people who don't see the problem with minor debuting are fked up

wow, so judgmental. I think it's wrong to discriminate against minors. they're people too.

for me
sometimes we don't need to interfere for some simple problem like that

it their life choice to debut at young age
afterall some successful career start at young age

being young also an advantage to some idols
you got the attention as being the maknae of the group

also I bet if Newjeans debut 2-3 yrs later

they charm and youthful aura will never standout

how many of these stars who became popular at a young age would say "if I could start all over again, I'd rather be a normie working a normal job"?

how many would speak this way because of all the messy stuff that potentially comes with being a celebrity?

I don't think there would be many

imo these people live more fulfilling lives than the average joe, they know it and they wouldn't trade it for anything despite the hardships

Quote from icyruios

I feel like it's even worse if majority of the group are minors

It doesn't feel as bad if say the oldest in the group is an adult or is experiences. Like for example Leeseo and Eunchae are really young but they have Wonyoung/Yujin and Sakura/Chaewon who have at least 2+ years of experience to take care of them.

Still think it's bad though overall

But how reliable are the other members ? I've heard many stories where the youngest idol and the oldest idol barley talk because of the age difference, beside i bet this older idols have their fair share of problems that the deal with.

Regarding the debut age i don't think there is anything to be done about it, but there should be some laws to protect them.

Quote from icyruios

I feel like it's even worse if majority of the group are minors

It doesn't feel as bad if say the oldest in the group is an adult or is experiences. Like for example Leeseo and Eunchae are really young but they have Wonyoung/Yujin and Sakura/Chaewon who have at least 2+ years of experience to take care of them.

Still think it's bad though overall

Quote from icyruios

I feel at least for IVE/LSFM it should be better, considering that Eunbi has been such a great leader for IZ*ONE (you can see the interactions between them and Eunbi post IZ*ONE it's as if Eunbi was their mother for 2 years or something)

And with Yujin and Chaewon being the respective groups' leaders, they are better equipped to deal with all these stuff.

Comparatively, a new group especially if majority are minors, it's going to be harsh. At least for now it doesn't seem like say NJs (they are the first group that came to my mind with a group full of minors) are getting as much hate as say Wonyoung or Leeseo based on what I've seen recently

i actually think it’s rather the opposite: when a group has mostly 18+ idols with only 1-2 minor members, their concept usually tends to make the maknaes seem older than they are to fit with the rest of the group’s more mature vibe, meaning people tend to be more vicious with their comments and less hesitant in dishing out vitriol hate bc they simply forget how young the minor idol is. Yuna was freaking 15 at itzy’s debut but she didn’t look like it at all, and as a result she’s received a huge amount of hate even to this day - people had no consideration for her young age whatsoever; the leader of the group being older doesn’t really have much impact. Same case with yeri who’s in a group with a leader 8 years her senior but still received so much hate from trashy people.

Whereas in nj’s case, since their whole concept focuses extensively on how young they all are and portrays them as true kids doing kids stuff, it’s instead had the effect of drawing out protective tendencies from adult fans and in a way shielded them from getting excessive hate that minor idols in a group with a more mature concept might get. You have to be a monster to dish out hate to a group that’s all just kids acting like kids lol I definitely think their very young-looking concept has somewhat acted as a deterrent against hate comments.

Now the potential harms that could come from within the industry is another matter tho; we simply have to hope that the adults around them don’t take advantage of them, whether their management or parents or other personnel

Quote from bartkun

NBA dream for a high school kid?

this is kind of like Korean kid participating in auditions to k-pop label

road is way too long because early high school year, then you need to go through college career, and then you will go to NBA... you need to be exceptional talent like Kobe, Lebron, Dwight Howard or Tracy McGrady to make a debut when you are under 19 years old...

this is kind of similar story to what happens when you become SM, YG or JYP trainee, and sometimes you train there for 6-7 years just to suddenly learn that you won't make a cut to debuting group

by that football/soccer is easier because if someone sees you they will use you or buy you asap.

here you have list of 16,17,18, 19 year old kids which are already making waves in their countries/leagues

https://www.goal.com/en/lists/…329005#cs125c9c3738442e21

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in the west we have several laws against child work. The jobs you can do younger than 14 are strongly limited. And for teenagers there are clear limits about their work hours. So shoting an mv for 10-16 hours would lead to the companies not be able to debute minors or are forced to shot the mv in the future on 2 days and double the costs in many cases.

Some better laws to protect minors would make sense imo.

We will allways debute minors since Kpop focus on youth. But we can make rules to give them better protection.

I dont need minors in Kpop but the majority of of fans are younger and they demand similar aged Idols.

The discussion re children in the entertainment sector and children working various jobs -- it's complex given each situation and what country you are in. There is a lot of nuances that are overlooked here..

Re international law and in most countries, it's encourage that children go to school first. However, it IS not illegal globally for children to work with specific conditions: age, priority on education first, type of job - age appropriate and not dangerous etc., parental supervision, limited hours etc.

Most children can and do work after school for a few hours as long as parents consent and it doesn't interfere with school and their safety. Many teens do get part time jobs after school or on weekends according to this, including me back in high school - I was working in fast food restaurants for half-days on the weekends and babysitting/cutting grass some days after school. In reality -- many children do help their families with various type of part time jobs. Most countries with good system will also have the child protection agencies and welfare unit to look after various cases to prevent exploiting children for work.

The grey area here is that re the entertainment industry, it's too 'hush hush' and there is no good monitoring of the work conditions because most of the time stage parents are too eager to please the directors or the higher power people in the industry and they have the mindset that this is how the industry is and what we have to do to achieve success. It's the industry that has to change and be more transparent re teens as trainees and idols.

Quote from Alex_Murphy

how many of these stars who became popular at a young age would say "if I could start all over again, I'd rather be a normie working a normal job"?

how many would speak this way because of all the messy stuff that potentially comes with being a celebrity?

I don't think there would be many

imo these people live more fulfilling lives than the average joe, they know it and they wouldn't trade it for anything despite the hardships

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Bc too many of them cannot think there could be another kinda of life. Since they entered entertainment Industry, being a celebrity all they mentally think there is to life.

When they start losing some of their popularity in early 20s, they mostly fall into depression bc they believe their life is over.

This isn't just unique to kpop, look at child stars in Hollywood or any other country. The pattern is the same.

like Ves said, the first step is to acknowledge there is a problem even if we don't have a solution.

But too many people deny that there is a problem to begin with.

Quote from nana18

But how reliable are the other members ? I've heard many stories where the youngest idol and the oldest idol barley talk because of the age difference, beside i bet this older idols have their fair share of problems that the deal with.

Regarding the debut age i don't think there is anything to be done about it, but there should be some laws to protect them.

Quote from icyruios

I feel at least for IVE/LSFM it should be better, considering that Eunbi has been such a great leader for IZ*ONE (you can see the interactions between them and Eunbi post IZ*ONE it's as if Eunbi was their mother for 2 years or something)

And with Yujin and Chaewon being the respective groups' leaders, they are better equipped to deal with all these stuff.

Comparatively, a new group especially if majority are minors, it's going to be harsh. At least for now it doesn't seem like say NJs (they are the first group that came to my mind with a group full of minors) are getting as much hate as say Wonyoung or Leeseo based on what I've seen recently

Relying on the leader, is like putting undue stress and responsibility on another person who is barely an adult them.

Quote from Lulu_Key

Relying on the leader, is like putting undue stress and responsibility on another person who is barely an adult them.

I totally agree with this putting in charge idols to take care of other idols is similar to how parents put the eldest in charge of the youngest

Quote from nana18

I totally agree with this putting in charge idols to take care of other idols is similar to how parents put the eldest in charge of the youngest

15 years later Taemin and Key still feel guilty toward what they did to Onew and how they made him take care of them when they were young.

It doesn't turn out well for any of them

I don't stan Lesserafim only because they have Eunchae in the group and only solo stanning few Izone members because they have few minors. I really dislike the ideas of some kpop fans that thought it's okay for this groups over that groups with minors just because they have someone older or experienced to justify why they stan that group. It's still fuck up.

Ive for example, yes they have wy and yujin but these two is not even 20. They can't even protecting their selfs from the predators, how do you expect them to protect the other members when they still a child themselves? Lsf too, Sakura and Chaewon don't have any power to shield Eunchae from the industry because you see what happen to Garam, no one can save her for all the malicious comments. Nmixx? Kyujin being pushed as a center when she's still a minor and the youngest in her group. So, you don't have any arguments why any of these groups better than the other groups with minor. All are disgusting and terrible.

If you stan a group with minor, don't be hypocrite and acts like an angel with criticised the industry when you, yourself supporting the ideas and making a lot of excuses to justify why it's not wrong to stan the group when in the reality, you're as disgusting. You're the reason why company keep debuting underage children because they know, a lot of stupid brainless kpop stans will keep supporting and protect them no matter what.

Quote from SooYoung

Yeah because all of you can't even seen all the fucked up things who happen behind the scene

and because most of you became kpop fans in 3rd gen and 4th gen, you aren't following 2nd gen idols so you are not aware of all their testimony about the impact it had on them on the long term to debut at such a young age

For example when SNSD debuted seohyun, the youngest was 15-16 years old, which is already older than most idols debuting right now

and SNSD have always been very vocal about the impaact ddebuting at such a young age had on them

- Some of them are still seeing therapist in their 30s because of the impact on their mental health idol career had on them

- their therapist told them that it feel that they are stuck in time and still feel as high schooler because when you're an idol everything in their life is manage by their company etc... so they never lean to ddo basic things that young people learn through the time like booking a solo trip themselves

- they had some crazy schedules so they drinked so much caffeine/energy drinks to look awake and energetic during all their schedules to the point that they shaked at night and had insomnia

- they talk about how a male senior used their position to get their numbers, harassed them and threaten them if they spoke about it

- Taeyeon talked about how someone older that she never met before got her number and used to harassed her, by sending her text, gift, drunk calling her and even threaten her when she said that she was tired of him harassing her

I'm sorry but people who are always complaining about other kpop fans who are questionning the fact of debuting minor idols are fked up because they can't even see the real impact than the idol career had on idols who weren't all minor when they debuted, so just imagine what it would be for minor idols

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Yeah No

the Korean Government needs to put something in place to only where trainees of a certian age can debut and anything below it is illegal

seeing Baby monster Debut with a 13 year old is really concerning

Newjeans is a full of Minors

it just worries me that if nothing is done what will become of future generations and the safety of these young children

Quote from SooYoung

to be honest the government should make laws to make only people at the age of 18 debut

after taking a psychological test, to see if they'll be able to handle the pressure and the amount of work it will take and if they really understand where they are going

and then make monthly psychological exam, to be able to determinate quicker when an idol is dealing with depression or else

and also limited the amount of hours trainee can train in agency so they can still have a normal life while training to be idols but without having much impact on their school life

So Smart!

Quick, lets all start sending letters to Yoon Suk Yeol

maybe it will work, ya never know lmao

Quote from SooYoung

to be honest the government should make laws to make only people at the age of 18 debut

after taking a psychological test, to see if they'll be able to handle the pressure and the amount of work it will take and if they really understand where they are going

and then make monthly psychological exam, to be able to determinate quicker when an idol is dealing with depression or else

and also limited the amount of hours trainee can train in agency so they can still have a normal life while training to be idols but without having much impact on their school life

I think the bigger problem is that some of them were training since they were 8-9 years old. They shouldn't be worrying about ambition or career at that age.

Quote from Bananapple

I don't stan Lesserafim only because they have Eunchae in the group and only solo stanning few Izone members because they have few minors. I really dislike the ideas of some kpop fans that thought it's okay for this groups over that groups with minors just because they have someone older or experienced to justify why they stan that group. It's still fuck up.

Ive for example, yes they have wy and yujin but these two is not even 20. They can't even protecting their selfs from the predators, how do you expect them to protect the other members when they still a child themselves? Lsf too, Sakura and Chaewon don't have any power to shield Eunchae from the industry because you see what happen to Garam, no one can save her for all the malicious comments. Nmixx? Kyujin being pushed as a center when she's still a minor and the youngest in her group. So, you don't have any arguments why any of these groups better than the other groups with minor. All are disgusting and terrible.

If you stan a group with minor, don't be hypocrite and acts like an angel with criticised the industry when you, yourself supporting the ideas and making a lot of excuses to justify why it's not wrong to stan the group when in the reality, you're as disgusting. You're the reason why company keep debuting underage children because they know, a lot of stupid brainless kpop stans will keep supporting and protect them no matter what.

Im older so i refuse to watch all these new groups. It make me feel uneasy to watch the kids acting sexy.

But im a minority. most fans are as young or even younger then the minor artists.

And as much as im more drawn to Idols my age the kids are also more drawn to Idols their age.

I wonder how can we protect minor artists without alienating Kpop from their main audience?

Quote from Bananapple

I don't stan Lesserafim only because they have Eunchae in the group and only solo stanning few Izone members because they have few minors. I really dislike the ideas of some kpop fans that thought it's okay for this groups over that groups with minors just because they have someone older or experienced to justify why they stan that group. It's still fuck up.

Ive for example, yes they have wy and yujin but these two is not even 20. They can't even protecting their selfs from the predators, how do you expect them to protect the other members when they still a child themselves? Lsf too, Sakura and Chaewon don't have any power to shield Eunchae from the industry because you see what happen to Garam, no one can save her for all the malicious comments. Nmixx? Kyujin being pushed as a center when she's still a minor and the youngest in her group. So, you don't have any arguments why any of these groups better than the other groups with minor. All are disgusting and terrible.

If you stan a group with minor, don't be hypocrite and acts like an angel with criticised the industry when you, yourself supporting the ideas and making a lot of excuses to justify why it's not wrong to stan the group when in the reality, you're as disgusting. You're the reason why company keep debuting underage children because they know, a lot of stupid brainless kpop stans will keep supporting and protect them no matter what.

i really dislike the tone of this post... i think its wrong to lump all older stans together when some of us genuinely are only here for music and general aesthetics. its wrong to point an accusatory finger at the older stans of today as the reason companies still debut minors because literally almost every kpop stan stans a group where the youngest member(s) debuted as a minor. many 2nd gen groups many 3rd gen groups. even if you didn't stan them when they were minors you're still supporting a group that debuted a minor. you're still actively supporting a industry that will continue to debut minors regardless of all these discussions. the industry needs a real reform. we all know that. for adult idols and minor idols alike. but shaming and alienating older fans and blanketing the term disgusting over everyone who dares to like the music of a group with young members isn't the first step for that reform.

it feels like some of y'all have some moral superiority complex over this like you're not still contributing to the same industry yourself.... i agree people below the age of 16 turning 17 should not be debuting in kpop with the way the culture is. people can be critical of things they still like, you know. but as others have mentioned we should also take into account some of these groups are not being marketed at adults. the companies aren't protecting them enough from adults, yes, but they're trying to appeal to teen fans. i mean, i'm the same age as jungkook and i started stanning bts when they debuted. we were both 15. i grew up with the group. this is the type of fan kpop companies want. long term/dedicated fans that stick around throughout the group's entire life (which is what a lot of korean fandoms are made of). the nuances of these situations gets lost when you erase an individual and apply your rhetoric to everyone despite their differences.

Quote from aclassyteaparty

i really dislike the tone of this post... i think its wrong to lump all older stans together when some of us genuinely are only here for music and general aesthetics. its wrong to point an accusatory finger at the older stans of today as the reason companies still debut minors because literally almost every kpop stan stans a group where the youngest member(s) debuted as a minor. many 2nd gen groups many 3rd gen groups. even if you didn't stan them when they were minors you're still supporting a group that debuted a minor. you're still actively supporting a industry that will continue to debut minors regardless of all these discussions. the industry needs a real reform. we all know that. for adult idols and minor idols alike. but shaming and alienating older fans and blanketing the term disgusting over everyone who dares to like the music of a group with young members isn't the first step for that reform.

it feels like some of y'all have some moral superiority complex over this like you're not still contributing to the same industry yourself.... i agree people below the age of 16 turning 17 should not be debuting in kpop with the way the culture is. people can be critical of things they still like, you know. but as others have mentioned we should also take into account some of these groups are not being marketed at adults. the companies aren't protecting them enough from adults, yes, but they're trying to appeal to teen fans. i mean, i'm the same age as jungkook and i started stanning bts when they debuted. we were both 15. i grew up with the group. this is the type of fan kpop companies want. long term/dedicated fans that stick around throughout the group's entire life (which is what a lot of korean fandoms are made of). the nuances of these situations gets lost when you erase an individual and apply your rhetoric to everyone despite their differences.

Here the example of my post, thank you.

I listen to Lsf and Ive too, but I won't using any of their minors pics in my social media as my profile picture for example. And I'm here for their music. We all kpop fans, when we stanning a group it's not about only music anymore, we all know that. You're attached to the members of the group, right? If not, you wouldn't used their pics anywhere when you know they're still minor when you're not. It's weird. Common sense, please.

I understand many older generation debuted as a minor. Many people back then didn't aware how terrible it is. So, why not we we slowly change that. You want to listen to their songs, go on. Their music is good afterall. But if you already using their pics here, I don't really take you seriously as someone who in just because of music, lol.

I've had to talk 15 year olds out of becoming trainees, and that's 15.

If adults are saying that they need their head checked, but I'm not gonna expect a 13 year old that just found out about kpop because ''omg girls my age are famous and rich I wanna do that'' to understand, that's pretty much the same as any other type of influence young kids try to emulate.

I do think we need to remember and shed light on the fact that the younger the idols/influencers are, the younger their fanbase usually is(Look at tiktok and instagram influencers). And do you know who tends to get recruited to become trainees when recruitment happens?

Young fans. It's not just a problem for the minors debuting, but this is actively preparing/normalizing young teens and preteens being in this industry. it will get younger than preteen unless there's regulation and an age limit on debuting outside of kid groups made for a fucking tv ad.(to which there are a lot of those, too)

Also adults love to scream and point out that child actors exist and shit to justify it as if we haven't seen the damage done to child actors. They just don't want their ''the world is good and perfect no one abuses children'' bubble popped. Yeah some are probably pedos but a lot would rather just pretend like nothing bad happens ever, it's extremely common now. The public closing it's eyes and plugging it's ears is absolutely not helping the situation

edit: And fuck the parents fuck stage parents fuck parents treating their children like piggy banks at the cost of the child's physical and mental development that will later be demonized by society when they end up having issues because their development got completely derailed and people don't understand how important that is.

Quote from K-Pop-Scientist

I think the issue is having some kind of regulation or protection for kids, you have to ask yourself do they all grow up f-d up or is it a minority? Someone here mentioned Jungkook debuted at 15, he's ok right. Do we have info on younger idols debuting and how it turned out for them mentally speaking. Someone needs to do that study and act on that. The child actor argument just plays into the thought if you are against minors then you should be against minors in entertainment generally. Are you going to remove the chance from talented kids?

The problem is how can you ensure the non-abuse, or parents using them to make money... maybe an age limit is the right thing for idols but 16 - that's still very young to be sent into this life, look what happened to Garam just a horrific hate campaign she will be mentally scarred for life.

I will only entertain you if you don't pull this nonsense that it's only a minority when literally everyone is human and develops the same. I don't know if you're a child, but 13 year old we'll name A is not going to be magically more physically developed brain or body wise than 13 year old B. That is not how child development works. There are reasons we literally have child labor banned, it's not because some deem it wrong for the lolz. There's plenty of evidence why this is fucked up and wrong on so many levels.

Advocating for a child to give up their education for work that they literally could not consent at, at 12 is advocating for a child to give up their future for child labor. 16 is working part time age everywhere so idols/entertainers should be subjected to the same laws, they shouldn't be any different.

There is a difference between working a part time job as a teenager and being in the entertainment industry as a minor.

Kpop specifically demands that their trainees and idols diet constantly, work over sleep, endure mental abuse, and sometimes even physical abuse. This is prevalent in all entertainment industries in all countries but aren’t openly institutionalized like in kpop. This all affects the physical and mental growth of children. Children aren’t adults because their body and brains don’t stop growing until after 20. Having all that abuse coming at you during such a pivotal stage can stunt your growth mentally and physically. Well adjusted adults that had a career as a child celebrities are the exceptions, not the rule. Kpop fans should learn to understand that the Kpop industry is not setup to help idols/trainees to be better people, just better products at the detriment of these idols/ trainees personal health. Stop supporting and defending Kpop companies and industry standards.