Methods used to inflate numbers in kpop?

I've seen a bunch of arguments over the years I've been a kpop fan about how artists, fans, and/or companies try to game the system to inflate their numbers. Most of the them require fans to be willing to put in time and/or money for them to work.

What do we think? Are these legit or should they be looked down upon? Do the numbers generated through these methods end up being a true indicator of popularity or just how dedicated and organized a fan base is?

Should the people who make the charts try to counteract these measures?

Have you seen other techniques?

1. Bundles

2. Mass Buying

3. Zombie Streaming

4. Remixes

5. Multiple album versions

6. Extra photocards

7. Selling albums with chances to win fan calls

8. Fundraising for purchases

9. Strategic buying like buying multiple copies in separate transactions with made up emails

10. Strategic streaming from multiple accounts by the same person

Quote from mysterikmagick

Every single major artist has inflated numbers, whether by fans or by the deals their team makes to force-feed their content to the public. If optics didn't matter, no one would go to these lengths, but this is the reality of the release climate.

Should charts try to counteract these things then and attempt to put all artists on a level playing field?

Quote from Icaro_Ribeiro

The most annoying of them all: Non shipping back

I dont even know why those are supposed to count as sales

I don't know what that is. What is it?

Quote from mysterikmagick

sure, if they also decide to put a cap on streaming's impact and don't count radio (UK chart good example -- they don't allow one single alone to carry an album on the chart)

I don't know if I would completely get rid of radio for the US. Radio is still used to consume music by a very large portion of the population in the States. Cell service and internet access still is spotty in the more rural areas of which we have a ton. Country music radio is especially big in those areas. And actually, even though I live in a major metropolitan region, I still know more people who listen to the radio than I know who listen to kpop.

Quote from icyruios

Doesn't matter. Sales are sales

Only kpop no lifers are that bothered by how other groups beat their faves because of "tactics"

Wow, that was an emphatic response.

Okay, so let's take it to the extreme. If Elon Musk suddenly decided that he wanted a number 1 hit and recorded something, bought a million copies, and hired people to stream it, would that be something that people should have an issue with? Or should that number 1 be considered legit coz a sale is a sale?

Quote from Icaro_Ribeiro

You purchase an album without an address, so it's up to the seller to do whatever they want with the copy. Generally speaking, they are just discarded in some landfill without ever going to the hands of the buyers. Chinese fandoms use this, so they don't need to pay shipping fees. With such tactics they are able to buy over three more times than they could with shipping fees included

Wow, i had no idea that happens. So they don't even get the pcs or other extras? They're just straight donating money to millionaires? That's wild.

Quote from icyruios

But he is buying his own sales that is different. Thing is in this scenario he is buying and paying people to eat up his products

All the things you mentioned in the OP are tactics to increase sales, versus buying own sales.

If Elon Musk wanted a No.1 hit, recorded something, made it HELLA CHEAP because he can do it, and millions of people buy it, I still see it as a sale. I mean if you are stupid enough to buy it then Elon Musk deserves his sales

So buying his own albums vs something like if he bundled the blue check with his album and people bought it.

Quote from Kataphract

Gacha buffer: People order full sets of photocards via a "gacha buffer" who will upsell the photocards at a massive premium..

This isn't really scalping because scalping provides no service but this is right next to it. the only service provided is getting all photocards with an album in one go. Albums left without photocards may not even sell at a discount.

So this gacha buffer is ordering hundreds or even thousands of albums in order to assemble a complete set to resell? I had no idea. Are pcs really that valuable? My pcs are just dumped in a box somewhere or stuffed between the pages of the album book lol

Quote from tetetete

Each sale of a consumer should count on chart

I think u missed how fancalls inflate sales too

Abum versions (and photocards) and fancalls are the 2 main ways to inflate sales

It's number 7. I personally would never go for a fan call coz that just seems embarrassing, but i know people do.

So if one person bought 1000 albums and just dumped them, should they count?

Quote from icyruios

This

If he bundle his albums with other stuff it's tactic

If he buy his own albums it's fraud. It's like faking your own sales.

It's like saying I open a restaurant, and I cook 100 dishes, for myself, but I don't eat it, and throw all 100 dishes away, and said I sold 100 dishes today.

Display More

What if I did that but I ate all 100 dishes?

Quote from Kataphract

You'd be surprised at individual PC costs. much less a full set, rares included.

Huh, now I'm curious.

Quote from unbannBLACPINK

who care

Who cares about this thread? Or who cares about tactics, all sales are valid?

Quote from ISaidISaid

Like icaro said non shipped albums are the WORST.

Everything else I think charts will somehow curb with time. Mass streaming and digital downloads are already being slowly curbed and people will double down even more on it.

Hanteo should start having 4 limit sales as well Imo

Yeah, i feel like charts are trying to play wack-a-mole, but they will never fully catch up with all the changing tactics.

It's interesting to see the things they try though. Like I recently read that UK charts restrict an album to only having 3 tracks on the chart so that one album doesn't block so many other artists.

Does Hanteo have any limits at all?

Quote from unbannBLACPINK

who care about tactic

all sales are not valid but caring about tactics is kind of similar to caring about numbers in the first place

Yeah, I agree. I mean, I'm happy when my faves do well, but that's mostly because i want them to still be able to continue as a group more than bragging rights.

Maybe I'm a bad stan though, because I don't care enough to provide unpaid labor or charity for them to hit a specific chart position or break a record. Seeing what stans will do for their faves blows my mind to be honest. Who has the time and energy for all that? I don't put that much effort into my actual job.

Quote from tetetete

I didn't notice at all

Yeah I think they should count, if someone is spending approx 20,000 dollars it should count on the chart

What charts can do is put a factor on it i.e. after the 15th sale, every next sale will only weigh 20% on the chart by doing a study on how much the usual buying pattern of a consumer is but the sale should reflect on the chart in some way

It's okay Tetete. I know you only read half my posts anyway.

But if the goal of the chart is to reflect what's popular, should one person be allowed to skew that measurement?

Quote from tetetete

I believe the chart should reflect the revenue earned from the album, especially a physical album sales chart

Then instead of counting number of sales, maybe the chart should count dollars earned like the movie industry does.

But then, I don't think that would tell us much about popularity. Movie ticket prices are more standardized. An album that costs 20 bucks would count for more than one that costs 10 bucks.

Quote from mysterikmagick

radio is popular in the UK too but their reasons for not counting it in the official single charts is logical -- it's not a consumer's active choice, it's a passive one. a lot of global charts don't count airplay as a factor for singles charts (but there's separate airplay charts, which is fine). no chart is perfect, but one that doesn't allow any particular party to hold disproportionate power seems most fair.

Hmmm, i feel like that would cut out a lot of country artists amd artists whose fanbase isn't into streaming.

Maybe all the charts should just be split up then - sales vs streaming. But then, how playlisting gets passive listeners too so something would have to be done with that as well.

Quote from kazuyakamenashi

Easy fix is make it organic listeners to gauge actual popularity of an artist everyone is limited to one entry multiple bundles or versions of the same albums are excluded entirely from counts. Do the same for streaming etc tighten down on it that it counts one time per month.

I do agree that basing it on unique listeners is a good idea of you want to measure popularity, but how would you combat the people who make multiple accounts?