Groups that were never really good to make it - #2 Itzy

  • Okay, I guess it is time to talk honestly about Itzy.


    JYP has become kind of a punching bag for his recent girl groups underperforming. And righfully so. But people would blame him for the music, content and promotions, and again, rightfully so, but one thing they don't wanna blame him is for actually putting these groups together. I find it pretty hypocritical to say the least. Like you're saying the guy who does everything wrong did no wrong in actually creating the group?


    1) Somi group without Somi.

    This is a well known fact that Itzy was supposed to be Somi's group. Then something happened, either Somi fucked up and JYP kicked her out or she made her own choice, we'll never know, but she left. Somi's group became Somi'less. Now the right thing to do was to postpone the group and make some changes. But nah, JYP had a promise to shareholder and didn't want stocks booboo, so he replaced her with Yuna and pushed through with the debut.


    Now at the time, after Dalla Dalla came out and did well and Yuna trended couple of times, people immediately assumed problem was solved, the genius JYP did it again, another hit girl group but now looking back it no longer seems so. Itzy members are pretty and charming but none of them is literally the nation's #1 pick.


    2) Not delivering on the promise of talent

    Again, remember, Itzy were supposed to be this really talented group who're just gonna kill it with their performances? Remember? And they are just not, sorry. Sure they are good at dancing, but who isn't? Majority of girl groups are. Hard choreography? Please, Twice and Gfriend already had that covered.


    What about singing and rapping? Well, JYP is a 26 years old company and they still haven't figured out rapping, which is ridiculous. Especially when he seems to be close with YG, like, ask him for a lesson, man, it ain't that hard. Twice got a pass cause it ain't their concept. But you debuted a girl crush teen crush or whatever group that still can't rap? That's embarrassing.


    Before I get into the singing part, lets talk about their songs first.


    3) Itzy's songs are bad.....or are they?

    Now, this is a popular opinion that Itzy is struggling cause their songs just aren't that good. And I am one lf the perpetrators of this opinion. But have you ever actually thought what if another group performed Itzy's songs? Would they still be bad?


    Take Loco for example, is it actually a bad song? Think about Mamamoo or another vocally strong group performing it, picture it in your head and reevaluate. The thing is that the song is actually quite good and catchy, the problem is Itzy are yelling it at you instead of singing it to you. And that's with every Itzy song. Their vocals are weak and they'd just compensate it by yelling out all of their songs. And that's just offputting.


    Or take Sneakers, one of their most hated songs. It is not a vocally challenging song however it requires a softer and cuter approach. Like I wouldn't even be surprised to hear that the song was actually written for Red Velvet, it'd fit right there with Happiness and Rookie, it is such a RV song and they'd totally nail it with their soft and harmonious vocals.


    Some of their songs are indeed irredimable but the case with most is just Itzy's lack of singing skills.

    Itzy is a group of pretty dancers and that's their biggest problem.


    Sorry, the few Itzy stans remaining on this site, but this post was pending for long.


    The previous one:

    Groups that were never really good to make it - #1 Weki Meki - K-POP - allkpop forums

  • in relation to Somi though...I think the reason she left was because she wanted more solo activities...and we can't have that in JYPE (especially not as it relates to JYP GG) and they couldn't see eye to eye in terms of that so she left

  • For the first time, i actually see eye to eye with you


    Good take on ITZY. I wont care much about the "Somi'less" part as a yet to debut groupncan always re-adjust before debut. BUT the rap + constant shouting is really a big issue that JYP needs to address. Lia and chaeryoung sounds very decent BUT Yeji you really need to stop shouting when singing (it give flavors to song sometimes but too much is not good). And yuna has decent skill with rap but her voice imo is not very suitable for rapping. People said Jimin and Soyeon's voice are annoying but i personally think Yuna's the most annoying. It was okay for first few songs when Yuna has limited raps BUT as soon as they step into Not Shy and Mafia era ...

  • I agree with most points but the biggest problem with Itzy is they just don't have that IT factor and if you added Somi to the group, it would be glaringly obvious.


    I think this comeback is Itzy's last chance but JYPE has already screwed up by releasing so many MVs.. a group like Itzy who have fallen from grace need that ONE song that will hit big with the GP and focus on it. They already tried multiple MVs for KMD era and none of the bsides ended up charting so idk what JYPE is thinking by releasing four more MVs this era

  • this part of your post is an interesting take.


    When i imagine mamamoo singing loco or redvelvet singing sneakers, suddenly these songs don't seem bad, not only because of vocals skills of these groups but also because the songs match and suit mamamoo and redvelvet's concept and image very well too. Jyp set up the concept of itzy nicely with dalla dalla, icy and wannabe but then it became a mess after that

  • I think this comeback is Itzy's last chance but JYPE has already screwed up by releasing so many MVs.. a group like Itzy who have fallen from grace need that ONE song that will hit big with the GP and focus on it. They already tried multiple MVs for KMD era and none of the bsides ended up charting so idk what JYPE is thinking by releasing four more MVs this era

    I don't think the solo MV's are for the GP.


    JYP's trying to have their cake and eat it too. Basically trying to promote them 'solo' but within the strict confines of the group (want to buy Yuna solo - buy the group album) - it's a very JYP kind of angle. They get solo activity but it's still basically in group parameters.


    The solo MV's are 'here fandom, have a bone', and trying to maintain or grow from their current album sales (which have (more or less) plateaued in comparison to all other main gg's).

  • Biggest factor is that their songs get mixed opinions and are not public friendly. If your songs are good, all the stuff with talent/performance etc. go away easily and often get swept under the rug. I mean, only Kpop fans look and argue 24/7 about talents and bait post hating on whatever. The casual public, and non-Kpop fans really only care about good and catchy music, and if you have a reputation for good music, your group will rise to the top regardless, especially if you have a JYP company backing you.


    But also ITZY came at an awkward time transitioning between 3rd and 4th gen. Twice and other top groups were still going strong in 2019, and as an anticipated sister group, ITZY had a completely different image and concept than Twice. There are still "company stans" who supported both groups, but if your music is so different, a lot of them will not necessarily stan them and become hard core fans.

  • They are performance and dance driven and always been from the start, so I don't get why JYPE's A&R try to push them into doing songs that are way too vocally challenging for them (Cheshire, Bet On Me, etc), which end up sounding super strained and grating. That's the only negative aspect that really sticks out to me.


    Apart from that, they're doing just fine. The latest mini was great and they keep releasing good music. A lot of duds yes, but I like their discography more than TWICE's for example.

  • If anything ITZY's talent and charisma on stage are some of the biggest reasons why their songs did better on charts than they could've done performed by other acts.


    Apart from Dalla Dalla, a couple of their songs started weaker than It's peak when they were released and started to grow on the charts when people started to watch them performing it live. It happened to ICY, Wannabe, Not Shy, Mafia, even Cake.


    It happened to Sneakers too, even though It's virality was more due of Chaeryeong's personality bringing it attention.

  • If anything ITZY's talent and charisma on stage are some of the biggest reasons why their songs did better on charts than they could've done performed by other acts.

    You're just making it up, there is no indication if that. In fact knetz have been pretty critical of their live performances.

  • You're just making it up, there is no indication if that. In fact knetz have been pretty critical of their live performances.

    No, I'm not. I've been following ITZY since debut and the songs I mentioned reached their peak in popularity a week or weeks after It's release due to their live performances.


    For example, one of the songs I brought: Mafia. When It was released, this was Knetz opinion about It's quality


    However, after almost 2 weeks when It was climbing (It actually reached #10 on Melon 24hits),

    this was Knetz opinion on the song saying It's performances/ITZY themselves saved it.


    And this is just an example I could quickly search. You can you it yourself for more. But the responses about the quality of their performances and how It helped the songs to grow on them was consistent.

  • Sorry, but how does some netizen saying "performances" saved it makes it true? This is no different to me writing random theory here on AKP and a netizen in Korean treating it as a fact. The song rose when they promoted it. That's the basic principle. Same happens to many other groups.

  • Sorry, but how does some netizen saying "performances" saved it makes it true? This is no different to me writing random theory here on AKP and a netizen in Korean treating it as a fact. The song rose when they promoted it. That's the basic principle. Same happens to many other groups.

    But It was you who used Knetz' supposed opinions as a counter-argument to my post saying they are actually very critical about their performances. Now you are complaining I was showing you what they were saying It's the opposite? I'm confused...

  • But It was you who used Knetz' supposed opinions as a counter-argument to my post saying they are actually very critical about their performances. Now you are complaining I was showing you what they were saying It's the opposite? I'm confused...

    Far point but then again this just proves that none of us really knows anything about how Koreans perceive their performances and since you were first to appeal to that, you're in the wrong. ;judgingpepe:

  • Silly silly MInazuki. Dont you know logic arguments and reliable proofs dont work with dreamer? Ask Blinks


    Wait till he blows a gasket and writes abusive insane shit on your profile wall because he is a little bit... shall we say.... unbalanced?

    I like how me and Minazuki just playfully laughed about it and blinks are trying to find a drama in here :pepe-cringe:


    As for Phantom, the only reason I did you a favor of visiting your profile is because yall got my thread locked and I couldn't reply to your obvious lies.

  • I like how me and Minazuki just playfully laughed about it and blinks are trying to find a drama in here :pepe-cringe:


    As for Phantom, the only reason I did you a favor of visiting your profile is because yall got my thread locked and I couldn't reply to your obvious lies.

    It ended so harmless, I was surprised when I came back to the forum and saw more mentions here1509131657_deadbanana22-Copy.gif

  • If anything ITZY's talent and charisma on stage are some of the biggest reasons why their songs did better on charts than they could've done performed by other acts.


    Apart from Dalla Dalla, a couple of their songs started weaker than It's peak when they were released and started to grow on the charts when people started to watch them performing it live. It happened to ICY, Wannabe, Not Shy, Mafia, even Cake.


    It happened to Sneakers too, even though It's virality was more due of Chaeryeong's personality bringing it attention.

    actually every song from a big company gg start to rise once promotion and performance start it's a common knowledge for every group that performance give more exposure to the song and lead to more people listening to the songs


    that's why people are always saying wait for the music show performance to start to really have an idea about the charting of a song

    ✩We Born with the X-Gene✩

  • actually every song from a big company gg start to rise once promotion and performance start it's a common knowledge for every group that performance give more exposure to the song and lead to more people listening to the songs


    that's why people are always saying wait for the music show performance to start to really have an idea about the charting of a song

    Yes, but in ITZY's case there's a couple of reactions online complimenting the quality of their performances and saying It made them changing their minds on said songs during multiple comebacks.


    Even though, It doesn't speak for the whole population as Dreamer pointed out and I don't disagree, can give a honest view of a consistent reaction caused by their releases.


    And I'm not saying It can't happen to anyone else too. There's multiple great performers in K-pop that upgrade the quality of their songs when people see them live.

  • the problem of itzy is a group who keep stagnate and can't reinvent themselves


    in contrary of trying to create hype and surprise people with new concept and aesthetic or sound

    they just keep living in the past of their old hits releasing always the same thing, and being pushover with it until they get another hit


    once they saw the galactika sound and the "self love" was working with them after the success of Dalla dalla, they kept pushing the same thing again and again until people quickly become bored and tired of listening to the same sound and same lyrics in every tracks


    and now that they got another hit with sneakers, they are back at being pushover and pushing this sound with cake hopefully thinking that it will give them another hit one day if they keep pushing for the same sound again and again


    and it's crazy that JYP doesn't seem to understand that being a pushover doesn't work look at the top girlgroup recently :


    - Ive went from their elegant feminine concept to girl crush concept and got 2 hits back to back


    - Gidle went from Girlcrush with tomboy, to more sexy with nxude, to fun girl crush with queencard


    - aespa went from 2000's summery vibe concept to dark and full girlcrush with drama and they got 2 hits


    - Lesserafim went from unforgiven to something chiiller with perfect night and got another hit



    only Itzy and JYP continue to try to pursue their old fame byt trying to recreate their old hits but what was working 3 years ago isn't working anymore

    ✩We Born with the X-Gene✩

  • for me the problem is always the songs, they are a girl crush group but suddenly they stop doing that concept after loco which was weird because they're really good at it (galactika should've been their main producer lets be real), and maybe the rap is also lacking i guess lol

  • I like how me and Minazuki just playfully laughed about it and blinks are trying to find a drama in here :pepe-cringe:


    As for Phantom, the only reason I did you a favor of visiting your profile is because yall got my thread locked and I couldn't reply to your obvious lies.

    Had nothing to do with your thread getting closed little one. Didn't even know it was closed.


    But it's ok. I understand you have some anger issues that make dealing with the world around you difficult. It's fine. We all know that you lashing out is your way of handling the difficulties you face, real or imagined.


    You're our special little guy.

  • Had nothing to do with your thread getting closed little one. Didn't even know it was closed.


    But it's ok. I understand you have some anger issues that make dealing with the world around you difficult. It's fine. We all know that you lashing out is your way of handling the difficulties you face, real or imagined.


    You're our special little guy.

    oh my god do you not cringe when you write things like this fuck me HAHAHAHAAHA

  • I think the idea that they have no IT factor isn't exactly true, Yuna especially going viral several times after debut is proof of that. The material was the main issue (the chanting, mediocre vocals, same topic and same concept), and now with LE SSERAFIM giving what they were giving but better it's gonna be alot harder for them to regain that former glory.

    It also makes zero sense why Galactika wasn't to them what BEP was to TWICE when their best performing songs ,especially internationally, were produced by them

  • Sorry, but how does some netizen saying "performances" saved it makes it true? This is no different to me writing random theory here on AKP and a netizen in Korean treating it as a fact. The song rose when they promoted it. That's the basic principle. Same happens to many other groups.

    this is literally what you do all the time though. This thread is you theory dude. I can tell you how most Koreans perceive the performance they dont give a fuck. I have lived in Korean for nearly 6 years you wanna know how many times I have discussed kpop performances with Korean friends or just any strangers? exactly zero times. Most Korean dont give a shit about enough to care about it. What they care about is the song, is it catchy? Trendy? shit like that.


    You make this whole thread about iTZY failing, even though they do fine just not virally impactful as their debut, to explain why ITZY is failing when at the end of the day they declined because JYP's shit marketing and a few poor choice in songs. Being some doesnt matter at all. Hell, Somi suffered their first few years after her solo debut people were calling her a flop. I guess fora. bit Somi was Somiless.


    When a group from the high three doesnt do well the easiest and probably most correct blame can be put on song choice and poor marketing by their company. JYP is shit at marketing his groups this is known. Thats the problem with JYP

  • this is literally what you do all the time though. This thread is you theory dude. I can tell you how most Koreans perceive the performance they dont give a fuck. I have lived in Korean for nearly 6 years you wanna know how many times I have discussed kpop performances with Korean friends or just any strangers? exactly zero times. Most Korean dont give a shit about enough to care about it. What they care about is the song, is it catchy? Trendy? shit like that.

    ??? Is this opposite to anything that I said?? The other users brought this up and claimed that Itzy songs rose on charts because of how great they performed them. I never made any point about "live performances".

    You make this whole thread about iTZY failing, even though they do fine just not virally impactful as their debut, to explain why ITZY is failing when at the end of the day they declined because JYP's shit marketing and a few poor choice in songs. Being some doesnt matter at all. Hell, Somi suffered their first few years after her solo debut people were calling her a flop. I guess fora. bit Somi was Somiless.

    Again another "argument" that doesn't contradict anything I said. They are doing fine, yes, just fine, nothing to write home about. Somi flopping on her own doesn't disprove my argument that lack of Somi hurt Itzy. It only proves that both sides needed each other.

    When a group from the high three doesnt do well the easiest and probably most correct blame can be put on song choice and poor marketing by their company. JYP is shit at marketing his groups this is known. Thats the problem with JYP

    Now this one is finally something we can partially argue about. As I said in the OP, yes, I do acknowledge JYP fucked up quite a few song choices but I also strongly believe, again as I already said, that Itzy couldn't really handle some of the songs that they were given that were good. I brought examples as well. If only you just read through before rushing to give us your opinion.

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