Why KPop Girl Groups fill more stadiums in Japan and other places than Korea's sole stadium?

    IU finally enters the Olympic Stadium in Seoul on Sep 17, 2022, when she is 1,343 years old.


    The record for the largest concert for a female act in K-O-R-E-A, up to then, is held by a Lee Jieun, whose concert in the Gymnastics Arena on Nov 24, 2019, when she was 1,340 years old, is the largest concert held by a female act originating from Korea , ever till Sep 17 of this year.


    Meanwhile,


    Kara, SNSD, Twice, and BlackPink filled Tokyo Dome.


    Twice filled the Banc of California stadium in LA, although it was a soccer stadium which had a 22,000 capacity, similar to the Gochuck (normally 27,000 but for concert purposes it has a smaller capacity.)


    I have talked enough about IU, or Lee Jieun who had the record before her. My question here is why these acts are so popular outside of Korea but had lesser presence in there.


    A fundamental question I have been asking since 2012 is the relevance of Korea in KPop.


    IU is the first 2nd Generation act to have a 2 day concert in the Olympic Stadium (only JYJ did that there and both were 1 day events which did NOT fill)


    So, arguably, IU was more popular than all of the 2nd gen acts, at least in Korea.


    And all these famous GGs who sell much more than IU can sell less tickets in K-O-R-E-A than either IU or Lee Jieun. Twice's last concert in Seoul, at Gymnastics Arena, had about 11,000/day, smaller than Lee Jieun's 14,500/day. Both had 2 days.


    It seems fewer fans in Korea are willing to spend a lot of money on female act, and even male act, and only some super-fans are spending most of the money for KPop acts ingeneral.

    Few obvious factors,

    1. Population

    2. Availability - Kpop acts in foreign locations will be rare and more in demand due to scarcity, than in Korea, where they may be taken for granted.

    3. Culture - Does Korea have a strong concert going culture. In the West, I know of many youngsters going to concerts or games, just to hangout, it is a regular cultural thing to them, irrespective of the artists, of course few artists are definitely special.

    4. Kpop itself may not be as popular in S.Korea, as the impression created about it outside Korea.


    After considering the above factors, then you can talk about individual acts.

  • AllKill VIP

    Korea lacks big modern arenas/stadiums which would have pleasant seatings, you know not really everyone want to sit very far away from stage, when there is pitch, field and running track between you and artist.


    We have here in Poland beautiful stadium for 58k seats with roof. Don't know why those dummies can't built something similar.

    Here it is used for some athlete memorial event


    PGE-Narodowy-Memorial-Skolimowskiej-fot.-m.st_.-Warszawa.jpg

    External Content www.youtube.com
    Content embedded from external sources will not be displayed without your consent.
    Through the activation of external content, you agree that personal data may be transferred to third party platforms. We have provided more information on this in our privacy policy.


    To WhyKnock 's consternation, IU wished for a concert space and Kakao has already committed to build her one.

    So maybe soon Korea will have one such venue.

    Quote from pchromo4

    Doesn't SK also have a soccer stadium that can fit 30-40k seats? I think GD had his solo concert there

    The Sang'am world cup stadium. But the local soccer fans balk because concerts ruin the lawns, so ever since GD no one has done a concert in there.


    Plus it is way outside of the city and inconvenient to get to.


    Chamshil is preferred because it is close to the city center of Gangnam

  • AllKill VIP
    Quote from bbgc

    To WhyKnock 's consternation, IU wished for a concert space and Kakao has already committed to build her one.

    So maybe soon Korea will have one such venue.

    I know that CJ is building LiveCity but it will just have 20k indoor capacity

    External Content www.youtube.com
    Content embedded from external sources will not be displayed without your consent.
    Through the activation of external content, you agree that personal data may be transferred to third party platforms. We have provided more information on this in our privacy policy.

    Quote from bartkun

    I know that CJ is building LiveCity but it will just have 20k indoor capacity

    Not about CJ - Kakao has promised another.


    I don't know about the capacity, but I think large capacities are wasted at least for music, eventually audience ends up watching on the mounted TVs and see very little of the stage itself.


    At least sports, the activity ranges across the field, but music, that is waste.

    Quote from bbgc

    Not about CJ - Kakao has promised another.


    I don't know about the capacity, but I think large capacities are wasted at least for music, eventually audience ends up watching on the mounted TVs and see very little of the stage itself.


    At least sports, the activity ranges across the field, but music, that is waste.

    Kakao's largest venue will have a capacity of around ~28k. That puts it around the same capacity as Gocheok Skydome, which is also indoors but just has poor acoustics for concerts. IMO people will still be holding concerts in Olympic Stadium because it seems there still won't be an indoor venue capable of 45-50k concert capacity.


    Kakao to build large-scale K-pop performance venue in northern Seoul
    Kakao will build a large-scale K-pop performance venue in Korea with the Seoul Metropolitan Government in northern Seoul’s Chang-dong, Dobong District. Kakao…
    koreajoongangdaily.joins.com

  • AllKill VIP
    Quote from bbgc

    Not about CJ - Kakao has promised another.


    I don't know about the capacity, but I think large capacities are wasted at least for music, eventually audience ends up watching on the mounted TVs and see very little of the stage itself.


    At least sports, the activity ranges across the field, but music, that is waste.

    Because for music purposes the stage should be similar size to basketball court. But yeah watching concerts on screens ain't that funny. It's better to be as close as you can.

    External Content www.youtube.com
    Content embedded from external sources will not be displayed without your consent.
    Through the activation of external content, you agree that personal data may be transferred to third party platforms. We have provided more information on this in our privacy policy.

    In the older days, they had something called 'Recitals', usually held in the tents or smaller lecturer halls.


    Korea didn't really begin to build sports arenas in anticipation for the 1988 olympics, and it is not until the 1990s that proper concerts began to be held.


    A lot of people are casual consumers who just watch tv, and now streaming services, and don't commit too much.


    But, yes, it appears KPop doesn't have as many dedicated fans in Korea as a lot of people suspect

    I believe such outfits were built during the Communist days so they could have bigger rallies.


    In capitalist countries, it is simply too expensive, and too many interests are involved, to build something of any size.

    Quote from killingtime1934

    she is 1,343 years old.


    Wut :pepe-magnify: I(u)nmortal

    She was apparently born during T'ang dynasty of china


    External Content youtu.be
    Content embedded from external sources will not be displayed without your consent.
    Through the activation of external content, you agree that personal data may be transferred to third party platforms. We have provided more information on this in our privacy policy.


    That aside, it is likely that like Giotto, or the French impressionist painters, she is likely to be mentioned in the same sentence with other major Kpoppers (SNSD, BigBang, BTS, EXO, BlackPink) so she is likely to become immortal in that aspect as well

    There has never been a demand for GG music in Korea beyond their title tracks. I thought this was always known. Only fans who actually know the discography are likely to visit concerts.


    GG’s capitalize by having huge TT hits and then scoring many CFs with that popularity. BGs have a more dedicated fanbase that consumes all their disco and pay to see it in con.

  • AllKill VIP
    Quote from WhyKnock

    I believe such outfits were built during the Communist days so they could have bigger rallies.


    In capitalist countries, it is simply too expensive, and too many interests are involved, to build something of any size.

    Poland isn't communist country and we built most of our big stadiums between 2000-2015

    some smaller ones like those for 12~20k are built even now,

    it's just normal that these days football/soccer clubs play in modern stadiums...

    External Content www.youtube.com
    Content embedded from external sources will not be displayed without your consent.
    Through the activation of external content, you agree that personal data may be transferred to third party platforms. We have provided more information on this in our privacy policy.

    Quote from bbgc

    Not about CJ - Kakao has promised another.


    I don't know about the capacity, but I think large capacities are wasted at least for music, eventually audience ends up watching on the mounted TVs and see very little of the stage itself.


    At least sports, the activity ranges across the field, but music, that is waste.

    Both facilities will house about 20,000 o less


    What happens is in Japan the Budokan (Judo Stadium), housing about 10,000 is the introductory stage; there are some arenas in between, and Tokyo Dome (about 50,000) is a milestone signifying that an act is now a major one. (There are a couple bigger stadiums but only truly big acts get there.)


    In Korea, the 11,000 Gymnastics Arena (also called the KSPO Dome, although everyone still calls it simply the Gymnastics) IS the milestone. There is the Gochuck, available only during winter, and then the Olympic Stadium.


    When there are more larger venues, eventually I think a culture of people attending more music events, like those attending sports games, will be established, making the effort of building larger venues worthwhile.

    Quote from pchromo4

    Kakao's largest venue will have a capacity of around ~28k. That puts it around the same capacity as Gocheok Skydome, which is also indoors but just has poor acoustics for concerts. IMO people will still be holding concerts in Olympic Stadium because it seems there still won't be an indoor venue capable of 45-50k concert capacity.


    https://koreajoongangdaily.joi…O2/20220404163256017.html

    There is simply no plot of land which is large enough to build a 50,000 indoor facility around Seoul.


    In fact, although there were talks to move the Olympic Stadium and develop its land, because it was impossible to find a proper slot of land (the land where the stadium stood is near a historical site and could not be developed at that time) it was agreed to just remodel the existing one.

    Quote from minafangirl

    This feels more like a brag then an actual question, but anyways it’s hard to say because they’ve never tried (from what I know). Maybe it’s just not possible, or they don’t want too.

    It is all about money. It costs a lot to build anything in Korea, but I do think there is a sufficient demand.

    Quote from ISaidISaid

    There has never been a demand for GG music in Korea beyond their title tracks. I thought this was always known. Only fans who actually know the discography are likely to visit concerts.


    GG’s capitalize by having huge TT hits and then scoring many CFs with that popularity. BGs have a more dedicated fanbase that consumes all their disco and pay to see it in con.

    There were some, during the days of SNSD. And a lot of acts now have built sufficient discography to run a concert with the titles and semi-titles and songs they might have sung outside of Korea.


    The game has changed. Now GGs are also album sales and less emphasis on TT hits. The CFs are dominated by the person under this post, and a few others; it has become unattractive.


    There are simply less diehard fans who will consume everything from their faves

    Well not for me, what is the point of going to the venue and still seeing on TV, because with 50000 people that is what will happen.

    Yes it is more for the immersive experience in the atmosphere, still I would like to see some of the action directly.


    So while IU fans can celebrate etc., as making Kpop history etc., I still like the IU who prefers the small venue concerts with few hundred people and there is rapport built with the performer to a greater degree.

    Quote from ISaidISaid

    There has never been a demand for GG music in Korea beyond their title tracks. I thought this was always known. Only fans who actually know the discography are likely to visit concerts.


    GG’s capitalize by having huge TT hits and then scoring many CFs with that popularity. BGs have a more dedicated fanbase that consumes all their disco and pay to see it in con.

    Untrue. There used to be very high demand for their discography until around 2012-2013. They used to chart and sell thousands of copies with all their side tracks


    However Koreans just don't enjoy concerts. In Japan even middling relevant groups can sell out big arenas and domes.

    The irrelevance of Korean Market shows its true colors when it comes to an almost absolute absence of a proper touring market (a weakness that reveals how actually poor Korean music history is, as for rule of thumb music market was build from touring and not the other way around). Crazy to think this is the sixth biggest music market, no similarity with any of the big markets, China and Japan included.


    No wonder why not a single kpop group (a genre performance-heavy) that relied solely on Korean popularity survived past its 5th year... ever. International sucess were always necessary for this genre to keep going, at least as far being a music act is concerned. The second option was, of course, ditching the music career to something that paid better. The number of 2nd gen idols who turned to be models, actors and TV show hosts is perplexing.


    But it's not like I'm expecting something different from a country that treats music as background sound for coffee shops and fill their charts with a bunch of third-tier quality ballads. I only laugh hard when international kpop stans suddenly start to think a song has quality because mighty koreans in their superior wisdom started to appreciate it.

    Quote from Icaro_Ribeiro

    The irrelevance of Korean Market shows its true colors when it comes to an almost absolute absence of a proper touring market (a weakness that reveals how actually poor Korean music history is, as for rule of thumb music market was build from touring and not the other way around). Crazy to think this is the sixth biggest music market, no similarity with any of the big markets, China and Japan included.


    No wonder why not a single kpop group (a genre performance-heavy) that relied solely on Korean popularity survived past its 5th year... ever. International sucess were always necessary for this genre to keep going, at least as far being a music act is concerned. The second option was, of course, ditching the music career to something that paid better. The number of 2nd gen idols who turned to be models, actors and TV show hosts is perplexing.


    But it's not like I'm expecting something different from a country that treats music as background sound for coffee shops and fill their charts with a bunch of third-tier quality ballads. I only laugh hard when international kpop stans suddenly start to think a song has quality because mighty koreans in their superior wisdom started to appreciate it.

    Ah ha, a soulmate to WhyKnock in knocking down Koreans.


    But have you considered that Koreans who don't care much for "performance-heavy" genres, might be actually be more appreciative of music itself, than those who need a surfeit of MVs, costumes and choreography done to gibberish lyrics?


    Anyway "De gustibus non est disputandum"

    Quote from Icaro_Ribeiro

    No wonder why not a single kpop group (a genre performance-heavy) that relied solely on Korean popularity survived past its 5th year... ever. International sucess were always necessary for this genre to keep going, at least as far being a music act is concerned.

    What? Sistar finished their 7-year contract and as far as I know, they rarely toured even in SK. And having international success is not really a guarantee for longevity for girl groups in general, just look at Kara despite their Japan success.

    Quote from Icaro_Ribeiro

    The irrelevance of Korean Market shows its true colors when it comes to an almost absolute absence of a proper touring market (a weakness that reveals how actually poor Korean music history is, as for rule of thumb music market was build from touring and not the other way around). Crazy to think this is the sixth biggest music market, no similarity with any of the big markets, China and Japan included.


    No wonder why not a single kpop group (a genre performance-heavy) that relied solely on Korean popularity survived past its 5th year... ever. International sucess were always necessary for this genre to keep going, at least as far being a music act is concerned. The second option was, of course, ditching the music career to something that paid better. The number of 2nd gen idols who turned to be models, actors and TV show hosts is perplexing.


    But it's not like I'm expecting something different from a country that treats music as background sound for coffee shops and fill their charts with a bunch of third-tier quality ballads. I only laugh hard when international kpop stans suddenly start to think a song has quality because mighty koreans in their superior wisdom started to appreciate it.

    IU attempted a couple national tours, in 2012 and 2014 (in smaller venues), but that was it. She still tries to go to a couple provincial cities, the only major non-trot act in Korean Pop (she is not KPop) who continues to do that.


    To the best of my knowledge, other than trot acts, Akmu is the only act which used to do a kind of a 'national tour'. I don't know how they will do post-covid. Psy is doing his first national tour this year, although he did travel around college campuses all over South Korea for many years.


    The cold truth is 1) there is not sufficient demand for a national tour in Korea and 2) there are not too many suitable venues outside of Seoul. The owner of the Shinsaegae department chain (who is also the ex-husband of the actress Ko Hyunjung, but better known as a grandson of the founder of Samsung(thru his daughter), is building an indoor baseball stadium/perf arena in Incheon, but it is also near Seoul.


    Plus the few remaining venues outside of Seoul are contested by the fans of the local teams, who complain all the time.


    KPop as we know it began from the shows played by local musicians to entertain the US troops after the American bands which used to play for the soldiers were sent to Vietnam in the 1960s. The coffee shop variety actually almost died in around 2010, and only people like IU, Akmu and Bol4 are continuing it. Trot has filled that gap for older Koreans.

    Quote from Icaro_Ribeiro

    I already answer this question in my own post lol

    SISTAR relied heavily on Korean popularity and lasted past 5 years.


    KARA members didn't abandon their group for more lucrative careers, they had issues with DSP that were unrelated to their Japanese success.


    Not sure what you answered except proving your comment doesn't reflect reality.

    Quote from bbgc

    But have you considered that Koreans who don't care much for "performance-heavy" genres, might be actually be more appreciative of music itself, than those who need a surfeit of MVs, costumes and choreography done to gibberish lyrics?

    Nope, because performance is both the raw and ultimate form appreciation of the music as an art medium


    Remember music was originally designed to be played LIVE, to public. Recorded music was a way to make music accessible, as it's not possible for an artist to live only to make concerts


    Make no mistake, Koreans are as indifferent to music as its possible to be.

    Quote from WhyKnock

    IU attempted a couple national tours, in 2012 and 2014 (in smaller venues), but that was it. She still tries to go to a couple provincial cities, the only major non-trot act in Korean Pop (she is not KPop) who continues to do that.

    IU did a national tour as recently as 2019.

    Quote from pchromo4

    SISTAR relied heavily on Korean popularity and lasted past 5 years.


    KARA members didn't abandon their group for more lucrative careers, they had issues with DSP that were unrelated to their Japanese success.


    Not sure what you answered except proving your comment doesn't reflect reality.

    You probably lack reading skills so I will quote myself:


    Quote

    International sucess were always necessary for this genre to keep going, at least as far being a music act is concerned.


    The second option was, of course, ditching the music career to something that paid better. The number of 2nd gen idols who turned to be models, actors and TV show hosts is perplexing.


    Which was precisely what Sistar have done. Remember a girlgroup called Miss A? I will forgive you if you don't, nobody remember them anyway.

    Quote from Icaro_Ribeiro

    Nope, because performance is both the raw and ultimate form appreciation of the music as an art medium


    Remember music was originally designed to be played LIVE, to public. Recorded music was a way to make music accessible, as it's not possible for an artist to live only to make concerts


    Make no mistake, Koreans are as indifferent to music as its possible to be.

    "performance" - vocal/instrumental live - is music, sure

    "performance" - dance/costumes/stage etc. is peripheral to music.


    K-pop is dominated and defined by the second type of performance. The first is increasingly ignored.

    Quote from Icaro_Ribeiro

    You probably lack reading skills so I will quote myself:



    Which was precisely what Sistar have done. Remember a girlgroup called Miss A? I will forgive you if you don't, nobody remember them anyway.

    I read carefully - can you? Why did you cut out your previous sentence claiming no kpop group that relied on Korean popularity lasted more than 5 years... ever? If you want to make a universal claim, be ready to back it up.

    Quote from bbgc

    Ah ha, a soulmate to WhyKnock in knocking down Koreans.


    But have you considered that Koreans who don't care much for "performance-heavy" genres, might be actually be more appreciative of music itself, than those who need a surfeit of MVs, costumes and choreography done to gibberish lyrics?


    Anyway "De gustibus non est disputandum"

    They are increasingly turning into Trot now. As I have said a few times, 'Trot' in Korea is a mish-mash of Japanese enka, easy listening genre, sometimes ballad, rock, traditional Korean themes and a host of other musical elements which are palatable for older generation.

  • This thread contains 25 more posts that have been hidden for guests, please register yourself or login to continue reading.

Participate now!

Don’t have an account yet? Register yourself now and be a part of our community!

Register Yourself Login