IVE thought they were going to run the joint, but then New Jeans came along with the one-two combination of "Hype Boy" and "Ditto,"

    ... and knocked the living daylights out of them. Reminds me when Puff Daddy was thinking he was running shit, but when Tupac got out of jail and signed with Death Row, that motherfucker went running and hiding like a little bitch, and only Biggie died did that motherfucker take the opportunity to capitalize on his "friend's" death.


    IVE better wish for some kind of momentum-changing, seismic shift, cause NewJeans running shit from now on. IVE is like Fredo, and NewJeans coming in like Michael Corleone with the fucking savvy and know-how and thoughtfulness.


    Ryan Jhun ain't the fucking godfather, that motherfucker was just a poor hitman. Min Heejin working the undercurrents.

    Why would I've need a seismic shift or momentum shift. When they are also successful? Not just music and album sales but overall popularity of the members. They get projects in as being MCs, having their poster in streets for products and other means of exposure? So I don't get what you mean when they are also everywhere in Korea not just musically but as brand ambassadors and appearance in variety shows

  • AllKill VIP

    You have IVE being the first GG since SISTAR to score 2 top 10 year end hits in a calendar year and becoming million sellers with a single album, and people are still undermining their success (?)


    Reckon in a few months everyone will start switching on NewJeans for Baemon and everyone will be *surprise Pikachu face* as if people weren't predicting it months in advance

    It is insane the amount of success stans New Jeans have right now. The way some people are acting you would think they are the only group in all of kpop releasing good music when that is far from the case. People gravitate towards successful things regardless of subjective quality. I know I am about to see a repeat of this with Babymonster and the unknown girl group from Hybe again (they still have the global girl group debuting this year). If anything about the Itzy-Aespa-IVE-New Jeans flip flopping bandwagon stanning has taught me is to let the hype ride out.

    Quote from n_u_g_u

    It is insane the amount of success stans New Jeans have right now. The way some people are acting you would think they are the only group in all of kpop releasing good music when that is far from the case. People gravitate towards successful things regardless of subjective quality. I know I am about to see a repeat of this with Babymonster and the unknown girl group from Hybe again (they still have the global girl group debuting this year). If anything about the Itzy-Aespa-IVE-New Jeans flip flopping bandwagon stanning has taught me is to let the hype ride out.

    And this isn’t the first time in august people were all over NJ and would made threads questioning if IVE deserved ROTY.

    they haven’t cb yet and people already act as if they were over :angryr: It’s ridiculous and really annoying

  • AllKill VIP
    Quote from nana18

    Newjeans fans are sounding just like Mys and Dive few months ago, when Baby monster will debut you guys will change narrative and won't be talking about Newjeans anymore i thought that 3 gen stans were annoying but you guys are worse you only care about the curent number 1 group

    LOL. 3rd Gen fans were the exact same way, when we used to argue over the top girl group of the generation.


    Don't make this a 4th gen only thing. All K-Pop fans do this. There has always been an obsession over who the top is.


    And even before 3rd gen, the Sones vs. Blackjack wars were fierce.

    Quote from n_u_g_u

    It is insane the amount of success stans New Jeans have right now. The way some people are acting you would think they are the only group in all of kpop releasing good music when that is far from the case. People gravitate towards successful things regardless of subjective quality. I know I am about to see a repeat of this with Babymonster and the unknown girl group from Hybe again (they still have the global girl group debuting this year). If anything about the Itzy-Aespa-IVE-New Jeans flip flopping bandwagon stanning has taught me is to let the hype ride out.

    itzy hype run out because they don't have a proper hit girl, their overal visuals were overhyped and after the novelty period craze people just saw more clear and also because their group synergy and their voices are meh.


    aespa hype run out because their music was actually meh (they're not dead uh, with a GOOD song they could come back strong) and they don't have a leading visual/hit girl. (Like Yoona, Krystal or Irene)


    Ive hype is running out because the group again has no synergy and because they can barely sing a note, it's like Twice storyline but accelarated in a spin of a year or somth. (Twice were much better performers tho and they had a good energy.)

    They are popular because they are a bunch of pretty girls gatheted togheter but beauty is not enough to last in the industry. Pretty girls debut every year. Their music is getting repetitive and their director has no clear vision for them. NJ freshness just exposed how mostly basic they actually were from the start.


    ON THE OTHER HAND, NJ has everything. The visuals, the talents, the synergy, the vision and the music. Unless MHJ gives them repetitive flop songs and with a repetitive concepts i don't see them failing. I think they are just starting growing and might become this gens real superstars. Break bounderies SNSD and BP couldn’t.


    And i would like to add that however BMonsters do doesn’t really matter. They look like they will go the clssic YG hip hop style. Which could maybe be a bit repetitive for gp since they had that for seven years already with BP. But I don’t think NJ's freshness can be over shadowed. Not even by yg rookies.


    Yup.

  • AllKill VIP


    Don't you have a Winter badge? Proving my point even further. And dogpiling on these girl groups was not my intention but that gave you your big chance. And again everything in music and beauty is subjective. There is no objectivity in what you say.

  • AllKill VIP
    Quote from YamaChwan

    LOL. 3rd Gen fans were the exact same way, when we used to argue over the top girl group of the generation.


    Don't make this a 4th gen only thing. All K-Pop fans do this. There has always been an obsession over who the top is.


    And even before 3rd gen, the Sones vs. Blackjack wars were fierce.

    3rd gen fans were not hopping from girl group to girl group depending on which one was trendier at the time which is what that user is trying to say.

    Quote from n_u_g_u

    Don't you have a Winter badge? Proving my point even further. And dogpiling on these girl groups was not my intention but that gave you your big chance. And again everything in music and beauty is subjective. There is no objectivity in what you say.

    No it doesn’t. I never liked aespa. I just like Winter (because of her voice and because she is cute) and maybe NingNing. I just like talent and im a voice lover. But aespa's music is a NOPE for me. And i don't like tough girl concept as well. So that's it.


    Well im not trying to be mean, that's just my opinion on these groups and why they lost hype. It's not because they did that everyone else also will. And i explained why i think they did.


    I try to be as objective as possible but I could be wrong tho, that's just my opinion on what I think happened.

    Quote from itiswhatitisss

    3rd gen fans were not hopping from girl group to girl group depending on which one was trendier at the time which is what that user is trying to say.

    What is the objective measurement of this? Or it Just anecdotal experiences and a general vibe?


    Because I keep seeing this being repeated, but see no evidence that there are any more success stans now than there were in the previous generation.


    Aespa sold plenty of albums. Itzy sold plenty of albums. LE SSERAFIM sold plenty of albums. IVE just won a bunch of daesangs and sold out a concert in a minute.


    Seems like their fans stuck around to me.


    I'm 110% positive I could go find an archived Twice/RV/BP/MMM/GF discussion and find the exact same things being said then.


    People need to stop assuming the same group of people praising Group A are the same group of people now praising Group B. If you feel otherwise...is there any proof?

    It has nothing to do with success. Itzy were hyped and liked then Aespa came out and people started dragging Itzy then the same thing happened with aespa, Stan’s are acting they’re over and now for some reason IVE is getting hated and the same ones drag IVE to praise NJ and LSR

    You just have to look at there lol.

    Blinks and onces fight all the time but they don’t flip flop every time a new group pop up.

    Quote from bluebird1984

    No it doesn’t. I never liked aespa. I just like Winter (because of her voice and because she is cute) and maybe NingNing. I just like talent and im a voice lover. But aespa's music is a NOPE for me. And i don't like tough girl concept as well. So that's it.


    Well im not trying to be mean, that's just my opinion on these groups and why they lost hype. It's not because they did that everyone else also will. And i explained why i think they did. I could be wrong tho, that's just my opinion on what I think happened.

    Well you’re out of touch

  • AllKill VIP

    The topic is about success stans, not actual stans :skull:


    Okay then go find one, I'll be waiting. But as someone who actually lived through the 3rd gen, success stanning en masse (at least to the extent 4th gen stans are doing it now) was never a thing. You had Twice dominating everything 2016-2018 and then Blackpink dominating everything 2020-present so it was never an issue.

    Now there's a new GG doing well on charts & breaking records every other month which prompts more success stans, more people jumping from group to group. It's not that hard to understand really.

    so many assumptions about snsd and especially about bp lol

    I'm not a big fan of all 4th gen girl groups but are you really implying they don't have good visuals?

    most of them have attractive members I don't think the visual part is even a problem if anything WY has the advantage with being an it girl something other 4th gen girl groups don't have and newjeans are more girl next door more relatable type of looks .

    All the things u mention are things people have point out about nj too


    All this overlap for every gf, Korea got yeji 1 in brand ranking when itzy debut, they loved aespa 2n gen like music with next level and Ive not being able to sing is smth that start pretty recently as they didn't have criticisms for them (aside from Liz weight) but u know why all that change?bc they move from one group to another


    This applies to other GG's too, they love gidle making their own music but then disliking them for soyeon diss or appearing cocky, they love stayc music that bep did but then find it boring


    Eveybody got their time to be sparkly and new ond then... They weren't and thats where the problem start

    Quote from itiswhatitisss

    The topic is about success stans, not actual stans :skull:


    Okay then go find one, I'll be waiting. But as someone who actually lived through the 3rd gen, success stanning en masse (at least to the extent 4th gen stans are doing it now) was never a thing. You had Twice dominating everything 2016-2018 and then Blackpink dominating everything 2020-present so it was never an issue.

    Now there's a new GG doing well on charts & breaking records every other month which prompts more success stans, more people jumping from group to group. It's not that hard to understand really.

    I started listening to K-Pop in 2012, so I was present for every last second of the 3rd generation that didn't really start until 2 years later.


    You do realize that BlackPink, Twice, Mamamoo, GFriend and IOI all got Perfect All-Kills in the same year, right? 2016 to be exact. So uh, yeah, a different girl group did well on the charts every other month.


    Oh, and Twice/BlackPink did not dominate everything. People need to stop revising history and throwing around blanket statements like that. Twice didn't have the biggest hit song in 2017 or 2018. That was Red Velvet and BlackPink respectively.


    In hindsight, it's very easy to say Twice and BlackPink indisputably reigned supreme in their respective peak years, but if you actually lived through it like you say, you'd remember the weekly, if not daily, vitriolic exchanges that happened between the fandoms, each claiming superiority over the other. And yeah, people were being called success stans then too.


    There is literally nothing hard to understand about your point, so stop treating this as a comprehension issue when it isn't. All I asked for is literally any evidence of 4th gen fans stanning success anymore than 3rd gen did.


    And I'm still waiting for it.


    Or is it just that anyone who praises a new girl group and calls them the next biggest thing in K-Pop is going to immediately be branded a success stan?

    are you that mamamoo stan? now it all makes sense

    Quote from killthisfenty

    It has nothing to do with success. Itzy were hyped and liked then Aespa came out and people started dragging Itzy then the same thing happened with aespa, Stan’s are acting they’re over and now for some reason IVE is getting hated and the same ones drag IVE to praise NJ and LSR

    You just have to look at there lol.

    Blinks and onces fight all the time but they don’t flip flop every time a new group pop up.

    That's a function of how the industry has changed moreso than the fans.


    Itzy, Aespa, IVE and NewJeans all have one thing in common. All four had massive debuts.


    If the top girl groups of the 3rd generation all debuted like that, the exact same things we see now would've happened then. Success stans hopping to the shiny new toy isn't a new phenomenon.


    Twice, Red Velvet, Mamamoo and GFriend didn't debut smashing records and topping the charts. Pretty much only BlackPink did that, and Day 1 you had fans calling them the biggest thing in K-Pop and the future....kind of how fans today do with the big debuts of today's top girl groups.

    Quote from Slayurfaves

    are you that mamamoo stan? now it all makes sense

    Which one? There are more of us than you think.


    If you mean the one who was extremely vocal, posted a bunch of praise threads on OH, started a youtube account to create content for them, and always defended Mamamoo in girl group tier discussions, then yes, that's me.

    Novelty is a factor that matters of course, but i would on like to add that " Time only reveals what you mean to someone". And quality (in terms of visuals, music, synergy, vision etc) is what really matters to survive the hype.


    For example, LSFM didn’t get buried because NJ debuted. It's because they have quality. In terms of talent, music and synergy.

    If Itzy was a quality group, they could have been at the top with aespa. GP just didn’t like Itzy anymore. Their decline happened before Next Level craze.


    After the new SM and JYP rookies debut which were hyped mostly because of their compagny their quality was just not good enough to survive past the novelty factor.

    But i think NJ quality is excellent (for a pop group). They fill all the cases exeptionally well, from visuals to talents to music etc.


    I already mentioned what i found lacking in these groups. Itzy is a lost cause because the group as a whole is just not good enough in terms of beauty and talent. But with good music aespa can still do pretty well. Maybe not be the leader but still.


    And IVE needs hit songs (really catchy music) to keep on going, their group power is too weak otherwise. With a bad or mediocre song, they could just tank.

    I think their bubble will pop at some point just like Twice bubble did. I don’t wish it per say, i just think that's what is likely to happen. (It might have started already with that sitted lip synking accidnent.)

  • AllKill VIP

    Twice still had the best-selling girl group album of those respective years alongside doing extremely well on digital charts in addition to being the highest GG on Gallup both years so yes they were still number one. But that's besides my point.


    And obviously not but there's a massive difference between getting into Itzy, Stayc, Aespa, IVE, NewJeans, all while ignoring and bashing the each group in the event of an underperformance, in the span of one or two years and simply saying a group's success is impressive.

    Too many people sleeping on LE SSERAFIM. Maybe because there's resistance to acknowledging that only another HYBE girl group will be serious competition to NewJeans long-term?


    They could end up being the biggest rivals to NJ. They already have started to take the title of best performers of their generation and sold a bunch of albums. ANTIFRAGILE is a hit too.


    Quote from itiswhatitisss

    Twice still had the best-selling girl group album of those respective years alongside doing extremely well on digital charts in addition to being the highest GG on Gallup both years so yes they were still number one. But that's besides my point.


    And obviously not but there's a massive difference between getting into Itzy, Stayc, Aespa, IVE, NewJeans, all while ignoring and bashing the each group in the event of an underperformance, in the span of one or two years and simply saying a group's success is impressive.

    Twice sold more albums than anyone in those years. They did not dominate digitally relative to other top girl groups after 2016 (which was still hotly debated even then). That's all I'm saying.


    Moving on, I promise you that success stanning happened all the time in third generation too. Take the words of a very passionate Mamamoo fan since their debut year to heart.


    But basically I don't think success stanning is a generation thing. It's an opportunity thing. There wasn't a ton of room for it in 3rd gen, because our favorite groups had to build up to the dominance they became known for. Hell, I remember Twice getting roasted on OH initially, because LOA was a grower instead of an instant smash hit.


    With groups debuting with monster numbers, it's much easier for success stans to latch on to groups than before.

    Quote from Slayurfaves

    so many assumptions about snsd and especially about bp lol

    I'm not a big fan of all 4th gen girl groups but are you really implying they don't have good visuals?

    most of them have attractive members I don't think the visual part is even a problem if anything WY has the advantage with being an it girl something other 4th gen girl groups don't have and newjeans are more girl next door more relatable type of looks .

    wdym? what i meant was that 2023 is not the 10's. A new gen has more openess to the world and more exposure just like BP did over SNSD because of difference of generation.

    Also because i think MHJ music quality might be what could possibly make kpop break through in the west. :/


    i disagree. Their debut styling and their youth may have given you that impression but all of them are top tier beauties.

    And yes i do think that Yuna doesn’t live up to Tzuyu's level nor does Karina to Yoona or Irene. They're still pretty but not up there in my opinion. :wellr:

    I don’t understand how it turned if Twice was leading or not. They actually did anyway they were #1 in digital and sales. lol that’s not even the point of the thread.

    no one sleep on LSR they’re the most loved gg along with NJ.

    Quote from bluebird1984

    wdym? what i meant was that 2023 is not the 10's. A new gen has more openess to the world and more exposure just like BP did over SNSD because of difference of generation.

    Also because i think MHJ music quality might be what could possibly make kpop break through in the west. :/


    i disagree. Their debut styling and their youth may have given you that impression but all of them are top tier beauties.

    And yes i do think that Yuna doesn’t live up to Tzuyu's level nor does Karina to Yoona or Irene. They're still pretty but not up there in my opinion. :wellr:

    I don’t get you say ive only rely on their visuals then say Karina and Yuna dont match their seniors which has nothing to do with their group success anyway you absolutely make no sense.

    Quote from YamaChwan

    LOL. 3rd Gen fans were the exact same way, when we used to argue over the top girl group of the generation.


    Don't make this a 4th gen only thing. All K-Pop fans do this. There has always been an obsession over who the top is.


    And even before 3rd gen, the Sones vs. Blackjack wars were fierce.

    Yeah no with the 3 gen groups popularity didn't last for just one comeback and then the fans moved on the new shiny toy

    Quote from nana18

    Yeah no with the 3 gen groups popularity didn't last for just one comeback and then the fans moved on the new shiny toy

    I think there's some false equivocation going on here, but I'm tired of going in circles.


    I just ask you to actually read what I typed, all of it, next time you quote me. I'll return to this later, if I feel like it's worth the time. Gotta go :-)

    girl what are u talking about


    U don't think get what I'm saying

    Novelity gave this groups a untouchable sense that they have while they were fresh as that "freshness" wore off so their untouchable feeling


    And again groups don't chart bcs of quality, if that was the case wjan couldn't be anygu group

    Quote from killthisfenty

    I don’t get you say ive only rely on their visuals then say Karina and Yuna dont match their seniors which has nothing to do with their group success anyway you absolutely make no sense.

    Well i already explained so...

    Basically only beauty is not enough, but beauty is also part of the whole package. And Yes it matters, specially for SM ggs, and most ggs in genral. And for Koreans. They were extatic when Itzy debuted but as time went by and their novelty factor run ou they started criticising Itzy's looks as a group. Since Itzy doesn’t have much vocal abilities, their reliance on visuals are even more important.

    Also Wonyoung is a good proof of it since she is carrying her group. And being a hit girl brings light to Ive.

    more than novelty, it's the fact that they have a national hit that gave them this feeling.

    Like aespa debuted with BM and then came back with forever and only became huge with Next Level.Basically they build themselves, it was not an instant explosion in term of success.


    Yes they do as long as they have proper promotion with a big compagny backing them up. Quality matters to last. You can make it without much quality riding on the novelty factor with a big compagny behind like Itzy did, but today you won't last if you don't bring quality with it because of competition and gps standarts.

    That's why LSFM stands their ground near NJ while Ive looks rather tacky.


    What im saying is that you can maintain the hype if you bring quality. For example if aespa had a good song instead of Girls they would have maintained their hype if not even get bigger. Simple. They would have but heads for the leader position with Ive but not lost their hype.


    So there was a reason why these ggs lost their hype. It was not just out of the blue moon and because new ggs debuted. Its because something was lacking in them.


    For example, the light seems to be on NJ right now, but regardless if they are leaders or not, Ive and LSFM will be very fine if they bring quality music. Now if they don't specially Ive, then they coumd become like Itzy or aespa. If you get what I mean. From not being leader to become a flop because the novelty factor worn out it's veryy different.

    Quote from itiswhatitisss

    You have IVE being the first GG since SISTAR to score 2 top 10 year end hits in a calendar year and becoming million sellers with a single album, and people are still undermining their success (?)


    Reckon in a few months everyone will start switching on NewJeans for Baemon and everyone will be *surprise Pikachu face* as if people weren't predicting it months in advance

    they already are starting to, that one pann post where they're questioning newjeans' actual popularity... they're not immune

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