocals too, and you can sure as HELL bet that whoever made the thread will be called a SM STAN.

Are you talking about something that haven't happened yet?

kpop is literally the most lookist entertainment that there is lmao

Literally every day you see an idol's visual being praised instead of their skills

Quote from daniel-cruz

as well as dance stans.....

I GOT COUPLE OF THINGS TO SAY:-

Recently I saw a thread openly bashing Idol Rappers by saying most Idol rappers are bad and their ruin the songs. No company stans were called out.

Also,

There will be a thread like this on vocals too, and you can sure as HELL bet that whoever made the thread will be called a SM STAN.

Double standards?

So if both of those things (Vocals, Rap) are so awful and ruin the songs, WHY TF ARE YOU A KPOP STAN?

Surely for Visuals or Charts/Achievements or Dance.

Also, I see a lot of people saying KPOP rappers are bad and KPOP vocalists are bad, KPOP songs are rarely catchy (literally said this), KPOP songs are trash etc

I don't see why you downplay KPOP so much and then go on and spend time on KPOP forums?

Sometimes it's very baffling to see this. It doesn't even make sense at all.

My point is,

Lot of you are very selective on what you say about different groups/artists.

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Perhaps unpopular opinion, but the vast majority of pop (not just Kpop) music stans are mostly success stans, with a sprinkling of varying other priorities. We are often just not self-aware enough to realize it.

Never trust people who claim to be able to judge rap in a language they don’t know. You know it’s all cap.

This is why everyone should stan SM , they give u the visuals and the talent

This site is anti-vocals I swear. If you say something about vocals they call you an Sm stan like no..... this is literally music. Vocals should be the most important thing, raise your standards please

Quote from Kireta

Vocals should be the most important thing, raise your standards please

True

Quote from frala19

Perhaps unpopular opinion, but the vast majority of pop (not just Kpop) music stans are mostly success stans, with a sprinkling of varying other priorities. We are often just not self-aware enough to realize it.

How does that work?
It's the stans that cause the success in the first place.
The industry wouldn't be able to sustain so many active groups if that wasn't the case. Nearly every group starts off with no fans.

Quote from daniel-cruz

Don't paint me with the same brush as you. We're not alike.

I will receive that as a compliment. And a big one at that.

But it's true you tend to judge based on double standards. You are not special, we all do it as it is human nature afterall. At least I can admit it about myself.

Quote from daniel-cruz

You know what success stan means?

Stanning because of Success to flex achievements of the group.

I think what Queeeenie meant to say is that most groups don't start with what we consider "success". They achieve it over time, eventually, or not at all. However, the groups that manage to get successful had a bunch of fans since the beginning, fans who supported them before they blew up, and then other people joined as well until the group became what it is today.

Those fans aren't fit for a generalization such as " the vast majority of pop music stans are mostly success stans, with a sprinkling of varying other priorities".

It seems many kpop fans don't really like kpop that much, which doesn't really help in removing the stigma.

Those people you mentioned who think most kpop is bad don't really consider themselves kpop fans, just fans of a few artists, who they see as exceptions.

Quote from daniel-cruz

I would like you to present a proof because you have a big mouth, now back it up.

First of all, my original post included everyone in this double standards thing but you were the one who reacted too negatively. And now you did even worse. I was right to receive our being different as a compliment.

I said nothing more than the basic truth. Everyone judges things based on their likes, preferences, experiences. There's no such thing as an objective used here. So people will be quick to judge others but not their faves. Turn a blind eye to things that would annoy them if said about the artists they like.

Moving on to my big mouth.

You judged people on multiple occasions for caring about achievements and that you are here for the music and you are above that but you were loud about achievements all the same. This is double standards alright. And that's one of the examples.

Quote from Queeeenie

How does that work?
It's the stans that cause the success in the first place.
The industry wouldn't be able to sustain so many active groups if that wasn't the case. Nearly every group starts off with no fans.

I was using a bit of hyperbole to make a point. Granted, I am also distinguishing the term "stan" from "fan" based on my own probably arbitrary definition, but when I meant more was that people who "stan" artists in pop music tend to be extremely focused on the sales/awards/achievements/status of the artists, often talking about those things far more than the music itself. Now I am not on any western pop music forums, but I have observed this on Twitter, and Reddit and places like that. This contrasts to a lot with "indie" or rather just lesser known artists, where of course people want them to be successful, but for example, I used to be on a progressive rock forum and most of the posts were in depth musical analyses with almost no mention of sales or awards and the like. I will add that I am not making a positive or negative judgement either way. People should be able to enjoy their hobbies in whatever manner they please, but just making an observation based on the prompt of the thread.

Quote from RunOutOfIdeas

I said nothing more than the basic truth. Everyone judges things based on their likes, preferences, experiences. There's no such thing as an objective used here. So people will be quick to judge others but not their faves. Turn a blind eye to things that would annoy them if said about the artists they like

This might be a little off topic but I don't know why people love to claim to be UNBIASED, and feel proud about it? Everyone has their biases and claiming to be unbiased is just you failing to recognize your biases. That's worse and will lead to bad decision making.

Being biased is not bad and it is human nature like you said. It helps us in thinking and responding to situations faster.

The double standards also come from being biased. And it's perfectly fine again. It's human nature.

The problem is that we are a collective of fandoms, not a unique fandom. We don't like K-pop, we like our faves. People like to downplay other acts so that they can get validation for their faves.

I don't see a problem constructively criticizing our faves, we are not obliged to blindly like their work. We are the consumers, we have the right. The problem is people's criticizing others' faves that they don't even consume.

Also, I don't understand all this hate on people who stan vocals. The last time I checked, K-pop was still music. For me, the most important part of music is and will always be the vocals and the instrumentals. I'm not even a SM stan (or am I since I stan Taeyeon and RV ?).

Vocals are superior.

Quote from daniel-cruz

Nah. Posting about because no one would doesn't mean i am obsessed with Charts. Although nice try.

You know who's loud about achievements, you very well know their names too.

And Yes I will criticize those who are obsessed with it.

Also,

I reacted negtively because i don't come into that group of people you were referring to. Not saying that i am better than all of you, I am not that type to have double standards.

Any better example?

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If you were here just for the music, you wouldn't care. You have been too loud yourself. Why does it matter if there's a thread if you don't care?

And do you think that coming at me would still make you look better?

If you can criticize others, then you should be ready to be criticised yourself.

Everyone has double standards, including you and my big mouth.

Quote from dopiee

This might be a little off topic but I don't know why people love to claim to be UNBIASED, and feel proud about it? Everyone has their biases and claiming to be unbiased is just you failing to recognize your biases. That's worse and will lead to bad decision making.

Being biased is not bad and it is human nature like you said. It helps us in thinking and responding to situations faster.

The double standards also come from being biased. And it's perfectly fine again. It's human nature.

There's no such thing as an unbiased fan. One way or another bias, pettiness or desire to praise will find their way into every opinion. Maybe not everyone does as much as the next person but it's still here. It's foolish to think otherwise.

Quote from Tic_tac_toe

Never trust people who claim to be able to judge rap in a language they don’t know. You know it’s all cap.

this. lack of knowledge about the language, idioms, + culture, many of us cant + shouldnt place ourselves in a position to FULLY decide that him or anyone is great or void of talent as a rapper.

yes, there are things we can recognize that is pleasing to the ear (mostly, a personal like or something that we are familiar with) + there are certain standards within the artform (depending on what lens the artform is viewed under), but even this has to be taken with a grain of salt.

Quote from frala19

We are often just not self-aware enough to realize it.

THIS THO. this is what i wanna see from more fans. shoot, i need to see it from myself more honestly.

Quote from daniel-cruz

You know what success stan means?

Stanning because of Success to flex achievements of the group.

I still don't think that is the case for the vast majority of fans.

It's the other way around. People flex when they stan a group that is successful, and yes some take it too far.

Most people here take notice of these numbers and other achievements because they act as receipts to use when their group's impact is questioned. It isn't surprising when people are so quick to say someone flopped.

I'm sure you feel proud of EXO when you make achievement threads for them, it's the same for many others too.