Why do 4th gen bgs not have any song that's popular outside of their fandom ?

    There's several successful 4th gen boy groups (Enhypen, Stray kids, Treasure, TXT, Ateez...), but none of them are really popular outside of their fandom. Some songs may get viral on tiktok but they do not have any real impact beyond that.


    During 3rd gen, Exo and BTS had several hits that any kpop fan knew (monster, growl, call me baby, overdose, fire, bs&t, i need u, spring day) and other groups occasionally had hits like ikon, winner and btob.


    I could say the same about 2nd gen with bigbang, 2pm, shinee, suju...

    They all had songs that were not just popular within their fandom but also outside.


    So why is their no 4th gen boy group that succeeded at that ?

    We could say the gp doesn't care about kpop anymore but it's not true because newly debuted 4th gen ggs like Aespa and Ive had hits (nl, eleven, love dive).

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    Korean GP isn't the only group of people outside 4th gen boygroups' fandoms.


    And God's Menu has over 180M streams on Spotify and over 325M on YouTube that I doubt It's only their fans noticing the song and streaming, otherwise all their songs would be doing these numbers since earlier in their rookie years and wouldn't be such a game changer in their career.

    general public don't care about boygroups anymore

    Cause 4th gen music quality is in a lower level than 2nd and 3rd gen used to be

    you're looking at korea only. outside of it, it's not as severe as you make it out to be. Many kpop fans know lovesong, blue hour, gods menu, poloroid love, fever, darari and most of them are newer groups so maybe they'll have a song bigger than that. If you look at youtube and spotify, most 4th gen bgs are actually doing similar or better than most 3rd gen boygroups

    People using GP as an excuse lol. NO ONE cares about bg music anymore and that includes internationals. Bg stans just can’t come to terms with the fact that their fave‘s music sucks

    Quote from Seared Casserole of Venison (331)

    Korean GP isn't the only group of people outside 4th gen boygroups' fandoms.


    And God's Menu has over 180M streams on Spotify and over 325M on YouTube that I doubt It's only their fans noticing the song and streaming, otherwise all their songs would be doing these numbers since earlier in their rookie years and wouldn't be such a game changer in their career.

    I'm aware of that, and I'm not only talking about the korean gp. But it's not like there was a 4th gen bg song that every kpop fan knew and had a huge impact within the kpop community, it's mostly within the fandom and casual listeners.


    I never stanned exo, nor was I a casual listener but I would probably be able to sing more than a line or two of their popular songs.


    Gods menu is nowhere near the impact of the other hits of 3rd gen bgs.

    God's Menu is an exception tbh. It changed the trajectory of SKZ's career dramatically and it's still doing well to this day. It's also different because it didn't go viral as a tiktok sound, but various parts of the song went viral at around the same time on several platforms, not just on tiktok

    Quote from OP

    I'm aware of that, and I'm not only talking about the korean gp. But it's not like there was a 4th gen bg song that every kpop fan knew and had a huge impact within the kpop community, it's mostly within the fandom and casual listeners.


    I never stanned exo, nor was I a casual listener but I would probably be able to sing more than a line or two of their popular songs.


    Gods menu is nowhere near the impact of the other hits of 3rd gen bgs.

    Within the K-pop community, I must say I disagree with you.


    It's a popular K-pop hit. As I said, It's so popular that It put Stray Kids were they are today. They were able to turn a lot of non-fans into their fans and creating a solid base of stans and casuals within this community.


    Their most popular track's streams aren't far from their female contraparts internationally. And they actually have a bigger monthly listeners peak than any of them to this date.

    how do you expect “GP” to find these songs? they are completely promoted to fans and not general audiences. they don’t get playlisting on major playlists, or get pushed to radio. these groups barely even do TV promo. so how would GP even know of them?

    Quote from OP

    I'm aware of that, and I'm not only talking about the korean gp. But it's not like there was a 4th gen bg song that every kpop fan knew and had a huge impact within the kpop community, it's mostly within the fandom and casual listeners.


    I never stanned exo, nor was I a casual listener but I would probably be able to sing more than a line or two of their popular songs.


    Gods menu is nowhere near the impact of the other hits of 3rd gen bgs.

    then you're either lying or just have tunnel vision for 3rd gen groups lmao God's Menu was EVERYWHERE in 2020 and I'm saying this without bias.


    btw skz are the only kpop group in history ever to double their sales with a repackage album—In Life—and that was thanks to God's Menu

    God´s menu is the only song i could think of.... :whatb:

    i think you are right

    Quote from Baked Saffron Rabbit (14)

    then you're either lying or just have tunnel vision for 3rd gen groups lmao God's Menu was EVERYWHERE in 2020 and I'm saying this without bias.


    btw skz are the only kpop group in history ever to double their sales with a repackage album—In Life—and that was thanks to God's Menu

    I'm one of these people who stanned them in 2020, because God's Menu appeared in my radar, every K-pop space was talking about it viciously and I gave a chance to their music.

    Quote from Slow-Cooked Parsnip & Pear Yak (637)

    you're looking at korea only. outside of it, it's not as severe as you make it out to be. Many kpop fans know lovesong, blue hour, gods menu, poloroid love, fever, darari and most of them are newer groups so maybe they'll have a song bigger than that. If you look at youtube and spotify, most 4th gen bgs are actually doing similar or better than most 3rd gen boygroups

    I don't think its fair to compare 3rd and 4th gen's Spotify and YouTube views when mass streaming wasn't a thing at the beginning of 3rd gen and the kpop fandom grew dramatically these past few years. Besides that I'm not talking about numbers and I'm not denying 4th gen bg's success, their songs are just not as impactful.

    Quote from OP

    I don't think its fair to compare 3rd and 4th gen's Spotify and YouTube views when mass streaming wasn't a thing at the beginning of 3rd gen and the kpop fandom grew dramatically these past few years. Besides that I'm not talking about numbers and I'm not denying 4th gen bg's success, their songs are just not as impactful.

    so a song is impactful only when you say it is?


    I think you should accept there is an exception to your claims

    Op is acting like the whole kpop community wasn't crazy over gods menu, fever, polaroid love etc...

    in SK yes, but globally bgs are more popular

    Quote from Seared Casserole of Venison (331)

    Korean GP isn't the only group of people outside 4th gen boygroups' fandoms.


    And God's Menu has over 180M streams on Spotify and over 325M on YouTube that I doubt It's only their fans noticing the song and streaming, otherwise all their songs would be doing these numbers since earlier in their rookie years and wouldn't be such a game changer in their career.

    Lol you are lying. I never heard of that song ever. Back then when I wasn’t a kpop fans, I knew the existence of ring ding dong, sorry sorry, growl etc. I can’t even tell how god menu’s sounds like

    Quote from Deep-Fried Sour Ostrich (175)

    Op is acting like the whole kpop community wasn't crazy over gods menu, fever, polaroid love etc...

    everyone here trying to misunderstand OP

    you can't go to a random kpop fan & ask them to sing or even hum any of those songs. 70% chance they have no idea what songs those are ( even if they might have heard them in the passing).

    but you can go to a random kpop fan & ask them to hum a hit of a 3rd gen bg and there would be a very big chance, even if they hate the group, that they'll be able to do that.


    there's a huge difference between 3rd gen & 4th gen bgs hits and even between those songs you said & 4th gen ggs hits.

    Quote from Stir-Fried Mint Quail (209)

    People using GP as an excuse lol. NO ONE cares about bg music anymore and that includes internationals. Bg stans just can’t come to terms with the fact that their fave‘s music sucks

    their sales and Spotify stream: I’m not here bb, I’m just an illusion


    inb4 “ stream on Spotify don’t count for international stuff! “

    :pepe-shrug:

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    Flop BGs are doing fine, no matter how many times people try and undermine them because they don’t have a hit in Korea.


    don’t know why people are so hell bent on bringing this up every.single.day.

    Quote from Dry-Roasted Asparagus Mammoth (31)

    Lol you are lying. I never heard of that song ever. Back then when I wasn’t a kpop fans, I knew the existence of ring ding dong, sorry sorry, growl etc. I can’t even tell how god menu’s sounds like

    No, I'm not and I have God's Menu numbers and Stray Kids career to back up my claims. You do not represent the whole K-pop community. You know that, right?


    I don't know or remember how It sounds like a lot of songs considered popular, but I don't go out there saying they aren't. I know me is just me.

    Quote from Deep-Fried Sour Ostrich (175)

    Op is acting like the whole kpop community wasn't crazy over gods menu, fever, polaroid love etc...

    no offense but Fever and Polaroid Love shouldn't be compared to God's Menu


    here comes in the difference I was talking about earlier; GM went viral for itself and it didn't depend on tiktok only (Felix's part everywhere, Changbin and Han's rap on Twitter, the "ne sonim" part on Twitter, Hyunjin's fancam on tiktok, etc.), while the others went viral as tiktok sounds.


    As much as Fever did a lot for Enhypen's careers, I already don't see it being talked about that much by non-fans.

    The fact you didn't mention TXT's Anti-Romantic also says a lot, it was the first 4th gen bg song to go really viral as a tiktok sound and was considered the ultimate tiktok viral kpop bside for a while. That song increased TXT's popularity quite a bit, but I don't see non-fans talking about it a lot anymore either.


    But you can observe a similar difference between God's Menu and Christmas EveL. (A bit, at least.) Christmas EveL went viral, as a tiktok challenge. It smashed all then existing 4th gen tiktok records, got Stray Kids a lot of new fans, their monthly listeners were increasing like crazy even after Christmas had passed, etc. You get it. But while I see people talking about it still, it still doesn't come close to God's Menu in that aspect. (I have to note here: unlike the other 4th gen viral songs mentioned here, Christmas EveL is very explicitly seasonal, so it was bound to slow down by February/March because the average person listens to Christmas songs from November to January)

    Everyone lives in a bubble here. I never heard anti-romantic on tiktok but I can say that I heard polaroid love and darari been used so much on tiktok and ig story too that it annoys me everytime anyone used those songs. Anti-romantic and god’s menu? Never heard of them

    Quote from Fire-Grilled Casserole of Duck (127)

    everyone here trying to misunderstand OP

    you can't go to a random kpop fan & ask them to sing or even hum any of those songs. 70% chance they have no idea what songs those are ( even if they might have heard them in the passing).

    but you can go to a random kpop fan & ask them to hum a hit of a 3rd gen bg and there would be a very big chance, even if they hate the group, that they'll be able to do that.


    there's a huge difference between 3rd gen & 4th gen bgs hits and even between those songs you said & 4th gen ggs hits.

    You tend to forget that most kpop fans which have joined the fanbase have been brought in by bts during the last few years. That means they're new kpop stans, new stans which focus on newer music. Do you know how often I see discourses on different platforms about people saying they don't know such big hits like bang bang,per example? And yet, those same people know songs like...petter patter panner by newly debutes group ab7281life..


    I can tell you that songs like fever and gods menu will be as easily recognized as 3rd gen hits in the kpop community

    What are you even talking about? Why does it matter if songs went viral through tiktok or not? Sorry but, the biggest kpop song from last year went viral thanks to tiktok - money by Lisa. It doesn't matter how a song went viral, what matters is longevity,interest beyond the viral moment, hype and many other factors. Fever has it all.


    You claim txt's anti-romantic as a valid example of a song going viral but you don't want to claim fever which did better than anti romantic on every platform...

    Quote from Deep-Fried Sour Ostrich (175)

    What are you even talking about? Why does it matter if songs went viral through tiktok or not? Sorry but, the biggest kpop song from last year went viral thanks to tiktok - money by Lisa. It doesn't matter how a song went viral, what matters is longevity,interest beyond the viral moment, hype and many other factors. Fever has it all.


    You claim txt's anti-romantic as a valid example of a song going viral but you don't want to claim fever which did better than anti romantic on every platform...

    Who cares about Lisa????? This thread is about 4TH GEN BOY GROUPS. Perhaps you haven't noticed, but she's neither 4th gen, nor a boy, nor a group...And what I said, I said with specifically 4TH GEN BOY GROUPS in mind.


    I don't know where you got that from, engene, that I don't accept Fever as viral. I do. I said the exact same thing about that song and Anti-Romantic: did a lot for the careers of their respective groups, but I don't see them being talked about nearly as much nowadays.


    It does matter where and how a song goes viral (for 4TH GEN BOY GROUPS). Multi-platform virality ensures that people who don't use Tiktok will get accidentally left out with a much, much lower chance. (This is less of a problem for idols as big as Lisa, that's why Money was able to go that viral only depending on Tiktok.) The entire song going viral obviously means more interest. Not being connected to a trend grants better longevity (exceptions are the very top groups, they don't necessarily need this)

    You don't make sense. Who talks about songs? People just listen to them. And I don't see people talking about God's Menu either, your experience doesn't represent everyone.

    Quote from Basted Rice & Mammoth (266)

    You don't make sense. Who talks about songs? People just listen to them. And I don't see people talking about God's Menu either, your experience doesn't represent everyone.

    "who talks about songs" you come to akp to listen to music?


    Please acquire basic reading comprehension skills before saying I'm not making sense lol

    Quote from Baked Saffron Rabbit (14)

    Who cares about Lisa????? This thread is about 4TH GEN BOY GROUPS. Perhaps you haven't noticed, but she's neither 4th gen, nor a boy, nor a group...And what I said, I said with specifically 4TH GEN BOY GROUPS in mind.


    I don't know where you got that from, engene, that I don't accept Fever as viral. I do. I said the exact same thing about that song and Anti-Romantic: did a lot for the careers of their respective groups, but I don't see them being talked about nearly as much nowadays.


    It does matter where and how a song goes viral (for 4TH GEN BOY GROUPS). Multi-platform virality ensures that people who don't use Tiktok will get accidentally left out with a much, much lower chance. (This is less of a problem for idols as big as Lisa, that's why Money was able to go that viral only depending on Tiktok.) The entire song going viral obviously means more interest. Not being connected to a trend grants better longevity (exceptions are the very top groups, they don't necessarily need this)

    Come on now, it doesn't matter if Lisa is a 4th gen or not. The example is valid. Rose also is a big star yet her song literally flopped. Meanwhile,lisa's thrived. That means tiktok's impact is HUGE.


    Most of those viral songs nowadays have gone viral through tiktok,both of kpop stars and western ones. You trying to underestimate enhypen won't change how big fever was

    Quote from Fire-Grilled Casserole of Duck (127)

    everyone here trying to misunderstand OP

    you can't go to a random kpop fan & ask them to sing or even hum any of those songs. 70% chance they have no idea what songs those are ( even if they might have heard them in the passing).

    but you can go to a random kpop fan & ask them to hum a hit of a 3rd gen bg and there would be a very big chance, even if they hate the group, that they'll be able to do that.


    there's a huge difference between 3rd gen & 4th gen bgs hits and even between those songs you said & 4th gen ggs hits.

    well there's more kpop fans now in comparison with back then

    Quote from Baked Saffron Rabbit (14)

    Who cares about Lisa????? This thread is about 4TH GEN BOY GROUPS. Perhaps you haven't noticed, but she's neither 4th gen, nor a boy, nor a group...And what I said, I said with specifically 4TH GEN BOY GROUPS in mind.


    I don't know where you got that from, engene, that I don't accept Fever as viral. I do. I said the exact same thing about that song and Anti-Romantic: did a lot for the careers of their respective groups, but I don't see them being talked about nearly as much nowadays.


    It does matter where and how a song goes viral (for 4TH GEN BOY GROUPS). Multi-platform virality ensures that people who don't use Tiktok will get accidentally left out with a much, much lower chance. (This is less of a problem for idols as big as Lisa, that's why Money was able to go that viral only depending on Tiktok.) The entire song going viral obviously means more interest. Not being connected to a trend grants better longevity (exceptions are the very top groups, they don't necessarily need this)

    who cares

    stop crying

    People consume music much differently than they did in 2nd and early 3rd Gen, but that never gets talked about in these discussions. The landscape is so fragmented that people consume in many different ways compared to what happened in 2010 or 2012 or even 2015, yet no one seems to want to make that adjustment.


    I’m not a fan of any of these groups and I don’t even like most of these songs, but I could probably hum a little bit or sing a chorus on God’s Menu, Darari, Anti-Romantic or Polaroid Love just by hearing them so much on TikTok or Twt, particularly when other idols are doing them as challenges or in fancalls or whatever that gets shared.

    As someone who doesn't care about boy groups I will give my two cents.


    Out of all 4th gen groups, God's menu definitely had an impact. I completely ignored it when it first came out but I happened to listen to it by chance on YouTube and nearly became a Stray Kidz fan because of it, but (as a girl group stan old habits die hard and I just couldn't maintain any interest beyond that. There were too many members and the one that actually caught my eye ending up in a scandal so I just forgot about them).


    The next one is TXT. Anti-romantic had a lot of impact (I found it on tiktok). I still don't actually stan TXT, but anti-romantic made me casual listener.


    The rest? I heard Dadari on tiktok also but I had no idea it was actually a song by a Kpop group let alone Treasure. Finding that out was a bit of a surprise. Even then, it didn't make me interested in Treasure or made me curious about looking up the song.


    Fever I actually discovered because of Kpop random dance videos on YouTube. It was an okay song, but beyond that, I didn't feel any interest toward Enhypen or the song.

    Quote from Baked Saffron Rabbit (14)

    "who talks about songs" you come to akp to listen to music?


    Please acquire basic reading comprehension skills before saying I'm not making sense lol

    Akp has 100 active people simultaneously on average and most of them don't post, why are you using it as a standard? Be serious. I'm talking about twitter and other relevant sites. You still don't make sense. Fever is very stable after more than a year and gains more streams than so-called hits Anti-Romantic, Lovesong and Thunderous even though they were released later. Drunk-Dazed too except Thunderous. Polaroid Love is also stable af.

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    Your statement is stupid and just got disproved. Who tf talks about songs they like every day? Besides, like I said, I don't see anyone talking about God's Menu, you pulled that outta your ass.

    Quote from Basted Rice & Mammoth (266)

    Akp has 100 active people simultaneously on average and most of them don't post, why are you using it as a standard? Be serious. I'm talking about twitter and other relevant sites. You still don't make sense. Fever is very stable after more than a year and gains more streams than so-called hits Anti-Romantic, Lovesong and Thunderous even though they were released later. Drunk-Dazed too except Thunderous. Polaroid Love is also stable af.

    FUdmHyCWAAAvedz?format=png&name=900x900

    FUdmFdqXEAYNiKD?format=png&name=900x900

    Your statement is stupid and just got disproved. Who tf talks about songs they like every day? Besides, like I said, I don't see anyone talking about God's Menu, you pulled that outta your ass.

    You're still not making sense.


    I'm NOT using Allkpop as a standard. I used it as an example.


    You look ridiculous trying to deny the existence...of the kpop community itself? People DO talk about songs, and under this I include edits, sharing, etc. everything that has an equivalent role to traditional word of mouth way to convey something about a particular song and spread that statement.


    I don't know why you're bringing streams into this when I was using the frequency of being mentioned in "discussions" by kpop fans as a metric.

    I could write a few paragraphs on the topic of streams in relation to virality too, but I won't waste my time on you again, since you want to be contrarian for the sake of being contrarian, and don't even bother to actually read the things I say. (Otherwise you wouldn't hilariously misinterpret every sentence of mine.)


    Also, you don't see anyone talking about songs that don't fit your narrative because you're an engene and clearly allergic to acknowledging other groups.

    Quote from Deep-Fried Sour Ostrich (175)

    Come on now, it doesn't matter if Lisa is a 4th gen or not.

    I just explained why it does. None of the 4th gen groups anywhere near as established as Blackpink. She's bound to have massive advantage over them.


    Indeed Lisa's solo ended up being more successful thanks to having a more tiktok-friendly soundscape.


    But as I've said several times, you have to take the elephant in the room into consideration: her status. Blackpink is the biggest global girl group, their releases are rare, and I think it's safe to say Lisa has more casual interest than 2/4 of BP. Money was bound to get attention either way. But unlike Rosé's songs, Money was fit for tiktok and was able to find a footing there, before the attention on Lisa dwindled away.


    Quote from Deep-Fried Sour Ostrich (175)

    Most of those viral songs nowadays have gone viral through tiktok,both of kpop stars and western ones. You trying to underestimate enhypen won't change how big fever was

    Where am I underestimating your faves, engene? I acknowledged that the song did a lot for the group's careers.

    There's no underestimation. That's just what what happens when you're not Lisa.

    Standard or example, it's the same. Allkpop is a dead site and shouldn't be used as an example. The number of people talking about songs is a very biased point since you can't see the majority of people, you only see posts within your circle of interests. Streams are an objective metric where your bias doesn't come into play and I showed you that you're wrong. I understand everything you said, it's the usual "my faves are the most relevant, yours are not" bs. You're a hardcore stay and always jump people who say the truth and don't kiss your faves' asses.

    The last argument is hilarious considering that you're a hardcore stay as mentioned above and can't contend for the most objective and all-knowing person title. I'm not allergic to acknowledging anyone but I'm not gonna put up with explicit lies when facts say otherwise.

    Quote from Basted Rice & Mammoth (266)

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