Wait a second. Doesn't ILLIT's success utterly destroy the "pre-debut hype is everything" agenda?

it proves nj point, hybe and mjh

Although being from a big company helps, it didn’t help baby monster that much nor nmixx because their music doesn’t hit.

K-pop Stan’s think ppl are eating up newjeans just because they’re from a big label.

But…

Newjeans (who came out of nowhere), has good music that ppl gravitate to.

ILLIT success depended on their music to turnover everything because most people just didn't thought they will hit it big with a debut due to the flop rating of their survival show. Anyone saying ILLIT being a HYBE group is the reason these results are expected are lying to themselves. These type of debuts are very rare, the last big wave been NJs, their unique debut blazed the industry. We expected the current result with BM debut not ILLIT lbrh.

I do think pre-debut hype is necessary, but another ILLIT won't happen again tbh. The next upcoming groups are TBL, SM GG all anticipated so they should be doing either on par or less.

Not really...Having good reputation is the most important. Company and hype are secondary

Treasure and Baby monster have come during the time that YGE is at the bottom of their reputation.

Nmixx came after all GG's of JYP are flopping at the chart

Illit came after HYBE have best reputation.

oh yeah. its power of music

right?

I think we are undermining how polarizing O.O was and how it effected their debut stats(even tho it still managed to chart). If Nmixx had a better song they would’ve done way better.

Quote from rain07

Not really...Having good reputation is the most important. Company and hype are secondary

Treasure and Baby monster have come during the time that YGE is at the bottom of their reputation.

Nmixx came after all GG's of JYP are flopping at the chart

Illit came after HYBE have best reputation.

Quote from Bembosa

I think we are undermining how polarizing O.O was and how it effected their debut stats(even tho it still managed to chart). If Nmixx had a better song they would’ve done way better.

Actually ur not wrong about that. This cemented their gg decline in the eyes of the public. Now, it would take some miracle for them to have PAK.

Concept and style of music matters. Visuals too, but almost all big4 and mid-sized company idols are visuals.

What made a difference besides concept and style of music? It was the 4 week build up before release.

All teasers in the 4 weeks were almost perfect and the music teasers went viral. In retrospect, only the title track is a very good song, but based on short teasers, you would have thought all songs were massive bops. Also getting into top global 50 will snowball things, while top 51 wont, so they were lucky.

Quote from killingtime1934

oh yeah. its power of music

right?

Globally yes. No one except fans will stream mid music. You can't get roi botting.

In Korean charts. Music quality isn't important, since it is only 200K uls to get into the top 5.

Pre-debut… non-debut… reality show competition.

Those don’t matter in the end,

Only the music matters.

Quote from rain07

Not really...Having good reputation is the most important. Company and hype are secondary

Treasure and Baby monster have come during the time that YGE is at the bottom of their reputation.

Nmixx came after all GG's of JYP are flopping at the chart

Illit came after HYBE have best reputation.

BP did well despite YG and other scandals. They should’ve declined but did not.

Only good music matters.

I agree, I'll eat's success killed the pre-debut hype thing. But it also proved hybe can make another newpants

Quote from QueenMaknae27

I agree, I'll eat's success killed the pre-debut hype thing. But it also proved hybe can make another newpants

they have a high uncle fanbase in asia thats running playlists

there unfiltered vs filters is 20-25% higher then someone like newjeans, and they are still only at 1.3 monthly listeners

Call me crazy but i think both NewJeans and Illcit or whatever their name is are big because they aren't as talented so the general public can sing their easy songs and sound close to the sound, they seem like the untalented next neighboor kids made a group so they relate, case closed

People really acting like if hybe debuted a gg like nmixx with equally polarising songs like o.o, they would’ve done just as well as illit rn or as nj did from their debut all thanks to the hybe privilege alone lolz

No matter how much copium you inhale, you can’t change the fact hybe is able to choose and release the type of music that’s the most commercially palatable and most likely to become viral hits rn, and that’s the reason their artists’ songs are doing so well

That’s the real hybe privilege aside from the financial resources. No amount of privilege can make terrible songs do well, unless they’re released by an established group with a huge following which can help mask the lacklustre response, at least at first. Time will show whether these songs are actually well liked tho, or just a middling success and not true hits

But newly debuted groups don’t have that luxury, and magnetic is definitely catching on thanks largely to the music, a fact that antis/fans of some big 3 groups hate to admit bc it points to their groups’ failure in picking commercially successful songs. And you can’t even use the excuse “arts before charts” for them, bc big 4 companies are the last ones who can say they don’t care about maximising profits and success with a straight face lmao

Doubt it Music never matters.....

Quote from rain07

Doubt it Music never matters.....

for me music is really the only thing that has ever mattered most. i love kpop for the fun weird music

i think cute girls + good company + good music = success

No bc it’s all fake numbers

Those that debut in hybe aren’t that much more privileged than big 3 groups. Hybe just knows how to put out music that the gp will eat up.

We saw this with TWS, and now with ILLIT

Quote from rain07

Doubt it Music never matters.....

What matters then?

Looks? There’s album sales with photo cards for that.

To some extent, I agree. I think Newjeans & Illit were given better debut songs than Babymonster. Batter UP IS a bad song. I think we can all agree on that. It's formulaic, predictable, cringey lyrics, sonically not very interesting.

But other than the songs, I think it's the concept as well. More specifically, how well the concept fits the members both conceptually & visually. Newjeans & Illit's members fit their concepts to a T. Newjeans members are young, fresh and playful, just like their concept while Illit members really suit their cute magical girl style, especially the Japanese members & Wonhee. They look, act & sound like what the public expects so it's easy to buy into their concepts.

OTOH, YG is trying to make Babymonster fit that badass textbook girl crush mold when most of the girls can't pull it off convincingly. Most people aren't going to take 15/16 year olds singing about being bad bitches seriously. The only members who can kind of pull it off are Chiquita (ironic given that she's like 15 and the youngest) and to an extent, Ruka. The rest of the girls with their baby cheeks and doe eyes (Ahyeon, Rora, Pharita, Haram, Asa) just look way too sweet for this concept despite being obviously talented. If a group like, say Kiss of Life or the rumored TBL new girl group (despite probably being in a similar age range as BM) did this concept, I think the public will be more willing to suspend their disbelief and buy the idea that these girls can fuck you up. They have that bad girl ABG vibe that most BM members lack. They're trying to pull off a Blackpink without Jennie & Lisa.

Unfortunately, looking at the upcoming release (Sheesh), it seems YG is still insistent on forcing this concept on them so it doesn't look good for BM. It's like a designer forcing a model to wear cloths 3 sizes too big and then getting frustrated why they don't look good. What they need to do right now is really figure out what concept DOES fit with BM and go all in with that. It just seems like they haven't really given much thought at all with BM's concept and just recycling the same old and hoping it would stick. Also, they can start by changing the cringey name Babymonster to the much better Baemon.

TLDR: Babymonsters are like Barbie dolls while YG are trying to make them be Bratz dolls and the end result just looks too weird and try-hard that the public has a hard time buying it.

Nah, YG is just stupid, they dumped all the money on Youtube promotion like they did for BP back in the day. But Youtube is dead now(when it comes to MV views), money would've been better used on Youtube music and Spotify.

Quote from YamaChwan

He picked bad songs. Imagine releasing a video just to brag about the fleet of in house producers who brought us Batter Up and now Sheesh.

BM, your new favs, flopping is more proof that music and concept (revising to include this after that very good recent post above) matter more than any kind of hype.

ILLIT is also proving that with their results even though they had exponentially less hype.

I never want to see the hype argument on this forum again.

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Dude, some kids on akp told you that Illit had no hype and now you're being petty about that. Did I ever say Illit had no hype? Did anyone else with two braincells said that? Nah, so go have your little win over dumbass teens and stop making everyone part of it. Predebut hype matters when you recognize it.

I think you should’ve waited for this thread until a week or two after BMs cb. They will promote this time and I think that will make a big difference in their numbers.

Quote from YamaChwan

Why are you so mad?

If I am talking to mostly kids, then class is in session

Plus I don't isolate my views based solely on AKP. I'm on all the kpop subreddits and VERY RARELY peruse X

Cause you're trying go claim a win against everyone including me. You're literally replying to this very thread, so please check my reply there.

Post

RE: Why is there no interest for I’LL-IT when this is a Hybe girl group?

Wait until they debut and Hybe starts the propaganda roll.

Dreamer95

Nov 9th 2023

I never doubted Illit so keep me out of this Always make sure you add the disclaimer that Dreamer95 was right

Quote from YamaChwan

Even if BM do well, that doesn't negate the point of this thread. That would actually prove my point even more.

They released a stale, dated song and completely wasted their debut hype.

If they do well with their next song, that's more evidence how much music matters.

Sheesh doesnt sounds good though. If they do well I think it will be due to promo and not the song choice. Their bside Like that sounds promising. I hope they promote it.

Quote from YamaChwan

Don't get all salty just because you decided to token stan the wrong group.

Imagine how many Ws you'd have right now if you chose to bandwagon ILLIT. They out here actually breaking NJ Spotify debut records while the group you chose is....

I don't like easy tasks

Quote from YamaChwan

That doesn't make you a very good success stan then

It's not too late to switch teams. I know you want to

I'll consider you offer after Sheesh

Ehh I don’t think anything proves or disproves anything. Does IVE success prove you “yoh do need an IT girl to survive” does new jeans success prove “company name is everything”? Does gidle’s success prove you need self composition to succeed

Different things are required by different groups.

New jeans maybe COULDNT have been successful if they didn’t debut with all the privilege HYBE

Aespa couldn’t have have been successful with the weird ass concept in any company other than SM who would pump money into it

Blackpink was so much larger than life pre debut I can’t imagine how it would be without that for them.

Etc etc

These reasons are required only for these SPECIFIC groups to be successful. Other groups need other things. What works for ILLIT wouldn’t have worked for GIDLE and what worked for aespa may not work for new jeans or IVE and so on and so forth.

There’s no formula as such that works for everyone.